A large Muslim flag on display at the Doges Palace in Venice.

The flag was taken at the battle of Lepanto which took place in 1571 when the 'Holy League' (coalition of the Papacy: Pope Pius V, Spain, Venice, Genoa, Duchy of Savoy, and the Knights of Malta) battled and defeated a galley of Ottoman ships. This was the last major naval battle between rowing ships only, in history.

The Muslim forces were led by Ali Pacha and included Uluj Ali (an Italian who accepted Islam who later became the ruler of Algiers and then tried to free Spain from Christian rule by sending a fleet of 40 ships which didn't make it becasue of bad winter weather). Despite orders for Ali Pasha to be captured alive, he was captured, beheaded and his head was mounted on a pike.

The flag is huge.

Ironically the 'islamic flag' has been hung in an 'islamic inspired building'. In her book "Venice & the East," (Deborah Howard, a professor of architectural history at the University of Cambridge) points out that Venetian builders in the 12th through 15th centuries borrowed heavily from Muslim architecture: which includes the Doges Palace where arch styles, heightened domes, relief works on walls, even staircase patterns were taken directly from the Muslim world, which had a flourishing commercial relationship with Venice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/swamibu/262805573/

you point being ???

strictly historical and educational

Thanks Roswitha for this educational piece.

I am glad you enjoyed reading my link

'Uluj Ali (...) tried to free Spain from Christian rule by sending a fleet of 40 ships'

Obviously, that's the Muslim version of truth..

Well let's hear the truth then and not from a Muslim perspective, please. :-S

maybe the word "truth" is not appropriate here.

I think "version" is less confrontational.
So maybe there is the muslim version of the story and the spanish version of the story.

Similarly, I know that the Ottomans take credit for rescuing Jews from persecution in Spain during the 1500's or 1600's.

Anyway, 2 sides to every story is what she means here.

Yes, what I mean is that in an unbiased, educational article, you don't use phrases like "Muslims went to free Spain from Christians". This just shows their desires to take over the peninsula. Yes, by 1400 there were many Muslims in Spain, but Spain was originally Christian and was invaded by Muslims in 711. Tensions were increasing until 1492 when Muslims lost power on the territory. Since Islam was founded, Muslims had continuous wars to conquer their neighbors.

Oh Please!!!! Spain was NOT originaly Christian....get over it already. The fact is it was probably Muslim longer than it was anything else....just short of 800 years.

Spain has been inhabited for many more years than Christianity has been in existance. Let me see now Phoenicians, Carthaginians....Romans all had significant colonies way before any Christians were there. Parts of it became part of Byzantium. However it was not united as a Christian country until after the "reconquista"

Spain has been inhabited for a very long long time....ever heard of the caves of Altamira Spain?
http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/World/Altamira.html

Conquering other countries was something everybody was doing at those times.

According to Wikipedia, History of Spain:

"Modern humans landed on the Iberian Peninsula in the area of today's Spain some 35,000 years ago. Waves of invaders and colonizers followed over the millennia, including the Celts, Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and Greeks, and by about 200 B.C., the area was controlled by the Roman Empire. Roman control was followed by the Visigoths, and in 711, the North African Muslims (or moors) began arriving. During the next 750 years, independent Muslim states were established, and the entire area of Muslim control became known as Al-Andalus. This period is remembered in part for a flowering of philosophy and religious thought, and in part for continuing tensions between Christians and Muslims. What became known as the Reconquista, that is, the Christian re-conquest of Spain, would last until 1492, with the fall of Moorish Granada. During this period Christian kingdoms and principalities developed, including the Kingdom of Castile and the Kingdom of Aragon. The union of these two kingdoms led to the creation of the Kingdom of Spain."

Comparison of forces in Battle of Lepanto (wikipedia)

Forces
See Battle of Lepanto order of battle for a detailed list of ships and commanders involved in the battle.
The Holy League's fleet consisted of 206 galleys and six galleasses (large converted merchant galleys carrying substantial artillery), and was ably commanded by Don John (or Don Juan) of Austria, the illegitimate son of Emperor Charles V and half brother of King Philip II of Spain. Vessels had been contributed by the various Christian states: 109 galleys and six galleasses from Venice, 80 galleys from Spain and Naples/Sicily, 12 Tuscan galleys hired by the Papal States, three galleys each from Genoa, Malta, and Savoy, and several privately owned galleys. All members of the alliance viewed the Turkish navy as a significant threat to their maritime trade in the Mediterranean Sea. The various Christian contingents met the main force, that of Venice (under Veniero), in July and August 1571 at Messina, Sicily. Don John arrived on 23 August.

