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Forum Messages Posted by peacetrain

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Thread: Ataturk airport

1041.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 02:41 pm

Also, have you tried placing an Ad on www.mymerhaba.com ?

Perhaps you could consider a caretaking post in one of the international schools or some kind of work at one of the multi national HQs . . . in the hospitality/site maintenance depts.

Good luck anyway.



Thread: Agnosticism: A Religion

1042.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 02:12 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

Exactly, thus it is not agnosticism that constitutes a religion but it may take the form of a philosophical concept within a religion.



Does this preclude your responding to some of the questions?



Thread: Atheism : Some Questions

1043.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 02:06 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

I'd gladly answer your post if it weren't for the fear of misunderstanding your joke again. Have I assumed correctly this time that the parallel between atheism and religion is on purpose?



Well it sort of began that way. I guess it's a little tongue in cheek with a serious twist. I learned some things whilst busying myself with this thread.

The UK governments Education Dept. want teachers to develop children's ability to ask questions (from age 5) and in RE, for children to ask ultimate questions. I guess this develops an enquiring mind. (I didn't just learn this btw )

I ask some light hearted questions, but in the hope that what will follow is an in depth discussion. You know how threads here take on a life of their own.

Be clear . . . my intention is not cynicism (oh I just had an idea for a new thread . . . ok don't worry, the feeling came and went), it's digging for grass roots knowledge with a light hearted and genial gardening fork. I like the idea of a fork rather than a spade . . . spades can do a lot of damage



Thread: Agnosticism: A Religion

1044.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 01:49 pm

"... agnostic theists, who identify themselves as both agnostics in the original sense and followers of a particular religion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism



Thread: Agnosticism: A Religion

1045.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 01:33 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

I'm not 100% sure PT but to my knowledge agnosticism is a philosophical concept rather than religion.



You haven't got my point, or possibly my sense of humour. I know it's an acquired taste

Actually on my www travels I'm sure I saw a link to Christian Agnostics . . . honestly!



Thread: Atheism : Some Questions

1046.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 01:30 pm

Atheists appear to have their 'sects' too! :

*Implicit and explicit atheism

*Weak and strong atheism

*Pragmatic atheism

*Theoretical atheism

*State atheism

Even atheism doesn't escape interpretation or misinterpretation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism (This page is by no means empty btw I was too lazy to look a more authoritative source so 'whistle stop wiki' will have to suffice)

Some points to discuss:

a) Do atheists think they have the moral high ground?
b) What drives an athiest?
c) Any atheist jokes or cartoons out there?
d) Is there such a thing as an enlightened atheist?
e) Is there such a thing as an 'evangelical' atheist?
f) Do atheists giving religion and God/s too much attention?
g) What are the rituals and traditions/customs of an atheist?
h) If there was no God (or should that be 'If there was no no God' ?, how would an atheist spend his/her time?
i) Was atheism founded by a man or a woman?
j) Do atheists use the term "Oh my God" (OMG) and if so, why?
k} Is there a difference between the culture and the belief system of an atheist?
l} If an atheist doesn't have a place of worship is the saying "my body is my temple" true for him/her?


Can anyone think of any more ultimate questions about atheists?

Please complete the following sentence:

'If a Christian is known as a Bible Thumper an Atheist is known as a ...'
(no offense intended toward Christians, I simply couldn't think of any other nicks in other faiths)

Feel free to be atheistist but keep it civilised



Thread: Agnosticism: A Religion

1047.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 12:07 pm


Let's make a little bit of history folks.

I'll kick off.

The Denominations

Strong agnosticism (also called hard agnosticism, closed agnosticism, strict agnosticism, absolute agnosticism)—the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of an omnipotent God and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience.

Mild agnosticism (also called weak agnosticism, soft agnosticism, open agnosticism, empirical agnosticism, temporal agnosticism)—the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available.

Apathetic agnosticism (also called Pragmatic agnosticism)—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, but since any God or gods that may exist appear unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway.

