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Difference between gelse/gelirse ?
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30.       elham
579 posts
 19 Jan 2008 Sat 08:06 pm

maybe this lesson can help you to understand Conditionals in turkish language from my friend Yasmeen
1-Factual conditionals with if+ present tense in the if clause -present tense in the main clause. Factual condtionals express facts which are true when certain conditions are met.

Çalışırsan sınavı kazanırsın =İf you study, you win the exam.

if you eat spinach, you get iron in your diet
İf+ present present

Acording to this sentence, it is a fact that people get iron in their diet when they eat spinach.

2- Future conditionals with if + present tense in the if clause-future tense in the main clause. Future conditionals express facts which may be true in the future.

Yarışmayı kazanırsam, ödül alacağım.= İf i win competition, i will take reward.

3-Hypothetical conditionals with if+past tense in the if clause-would+ the simple form of the verb in the main clause. Hypothetical conditionals express facts
which are not likely to be true, but which is possible.

Çalışsa , sınavı kazanırdı.
(geniş zaman=simple present) (simple present tense in the past tense.=geniş zamanın geçmişi)

if they ate spinach, they would get iron in their diet.
İf + past would+ simple form

Acording to this sentence, it is not likely that they will eat their spinach; however, it is possible. İf they eat their spinach, they will get iron in their diet.

4-(A) Counterfactual conditionals with I with if +were (or sometimes other verbs in past tense) in the if clause-would+ the simple form of the verb in the main clause.
Counterfactual conditionals I sentences express gacts which are untrue in the present.

Burada olsaydı, ıspanak yerdi.
(geçmiş zaman-past tense) (geniş zamanın geçmişi-simple present tense in the past tense)

İf here were here, he would eat this spinach
İf+ were would+simple form

Acording to this sentence, he is not here (if he were here= he is not here) Therefore,he will not eat the spinach.

(B) Counterfactual conditionals II with if + past perfect in the if clause-would have+ past participle in main clause. Counterfactual conditional II sentences express
facts which are untrue in the past.

Çalışsaydı sınavı kazanacaktı. = if he had worked, he would have won the exam.
(geçmiş zaman-past tense) (gelecek zamanın geçmişi-future tense in the past tense)

İf they had eaten their spinach, they would have gotten iron their diet.
IF + past perfect would have + past participle

According to this sentence, they did not eat their spinach (if they had eaten their spinach= they did not eat their spinach), so they did not get iron in their diet.


The truth value of these conditional sentence types can be summarized as follows

True- Factual conditionals
Possibly true in the future -Future conditionals
Less possible true in the future- Hypothetical condtionals
Untrue- Counterfactual conditionals

5- First past tense then conditional (se-sa) is used

- to talk about events that we do not know if they happened in the past

Çalışmadıysa, sınavı kazanamayacak.
(past tense+se-sa) (future tense)

(He did not study so he will not be able to win the exam)

-to talk about events that we know they absolutely happened in the past.

Ne yaptıysam sizin için yaptım.
(Whatever i did, i did for you)

Bir kitabını aldıysam ne olur.
(İ took a book of you. What is wrong with it ? )

31.       si++
3785 posts
 20 Jan 2008 Sun 06:31 am

Quoting si++:

OK I rephrase my latest statement.

My second example can be a wish but can also be a condition depending on the context (that's why its name is dilek-şart). It's not only a wish (dilek) but also a condition (şart).



To further support my statement, here are some examples which express condition rather than wish. I will not bother with translating them.

ağzınla kuş tutsan yaranamazsın
yapmak istesen böylesini yapamazdın
gidecek olsam o da gelmeye kalkar
gitmesek olmaz
daha erken yola çıksak yetişirmisiz

32.       Dilara
1153 posts
 23 Jan 2008 Wed 05:57 am

Thank you all of you once again for your explanations and examples. I must confess that some of them were difficult to understand but I hope they stick in my mind.
I needed to clarify and one thing is clear :
Konusmasan and konusMAZsan are by no means the same thing , it must be something difficult within turkish grammar because even some turkish native speakers find it hard to explain or to notice the difference.
If I have further questions regarding the same topic, I hope you can help me because I am sure most learners struggle with this "gelse - gelirse" or turkish "conditional" tense .
Thank you all once again, much appreciated.

Dilara.

33.       si++
3785 posts
 24 Jan 2008 Thu 02:21 am

Quoting Dilara:

I needed to clarify and one thing is clear :
Konusmasan and konusMAZsan are by no means the same thing



No not at all.

One tip for you.

You need to decide if there is an "ise" or -se at the end.

"ise" has become a suffix (-se/-sa) in today's Turkish and it is the source of confusion.

So
Konusmazsan = konusmaz isen (V+Aorist tense suffix and "ise" + -n personal suffix)
Kunusmasan (it is V + -se/-sa or "dilek-şart" as we call it + -n personal suffix)

Take out -se/-sa and try to see whether it is a verb or verb+aorist tense suffix



de-sen --> de (verb)
der-sen --> de-r (verb+aorist)

ye-sen --> ye (verb)
yer-sen --> ye-r (verb+aorist)

uyu-san --> uyu (verb)
uyur-san --> uyu-r (verb+aorist)

ara-san --> ara (verb)
arar-san --> ara-r (verb+aorist)

etc.

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