This fleet of the Christian alliance was manned by 12,920 sailors. In addition, it carried almost 28,000 fighting troops: 10,000 Spanish regular infantry of excellent quality, 7,000 German and 6,000 Italian mercenary, and 5,000 Venetian soldiers. Also, Venetian oarsmen were free citizens unlike the slaves used by the Turkish navy and were therefore able to bear arms and fight for their city.

The Ottoman galleys were manned by 13,000 sailors and 34,000 soldiers. Ali Pasha (Turkish: "Kaptan-ı Derya Ali Paşa"), supported by the corsairs Chulouk Bey of Alexandria and Uluj Ali (Ulich Ali), commanded an Ottoman force of 222 war galleys, 56 galliots, and some smaller vessels. The Turks had skilled and experienced crews of sailors, but were somewhat deficient in their elite corps of Janissaries.

Why do you always have to turn everything into a religious or political bashing? It's tiring.

Do you want to know why the Spanish Premier League football team DEPORTIVO LA CORUNA raises Turkish flags in their games and are called "The Turks" by their opponents?

http://www.barbaros.biz/deportivo.htm

Its quite easy to just stay away from debate if you don't like it

I am trying to disassociate myself from religious affairs as much as possible. It is merely egos and interests fighting with one another in the disguise of faithfullness.
All holy causes come down to a physical bonus in the form of promised lands or worldly reigns. "I wish all the religions went down the sink." sic K. Ataturk.

I look forward to the time we live in peace with each other. As I said before, one's religious beliefs are very personal We should all have the freedom to explore and come to our own decisions on the matter as long as they don't impose on each other, don't you agree? In particular, there are really not a lot of differences in the Abrahamic religions. Look at the heart, not the tail.

May we change history?May we change the results of wars?
Over the world, which culture or religion didn't fight for its benefits?
Which country's history book at schools doesn't show itself right?

Each country educates new generations for their benefits.Each of us believes our truths,so anybody cannot persuade the others here.If ıt could be ,there would be one religion and one nation.
Let the world colorful with its different sides.Nobody need to say about the others.

Müjde, well said! Aferin !

Friends,
I say this because we are the members of same site for our close aims.
when I joined this site everybody was talking about general things about Turkish and Turkish Culture.Nowadays, everybody talks about religions,muslims,cristians etc.
I am bored with this.
Each topic is connected with religions.
why?
why?
ı dont know, may be some members especially takes the subject there.
My reaction is for this.please read my messages for eash religion or culture.I dont try to defense only my religion.
Please......
I want old days of this site....

Mujde I think the subject of religion will always arise for many reasons.

One reason is simply that, for many, meeting Turkish people may be their first experience of Islam. They are curious and ask questions.

Another reason is that muslims here are constantly raising the subject!!! Are we to simply ignore such comments or accept your religious texts without question? Many muslim members have posted parts of the Quran as FACT without any thought that we are of different faith.

In the "old days" maybe we were all more polite and respectful of the rules regarding talking about religion. However, if muslims keep posting religious posts - don't expect there to be NO COMMENT - all it does is provoke further religious discussion and threads!

Yes,we should be more polite.
Microcosmo-> macrocosmo

That is all WE have to say

dont waste your valuable times,
because no one on earth can solve and understand the history and religions.they only talk...

you are a little baby too, you cannot understand thm like everybody in the world.enjoy your time, life is moments, life is a beautiful thing.enjoy...

we never know the truth...

no one on earth know the truth...

Dear Catwoman....

I'm glad to see we are on the same page. I'm glad to read you did not mean to be insulting.

"Alameda, then we are on the same page. Please, don't be so easily insulted by everything even when there's no insult! I'm really tired of you and others taking everything personally and making any discussions impossible! If I bashed something somewhere, please show it to me and I'll explain it to you or correct myself."

In the interest in more constructive conversations, and seeing as you asked, here is where it started going downhill:

post #6 "Uluj Ali (...) tried to free Spain from Christian rule by sending a fleet of 40 ships' lol

Obviously, that's the Muslim version of truth.."

This next is inaccurate and insulting:

post # 14 "Yes, what I mean is that in an unbiased, educational article, you don't use phrases like "Muslims went to free Spain from Christians". This just shows their desires to take over the peninsula. Yes, by 1400 there were many Muslims in Spain, but Spain was originally Christian and was invaded by Muslims in 711. Tensions were increasing until 1492 when Muslims lost power on the territory. Since Islam was founded, Muslims had continuous wars to conquer their neighbors."

