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"..açtığında.."
(34 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4
1.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 07:02 pm

I can't figure out why the second sentence is composed the way it is..

(a guy visits a friend who is ill)
- "Hasta olduğumu biliyor muydun?"
- "Hayır, ev sahibin kapıyı açtığında söyledi."

I guess the sentence means "The house owner who opened the door told it". But what is "-da" doing at the end of açtığında?? Is this a situation where the locative should be used, like "when he was [standing there and] opening the door"?
I'm racking my brain here and I just can't see it..

2.       Ayla
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 07:25 pm

I'll leave the grammatical explanations to the experts but:
"açtığında" means "when s/he opened"
so:
"ev sahibin kapıyı açtığında söyledi"=
your house owner said it when s/he opened the door

3.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 07:28 pm

Quoting Ayla:

I'll leave the grammatical explanations to the experts but:
"açtığında" means "when he opened"



Thank you Ayla
Using "when" instead of "who" (like I did) does make things clearer..

4.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 07:34 pm

Quoting Ayla:

I'll leave the grammatical explanations to the experts but:
"açtığında" means "when s/he opened"
so:
"ev sahibin kapıyı açtığında söyledi"=
your house owner said it when s/he opened the door



Duvar-da --> on the wall.
Kutu-da --> in the box.
Saat beş-te --> at 5 o'clock.
Masa-da --> On the table.
Televizyon-da --> On tv
Ev-de --> in the house or at home
çocukluğum-da --> when I was a kid
açtığın-da --> when he opened the door
bura-da --> here
şura-da / ora-da --> there
bun-da --> at/on/in etc this
şun-da --> at/on/in etc that
on-da --> (double meaning) at ten o'clock or at/on/in etc that
yer-de --> on the ground
kim-de --> who has ...? or on/at/in etc who ?
nere-de --> where
saat kaç-ta --> at what time ....?
geldiğin-de --> when he came.
kapı-da --> at the door or on the door
etc etc etc


PS: Please don't confuse -de/-te/-da with de (alone and separate)

5.       nur1
427 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 07:40 pm

Quoting Elisa:

I can't figure out why the second sentence is composed the way it is..

(a guy visits a friend who is ill)
- "Hasta olduğumu biliyor muydun?"
- "Hayır, ev sahibin kapıyı açtığında söyledi."

I guess the sentence means "The house owner who opened the door told it". But what is "-da" doing at the end of açtığında?? Is this a situation where the locative should be used, like "when he was [standing there and] opening the door"?
I'm racking my brain here and I just can't see it..


- "Hasta olduğumu biliyor muydun?"
- "Hayır, ev sahibin kapıyı açtığında söyledi."
1. did you know i was sick?
2. no, your house's owner tald me when he/she opened the door.

açtığınDA; when he/she opened
for example;
"actigin" kutu; the box which you opened
kutuyu "actigin"da"; "when" you opened the box
bana "geldigin" gun; the day you came to me
bana geldigin"de"; when you come to me;

6.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 07:50 pm

Quoting nur1:



Thanks a lot nur1, it's clear now!

7.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 08:03 pm

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

....
saat kaç-ta --> at what time ....?
geldiğin-de --> when he came.
kapı-da --> at the door or on the door
etc etc etc


PS: Please don't confuse -de/-te/-da with de (alone and separate)



I know about de/da and when it's used
I never encountered it with a participle though, hence my confusion. Thanks once again

8.       nur1
427 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 08:11 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting nur1:



Thanks a lot nur1, it's clear now!


your welcome!

9.       natiypuspi
436 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 08:41 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

....
saat kaç-ta --> at what time ....?
geldiğin-de --> when he came.
kapı-da --> at the door or on the door
etc etc etc


PS: Please don't confuse -de/-te/-da with de (alone and separate)



I know about de/da and when it's used
I never encountered it with a participle though, hence my confusion. Thanks once again



Elisa, here you have how to use the 'when suffixes', where says 'Saying When and When not'.

http://www.practicalturkish.com/difficulties-of-turkish--expressing-yourself.html

10.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 08:47 pm

Quoting natiypuspi:


Elisa, here you have how to use the 'when suffixes', where says 'Saying When and When not'.



