I have read many scientific books about world history...
According some HISTORIANS, the American Natives were Turks..
According to a historical study, The Turks existance begins in Central Asia in 300 BC.The Turks establishes 29 nations until Turkish Republic.There are not many culture which has to the ability of establishing nations as Turks.
The Turks, continuously moved from Central Asia from 7 branches and 24 clans.
The Turks have a national tradition on Anatolian Land about 1000 years.
On the other hand, A Turk Branch had immigrated to the America from Mongolia, Siberia and North Pacific Ocean...
This is a historical moving in the ancient time.
If you really want to learn Turkish Language, first of all, you should know the history.
According to some HISTORIANS, the American Natives were Turks
What do you think about this topic?

I find this very interesting. My sister happens to be dating a Native American (he is from the Ohlone tribe). It would be greatly appreciated if you had some links that you could pass on for more reading on this topic.

çok teşekkür ederim,

Wendy

According to some HISTORIANS, the American Natives were Turks

I have heard that too. But I just think that they are extremists.
There are some points that may be right too..??..

1-Some motifs of American Natives'(Indians) rugs are similar to Turkic ones. This is the main idea for the relationship.
Don't remember much but they say that the meaning of those motifs are similar to Turkic ones.
2-Some words of some native languages looks like Turkic words.
Japanese has some similar words(same origin) with Turkish. So it is thought that in very very very very old times, some Turkish people went to Japan-Land and established Japan, and the remaining part moved to America.

They maybe right, but I don't think so.

3-Some people tracked Turks back to Mu. Another mysterious continent like Atlantis, but older than Atlantis I think.
Turks were living on a huge island in the middle of Pacific Ocean with some other tribes or cultures. When the island had sunk some old Turks had moved to Asia and some has moved to America.
They have some evidences of writings, some old pictures etc supposed to be Turkic origin from Mu continent.

This is also a possibility. Since the evidences cannot be approved, you can choose to believe whatever you want.

IMHO: NO

Addition:
According to most of the people in the world American Natives are not Turks, they are Indians.(From India)

No, they are not Turks. The nation Turk formed much later than the migration of the Amerindians from the central Asia to America. However, Turks, Indoeuropeans and Amerindians share a common genetic marker P which originated in central asia, and had derived as R and Q respectively. This should indicate the relation, a common ancestor in central asia. Language seperation developed quite late comparing to the genetic seperation, so Turks mainly with language and cultural mark can not be related to Amerindian. All human are related, only difference is the time scale.

No, Native American Indians are not Turks and will proudly tell you so.lol!!

Thank you lovebug – Wendy- and SunFlowerSeed for your valuable contributions..
In my opinion, the AMERICAN NATIVES and AMERICAN INDIANS are very different things according to a scientific study.
In my opinion, American Indian is a wrong concept or a phenomenon.
It is called "AMERICAN NATIVES".
This is a true definition.
And, according to some Historians, American Natives were Turks.
I study this thesis….

Yes, I agree with korshad …”All humans are related, only difference is the time scale”.There is only one ethnical group in this planet, it is humanity.I study this thesis as a humanity family.

I love that Korshad said all humans were related, only difference was timming. I believe this. I wish more people would study other cultures, and they would see so many similarities. This is why I love travel, cultures, and languages. It shows you that in some way, no matter how small, there are similarties that connect us.

If you compare DNA, we all come from Africa, originally...
All human beings are 99.99% the same based on DNA.
I think that with any scientific data, we can find the conclusion that we want to find.
I don't see it personally, the definitive link.
I think the most imporatnt part of the argument is to determine a time frame. If you are willing to go back far enough in time, than of course there is a link. But the questions is, is there a modern link?

No i do not say only DNA, DNA maybe gives only clue, i also say religions, languages and culture should be compared scientifically.

I don't know the religions of the ancient turkic tribes. The religions of the American Indian Tribes of North America all worship the earth. The sun, the wind, the rain, animals. But I think we can find these basic concepts in all ancient religions. Its all basically paginsim.
I do have a question though. I know several turks that really want this link between the two peoples to be true. I dont understand this part of it, on why they want this to be true. It seems to be some kind of romantic notion that they are the same peoples...