"What are you trying to prove with your quote? I never said that Christians didn't do anything wrong, the question was about who invaded who. I am absolutely not defending Christian barbaric past."

I wasn't aware of the fact there was a question as to who invaded who. Everyone invaded everyone at some time, so it seems....again...Spain was not originally Christian.

http://libro.uca.edu/mckenna/pagan1.htm

My post was only to contest the assertion that Christian re-conquest of Spain was not in fact a re-conquest. Spain was a multicultural country and was not a unified Christian country until 1492. Even then,it became a Roman Catholic country. Those who were not Roman Catholic were considered heretics.. It took more than a few years of the Inquisition to get it to be a unified Roman Catholic country....note that in England the Protestant Reformation was taking place...

I might point out that at the same time they (the Spanish) were teaching the Aztecs and other natives in the New World about Christianity.....my point is pointing fingers at Muslims zeal to spread their religion is out of line as this type of activity was not unique at that time. "Since Islam was founded, Muslims had continuous wars to conquer their neighbors.".....Isabella and Ferdinand were all over the place and in other parts of Europe Protestant Reformation was not exactly a peaceful event.

My point is when we focus on only one part of the picture it gives a warped view....

It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/blind_men_elephant.html

can anyone wake me up when the train reaches to Belgrade

I wonder, why all the debates about Islam?!!
if you like the Islamic religion You can search for the teachings or Principles of this religion,or we can help if you want , but if you hate this religion, do not post sectarian and insulting posts here which diminish respect for others

Alameda, if you call quoting historical facts as insulting then it will be impossible to find a common ground. I wonder what you would say if I actually quoted a text that describes the methods of torture that were used by Muslims, like you did it for Christians?!?!?! Don't the same rules apply to you?
This is not an islamic web site and you will have to learn what is meant as an insult and what is not. Getting two sides of the story does not mean that I will have to agree with everything you say, you also have to see my point of view.

I never understand the comment "what good does talking/discussing do"? It's rather like saying "what good does listening to music do?" or "what good does looking at nice paintings do"?

It is human nature to exchange ideas and debate. EVERYONE does it. Even "gossiping" is an exchange of ideas. You learn other people's opinions and agree or disagree. Anything that makes you think about a subject and consider it has surely GOT to be better than just ignoring it?

So intresting A flag in Venice,then a falg on moon,later a flag in a Mars colony...
* Armies are not going to make fun when they marsh.
* They are not going to give happiness... how can as a solider to enter a home in another country and behead the mother and father then give the remained baby a candy saying: Baby don't worry from now you will get a better life.
* The Middle-Ages was titled superficially in the name of religion but in fact there were wars for getting more lands, having more slaves and then collecting more wealth to build palaces that will become Turism sights in the next centuries.
* God's relgion is so different from the Human religion...
While God calling for saving people and love
Human beings are proud of killing, ocupying and hate!!
* You can not free me using any name or religion, because I am who the responsible to free myself. You may free me from an iron handscuffs or silver one, but soon you may put a golden one for me ........ no difference because I can not move my hands freely

Catwoman,

Your point of view in not the issue. Your presentation of your views and the misrepresentation of historical facts is. Issues that I have mentioned are uncontested and well documented. I was commenting on your inaccurate recitation of facts

Regarding my post of the Spanish torture, it was added to show the context of the events of the time of the battle of Lepanto.

If you only talk about one historical fact, that gives a one sided view and misrepresents the larger picture. Things have context and that is very important. As history is many faceted, one has to be careful when one quotes. By only showing one facet, our understanding is compromised.

"but Spain was originally Christian and was invaded by Muslims in 711. Tensions were increasing until 1492 when Muslims lost power on the territory. Since Islam was founded, Muslims had continuous wars to conquer their neighbors."

When you make a statement that Spain was originally Christian and present it as fact, it is an inaccurate presentation of history. It is simply not true. Spain has over 15,000 years of documented history. Christianity is only a little over 2,000 years old. That is a fact.

"The Altamira Cave
The Sistine Chapel of Palaeolithic Art"
http://www.showcaves.com/english/es/showcaves/Altamira.html

"The problem is that you just cannot say anything that they don't like, even if you're talking about plain, cold history (that doesn't apply the other way round). Some people here just don't respect our rights to - for example - exchange information about history, because everything has to be on their terms. I feel disrespected and insulted!!!"

You are as a person are not disrespected, but your scholarship could use some refinement.

who is a real scientist or a real historian?

Did I miss something? When I read the original post, I didn't even notice any of this? It just seemed like an interesting tidbit. How silly am I for taking it at face value and not reading into it.