Agnostic theism (also called religious agnosticism)—the view of those who do not claim to know existence of God or gods, but still believe in such an existence. (See Knowledge vs. Beliefs)

Agnostic atheism—the view of those who do not know of the existence or nonexistence of God or gods, and do not believe in them.[7]

Ignosticism—the view that a coherent definition of God must be put forward before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition isn't coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of God is meaningless or empirically untestable. A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept 'God exists' as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Now, all you Agnostics out there, come on out of the closet! Be brave, have FAITH in your own religion and share:

a) traditions
b) rituals
c) scriptures (I heard a rumour these may vary from day to day)
d) place of 'worship'
e) symbols
f) commandments
g) Anything else I can't think of

And all you non-Agnostics (henceforth known as Agnons), what interesting or controversial facets of Agnosticism have you heard about.

All you Atheists, please don't be angry . . . your own thread is on it's way (well I mean your own special thread)












Thread: Cats

1048.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2008 Wed 11:00 am

They're more clever than the dogs in Istanbul. I remember seeing cats on a chilly morning at Topkapı Palace. They were sat on the floodlights after they had been turned off . . . they were nice and warm ;}.

I remember being at Fatih Camii one evening and fresh meat had been put out for the cats. There must have been at least 40 cats there.

But the dogs of Sultanahmet are quite tuneful. I remember sitting on a bench in the Hippodrome when the Call to Prayer began. Suddenly an old dog, sat nearby, began to join in . . . what a howler



Thread: What is wrong with Muslims?

1049.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 08 Jul 2008 Tue 10:49 pm

Quoting teaschip:

If you demand change, you have the responsiblity to speak out.



I agree and they should be allowed to choose when and where they wish their voice to be heard.

Quoting teaschip:


It's the manner in which you speak out and deliver the message that people tend to struggle with.



Exactly.

Quoting teaschip:



If your more comfortable signing a petition rather than joining a ralley you are still contributing to the end result.



And I think a vast number of people do this (sorry, no figures to hand )



Thread: What is wrong with Muslims?

1050.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 08 Jul 2008 Tue 09:53 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting peacetrain:

Can anyone direct me to the last bus leaving for Utopia?


lol

however, if we cannot have a civilized conversation about the problems with today's islam, how can we say that utopia is an abstract idea anyway? so few muslims have been able to maturely converse about the violence and other problems with their religion, it's a shame.



I think you have not understood the gist of my post that you have taken that quote from and my reference to Utopia was a statement about my own idealism.

I think if you read DK's post (#15 I think) you may understand a little better why some people silently or otherwise ( ) don't agree with your approach so don't wish to get into such a discussion with you.

Of course there have been people who disagree with you who don't react to a flame in a mature or civilised way but there are several that do, even though they are sorely tested at times.

Quoting catwoman:


Simply, the majority - silently or not - condones the voice of increasingly growing numbers of extremists.
...
Ed Husein who are progressive, thoughtful and create a vision of islam that we can all respect and love, but their lives are threatened in the muslim community. The majority of muslims hate them... although many - silently - also feel relieved to hear their voices.



I'm confused now. Does a Muslims silence mean he/she is:

a) pro violent extremism by people who believe they are Muslims
b) pro people who speak out against (a)
c) not bothered either way
d) determined to get drawn into a flame row
e) agreeing with some of a to d
f) agreeing with none of a to e
g) preserving his/her right to discuss such issues when and where they see fit.
h) too busy trying to grasp mind reading techniques
i) too busy trying to determine how long a piece of string is
j) wondering: Would society as we know it be different if Archimedes had been averse to bathing?

The permutations are endless.

Is there a credible, scientifically tested school of thought that proves 'silence' means agreement or disagreement with an issue? Do I have to be able to read the minds of the 'silent' majority/minority/element? Or can I simply use it in an effort to make a point of view watertight? I've practised it above btw .

This 'silence' is a tricky little blighter

N.B. 'you' is meant generally.

That's all thanks.



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