Thanks a lot, bookmarked it

11.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 09:07 pm

So, let me see if I understood it right..

kapıyı kapattığımda - when I closed the door
kapıyı kapattığında - when you closed the door
kapıyı kapattığında - when s/he closed the door
kapıyı kapattığımızda - when we closed the door
kapıyı kapattığınızda - when you closed the door
kapıyı kapattıklarında - when they closed the door

doğru mu?

12.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 09:18 pm

YUP

13.       juliacernat
424 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 11:32 pm

Quoting Elisa:



kapıyı kapattığımda - when I closed the door
kapıyı kapattığında - when you closed the door
kapıyı kapattığında - when s/he closed the door
kapıyı kapattığımızda - when we closed the door
kapıyı kapattığınızda - when you closed the door
kapıyı kapattıklarında - when they closed the door



veya

kapıyı kapattığım zaman* when I closed the door
kapıyı kapattığın zaman* when you closed the door
kapıyı kapattığı zaman* when she.he closed the door
kapıyı kapattığımız zaman* when we closed the door
kapıyı kapattığınız zaman* when you closed the door
kapıyı kapattıkları zaman* when they opene dthe door

the construction: verb stem+ -dık+ possesive suffixes+ da/de or zaman= WHEN (both for present and for past)

the construction: verb stem+ -ecek+ possesive suffixes+ da/de= WHEN (for future)

e.g. Geleceğinde sana sımsıkı sarılacağım.= when you (will) come, I will embrace you very tight.

14.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 11:43 pm

Quoting juliacernat:


e.g. Geleceğinde sana sımsıkı sarılacağım.= when you (will) come, I will embrace you very tight.



Don't give this kind of example, i'm feeling too sentimental tonight


Thanks, I must admit, I learnt so much today

15.       juliacernat
424 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 11:54 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting juliacernat:


e.g. Geleceğinde sana sımsıkı sarılacağım.= when you (will) come, I will embrace you very tight.



Don't give this kind of example, i'm feeling too sentimental tonight



tamam, canım!

Türkiye'ye yaz okuluna gideceğinde çök enteresan şey öğreneceksin.

16.       Elisa
0 posts
 24 Mar 2007 Sat 11:56 pm

Quoting juliacernat:


Türkiye'ye yaz okuluna gideceğinde çök enteresan şey öğreneceksin.



17.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 25 Mar 2007 Sun 01:40 pm

Quoting juliacernat:

Türkiye'ye yaz okuluna gideceğinde çök enteresan şey öğreneceksin.



I am sorry but you cannot use it by future tense. Even you are talk about future, you have to use -dik form, which is "untimed":

"... gittiğinde ..."

and çok: "o" without points.

18.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 25 Mar 2007 Sun 10:05 pm

Türkiye'ye gelince görüşÃ¼rüz.
Oraya gidince beni özle.
Konuşunca yüzünde güller açıyor.
Seni görünce içim bir hoş oluyor.
Yatağa girince hemen uyuyabiliyor musun?
Okuyunca anlıyor musun?
Sorunca cevap ver.

-ce is similar to -de.
*But I feel 'after' in most cases.

19.       juliacernat
424 posts
 25 Mar 2007 Sun 10:53 pm

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

Türkiye'ye gelince görüşÃ¼rüz.
Oraya gidince beni özle.
Konuşunca yüzünde güller açıyor.
Seni görünce içim bir hoş oluyor.
Yatağa girince hemen uyuyabiliyor musun?
Okuyunca anlıyor musun?
Sorunca cevap ver.

-ce is similar to -de.
*But I feel 'after' in most cases.



could you please explain a little bit more this "ce" construction? I know it is used to form a subordinate clause of time, but I have not leant it yet and....I would appreciate some help regarding the way it is formed and what exactly does it express (in comparison with the -dık+possesive suffix+de)

thank you in advance,
julia

20.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 25 Mar 2007 Sun 11:00 pm

Quoting juliacernat:

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

Türkiye'ye gelince görüşÃ¼rüz.
Oraya gidince beni özle.
Konuşunca yüzünde güller açıyor.
Seni görünce içim bir hoş oluyor.
Yatağa girince hemen uyuyabiliyor musun?
Okuyunca anlıyor musun?
Sorunca cevap ver.