I was watching Dancing with Wolves with a Turk, who asked me what language the "Indians" were speaking. I told him it was a native language and why did he ask. He said because they were speaking an old Turkish that he could understand.

He said they were Turks.

I'm not a big fan of genetics. However, it is a hard science. Genitic studies have solid proof about human migration, which dates Amerindian crossing from Bering strait more than ten thousand years ago. Any mordern nation or ethnic group were not formed back then. So it is very unrealistic to call Amerindians as Turks.

One thing we are sure is that genetically, Turks, indoearopeans and Amerindians are closest. However, genetic relation only shows common ancestry, not ethnic affiliation. Moreover, mordern human are so mixed, it is rare to find any group with single genetic marker. one can't base his judgment on this genetic relation, in that case, Qazaq Turks should be considered as Mongols, and also polenisians who share predominant common genetic marker of C, which was originated in the south india, and spreaded through sea route.

However ethnic group (such as Turk) were formed in the known history by a group of people who have similar culture, and most importantly similar language to a mordern group. It's out of question modern Turk people are the people who speak a common Turkic language. Amerindian language is not Turkic language, even not an Altaic language.

Once upon a time, there was a group of people in central Asia, during the course of the history, a branch moved to the new continent became known as Amerindians (now), later another branch moved to the west, became known as indoeuropeans (now), and another branch stayed there and became known as Turks now. that's all.

My two cents.

Yes, Mr Keithl,
you are right, we say same thing.
We too are not going to argue with you what a “real American” is or who is “pure American”.
They are from England, Spain, İtaly, Portugal, Cuba, India, Latin America, Africa, Asia, all over the world.
All they are American citizens.
But all the USA citizens have the same rules and rights as the rest of the people in the USA.
As you know, ”All humans are related, only difference is the time scale”.
There is only one ethnical group in this planet, it is humanity.
Nations, branches and clans are the families of the humanity.

and Monday is your National Day.We congratulate your Memorial day...

Selam KeithL, SFS and all we are talking about history approximately 10000 years ago, you cant even know which tribe or you cant know which language they were speaking, we are talking about crumbs of similarities between them and the ancient cultures of Central Asia but as i mentioned in my other comment we cannot say surely that they are Turkic people. Today people also dont know the history of 2000 years ago. For example Christians are also debating that if Jesus was married or where was Jesus’s tomb or even if Jesus lived or not etc…

Leonard Cohen - Dance Me To The End Of Love Lyrics


Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic 'til I'm gathered safely in
Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love
Oh let me see your beauty when the witnesses are gone
Let me feel you moving like they do in Babylon
Show me slowly what I only know the limits of
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Dance me to the wedding now, dance me on and on
Dance me very tenderly and dance me very long
We're both of us beneath our love, we're both of us above
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Dance me to the children who are asking to be born
Dance me through the curtains that our kisses have outworn
Raise a tent of shelter now, though every thread is torn
Dance me to the end of love

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Touch me with your naked hand or touch me with your glove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

It may not be my business but;
The word Turkish is used in the meaning of Turkic in all posts where the real meaning points to the People of Turkey.
Other peoples from different Turkic countries may get it as we are trying to separate them from their Turkic roots.

will you dance with me
it was good movie (dance with wolwes)

Yes, Thank you so much Slavica,
Yes, Yılgün’s American Natives, will forgive us for this small digression.

Yes, of course, Slavica Abla.
American Natives are nice people.
They will forgive us for this digression.
Panta rei says “ Awww! That's very kind of you Slavica! Seeing this picture one can't help modiyfing the lyrics to "Dance me forever!"
Who will dance with me?

yilgun- I am not sure of what you mean below, and in fact I don't care at this time of the night, but I beg you, walk away!