-ce is similar to -de.
*But I feel 'after' in most cases.



could you please explain a little bit more this "ce" construction? I know it is used to form a subordinate clause of time, but I have not leant it yet and....I would appreciate some help regarding the way it is formed and what exactly does it express (in comparison with the -dık+possesive suffix+de)

thank you in advance,
julia



"-ince"

gelince
gidince (gitmek t << d as exception)
bakınca
koşunca
gülünce

21.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 26 Mar 2007 Mon 08:37 am

First of all thanks caliptrix pointing out the correct suffix.
not -ce. it is -ince.

If you haven't studied yet, I don't recommend you to read what I wrote below. It may confuse you more. I think it is out of my capabilities.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gittiğinde çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
2-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gittiğin zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
3-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidiyor olduğunda çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
4-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidiyor olduğun zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
5-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidince çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
******
I am not sure how to explain. They all mean similar.
And differences between them are not very clear.
The things I wrote down are my ideas only, individually.
*I strongly suggest you to read a grammar book or wait for others' answers, before taking what I have written into your account.
******

1 and 2 : At the time when you attend the school.
3 and 4 : When you keep attending the school.
5 : After you keep attending/completing the school.

a)Kapıyı açtığımda Ali'yi gördüm.
b)Kapıyı açtığım zaman Ali'yi gördüm.
c)Kapıyı açınca Ali'yi gördüm.

a) at the time of 'doing' the action. Not after completing the action.
b) Can be used instead of a and b.
c) After completing the action of opening.

I)Türkiye'ye geldiğinde görüşÃ¼rüz.
II)Türkiye'ye geldiğin zaman görüşÃ¼rüz.
III)Türkiye'ye gelince görüşÃ¼rüz.
Here they all look same.

22.       Elisa
0 posts
 26 Mar 2007 Mon 10:11 am

First of all, thanks a lot for all you help

There is something I've seen in this thread, and I saw it in another one as well:

Quoting :

2-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gittiğin zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
4-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidiyor olduğun zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.

1 and 2 : At the time when you attend the school.
3 and 4 : When you keep attending the school.



What does the verb olmak add in the above sentence (n°.4)? Does it give a meaning of continuation then? That's what I understand from the explanation anyway ("3 & 4")

23.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 26 Mar 2007 Mon 12:06 pm

I don't know why but, Turkish doesn't allow some constructions in some tenses. So we use 'olmak' to make them.

2-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gittiğin zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.
4-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidiyor olduğun zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.

1 and 2 : At the time when you attend the school.
3 and 4 : When you keep attending the school.

here, we cannot say gidiyor-de or gidecek-de using -de suffix.
gidiyor olduğun(da) zaman.
The tense of the sentence(4) is Future. As it is same in English we cannot say future and continuous in the same verb(I think).
Look at the translation : you will 'be' attending.
We have to use 'be' to give a continuous meaning in the future.
(4)You will learn very interesting things while you will 'be'/'are' attending a summer school in Turkey.
Olmak is 'to be'.

(2)You will learn very interesting things when you attend a summer school in Turkey.

I can make more explanations later, if you want. I am late to my evening class. Gotta go..

24.       Elisa
0 posts
 27 Mar 2007 Tue 10:38 pm

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:


I can make more explanations later, if you want.



I do, after your previous explanations have sunken in.. Guess I'll need some time to digest this, it's all quite new

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

I am late to my evening class. Gotta go..



Kolay gelsin

25.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 12:22 am

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:


4-)Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidiyor olduğun zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.



But it is a bit extreme...

26.       metehan2001
501 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 01:04 am

Quote:

"Türkiye'de yaz okuluna gidiyor olduğun zaman çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.":



1. Yukardaki cümlenin ilk kısmı 'gidiyor olduğun zaman' gramer açısından doğru, fakat Türkçede böyle bir kullanıma sıkça rastalandığını söylemek oldukça zor. Onun yerine, 'gittiğin zaman' 'gittiğinde' ya da 'gidince' deriz.
2. Cümlenin ikinci kısmında da problem var: ' çok enteresan şey öğreneceksin.' yerine, ' çok enteresan şeyLER öğreneceksin.' ya da ' çok enteresan BİR şey öğreneceksin.' deriz.

27.       SunFlowerSeed
841 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 10:56 am

Ah! Sorry guys. I was late that day and was in hurry.

It was a mistake. But thanks for correcting.
It should have been 'çok enteresan şeyler'
And I don't why I have used 'enteresan' it is not a Turkish word.

Çok ilginç şeyler.

And about 'gidiyor olduğun zaman'.
It is a correct and perfect Turkish sentence. Everybody uses it when it is required to say such sentence. I mean if you are trying to ''strictly emphasize a continuous'' action.
Though it is kind of interchangeable,
Gittiğinde doesn't give the continuity clearly, right ?

But this was not the point in my explanation above.
It was an example for the given sentence in previous posts.
I was trying to explain -de cannot be used with -yor tense.

So we have to add 'olduğun' to say -de.
And I tried to compare it with 'be' in English.

But, really thanks for the correction.
Take care,

28.       Elisa
0 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 12:56 pm

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

Çok ilginç şeyler.



Why do you use plural here in combination with "çok"?

29.       juliacernat
424 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 02:06 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting SunFlowerSeed:

Çok ilginç şeyler.



Why do you use plural here in combination with "çok"?




I`ve learnt that "çok" is used with plural when the meaning is "many different things/things of different kind" (eg "pazara gittim ve çok şeyler satın aldım")

30.       Elisa
0 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 02:10 pm

Quoting juliacernat:

I`ve learnt that "çok" is used with plural when the meaning is "many different things/things of different kind" (eg "pazara gittim ve çok şeyler satın aldım")



Oh, I see.. But I guess saying "çok şey" isn't completely wrong, is it? It just doesn't stress the "different things", right?

31.       juliacernat
424 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 02:13 pm

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting juliacernat:

I`ve learnt that "çok" is used with plural when the meaning is "many different things/things of different kind" (eg "pazara gittim ve çok şeyler satın aldım")



Oh, I see.. But I guess saying "çok şey" isn't completely wrong, is it? It just doesn't stress the "different things", right?




I guess so (although an opinion from a native speaker would be welcome, together with some examples, please

thank you in advance


32.       metehan2001
501 posts
 28 Mar 2007 Wed 11:42 pm

Quoting juliacernat:

Quoting Elisa:

Quoting juliacernat:

I`ve learnt that "çok" is used with plural when the meaning is "many different things/things of different kind" (eg "pazara gittim ve çok şeyler satın aldım")



Oh, I see.. But I guess saying "çok şey" isn't completely wrong, is it? It just doesn't stress the "different things", right?




I guess so (although an opinion from a native speaker would be welcome, together with some examples, please

thank you in advance




1. ilginç + şeyler
(adjective) (noun)

2. çok + ilginç + şeyler
(adverb) + (adjective) + (noun)

3. 'çok şeyler' doesn't seem a proper structure. 'çok' indicates plurality itself, therefore we don't need plural endings (-ler) after the noun (şey). So, the correct ones are 'birçok şey', or 'çok şey'. Here are some examples:

Markete gittim ve BİRÇOK şey satın aldım.
Ona ÇOK kitap verdim, ama hiçbirini iade etmedi.
Masanın üstünde BİRÇOK mektup var.
ÇOK söz, yalansız olmaz.

4. As you see in my second example, you can bring the word 'çok' AS AN ADVERB before an adjective to show its degree.

Bu sınıfta ÇOK akıllı öğrenciler var.
I hope, these explanations make sense.



33.       Elisa
0 posts
 29 Mar 2007 Thu 01:16 pm

Quoting metehan2001:


4. As you see in my second example, you can bring the word 'çok' AS AN ADVERB before an adjective to show its degree.



Şimdi anladım, açıklamanız için çok teşekkürler!

34.       metehan2001
501 posts
 30 Mar 2007 Fri 03:21 am

Bir şey değil, Elisa.

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