Thank you so much Elisa...

i didn't read all posts here, but i found this on a my space turkish group i am part of:

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=35666329&groupID=100008417&adTopicID=8&Mytoken=4701CED8-0B9E-43D2-9161C86EEF8F9EE047365689

"In Turkish we spell it 'Meluncan', pronounced as 'Melun-john', it means "cursed/damned soul". I know a bit about them, not too much though. The Melungeon are actually a mixture of Turkish, Portugese, English, Morrocans, East Indians, Arabs, Native American and a few other grouips which I forgot. But the main people in this mixture are Turkish, Native American, Arab and Portugese. They came over as slaves by the English, I used to know the king's or captain's name which I forgot too. After a while they weren't needed anymore, I don't know why but I'll guess it's because they were spared while the Africans took their place, for a much longer and tougher era of slavery. After this these people stayed mainly along the Appalachian Mts. and mixed with eachother. They've always been outcasts from the White or European society so they kind of formed their own culture. A lot of this culture, which you can see in the music and food, is mostly influenced by Turks and Native Americas (who also still held on to their ancient proto-Turk culture and included it into the Melungeon culture). There's a theory that Abraham Lincoln and Elvis Presley were Melungeon too. A lot of Melungeon still live in their own communities, usually isolated from American society, in the mountains. As far as I know those Melungeon don't approve of marrying non-Melungeons. I've heard that Turkey and some schools in states that have a Melungeon population offer student exchange programs for Melungeon students and Turkish students. If you drive into a certain town, I forgot the name of it but you'll see it in the link I provide here, you'll see a Turkish flag on the town's welcoming sign calling it a sister city of Turkey, and the same in Turkey, I think they even named a bridge, a street or a park after this city too. Well here's a good link and a couple links for some books you can check out. I know Amazon.com has many books on Melungeons, they're becoming more known and becoming a popular topic for researchers and writers lately."

http://www.melungeons.com/articles/legacy2cities.htm

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1570720630/ref=pe_606_2499380_pe_ar_A2FCB41IFJHMZWd11570720630/104-7716341-9196750?n=283155

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0865545162/sr=8-1/qid=1150764520/ref=sr_1_1/104-7716341-9196750?%5Fencoding=UTF8

It is true that every culture had been affected from eachother. As a religionic concept human being all came from Adam and Eve so we can say there was only one language and religion at first. Can we know what language was that? No. And we can see lots of similarities in religions throughout the history. For example you can see similar stories in Sumers like Noah flood or you can see similar trinity concept in ancient religions as we know one of the Gospel writer Pavlus was also a pagan at first or you can see lots of similarities between ancient Egyptian religion and ancient any other religion etc. So In religionic concept one can interpret SFS’s idea like; maybe this only shows that God always sent messengers to the people(civilisations) and people corrupted the God’s religion so God continued to send messengers till Muhammed(view of a muslim maybe). But you only see many similarities between ancient Turanian religion and CULTURE(mixture of them) and religion and the CULTURE of American Natives rather than other cultures or religions such as Buddism, Hinduism,Zoroastrism etc(Again in view of Islam all of them are corrupted religions but all of them from same God, but the culture of civilisations were different , sure they have to be some common things.). So surely every culture maybe had taken some things from other cultures and every culture evolves but this does not mean cultures change into another culture if there is not an assimilation.

I thought the topic was dead, since the starter is not saying anything anymore.

You are right Armegon. Let's not move the topic into another direction.


It is better we stop on talking religious things.

I wonder where the starter of the topic went. :-S

Ancient panentheism

North American Indians were and still are largely panentheistic, conceiving of God as both immanent in Creation and transcendent from it. (Indian writers have also translated the word for God as the Great Mystery  or as the Sacred Other. An exception is the  Cherokee who were monotheistic. Most South American peoples were largely panentheistic as well (as were ancient South East Asian and African cultures).The Central American empires of the Mayas, Aztecs as well as the South American Incans(Tahuatinsuyu) were actually polytheistic and had very strong male deities.

here is one site you may find useful, it mentions Native American Indians who they think are related to Turkish people.

http://www.ozturkler.com/data_english/0008/0008_17.htm

 I absolutely agree.  People cling on to "I´m this" and "You´re that", but when you really go in depth of who we are, we are all the same people.  Humanity has moved around so much, and have called home a place away from their original home, that somehow, some way, we are all related.

Shaylynn, your link is very interesting! Thanks for sharing!

I´m glad you liked it. You´re welcome

There was an international symposium in İstanbul last week.

The scientists have strengthened that the American Natives were Turks.