Hi all , I hope you can clarify this to me because I still cant understand 100% what is the MAIN difference between these conditional tenses ! or can they mean the same in some cases?
For example ,
" (Eger )Dilek eve gelse , beraber disariya gidebiliriz "
" (Eger )Dilek eve gelIRSE , beraber disariya gidebiliriz "

And are these sentences correct? In the case they are, could they have the same meaning?

" Eger benimle konusmasan , asla anlamayacaksin ".
" Eger benimle konusmaZsan, asla anlamayacaksin ".

Simdiden tesekkurler!
Dilara.

Hi Dilara,

In my attempt to distinguish between the two, Omer explained the following:
1. " (Eger )Dilek eve gelse , beraber disariya gidebiliriz "
2. " (Eger )Dilek eve gelIRSE , beraber disariya gidebiliriz "

In the first case, the speaker is IMAGINING/dreaming- "when she comes to my home we might....."

In the second case, the speaker has a specific PLAN- "when she comes to my home we will do...., then...."

We have been working on part 2 of your question and will reply soon

Christine




Hi all , I hope you can clarify this to me because I still cant understand 100% what is the MAIN difference between these conditional tenses ! or can they mean the same in some cases?
For example ,
" (Eger )Dilek eve gelse , beraber disariya gidebiliriz "
" (Eger )Dilek eve gelIRSE , beraber disariya gidebiliriz "

And are these sentences correct? In the case they are, could they have the same meaning?

" Eger benimle konusmasan , asla anlamayacaksin ".
" Eger benimle konusmaZsan, asla anlamayacaksin ".

Simdiden tesekkurler!
Dilara.

Thank you so much both of you Inankur and Christine for your help!
Yes, sometimes I confuse "dilek" -wish- with turkish conditionals and you see, one letter can create a huge difference in meaning.
Thank you so much to Omer as well, ohh he's trying to teach you his native language , sounds sweet
Sana da tesekkur ederim Omer.
Dilara.

Yes. Christine's explanation matches the way I know it. Gelse is more hypothetically, there is no such case. Gelirse carries a condition in it for the second part of the sentence to happen.

Thanks for the sweet words Dilara, we are trying

To answer your second question, Omer gave me a scenario.

Imagine two people are having a terrible disagreement.

In the first scenario, the man is very troubled, and receives messages on his answering machine from his Turkish girlfriend asking him to please call her. He phones, and they mend their problems through conversation. He cautions her for the future: Honey, "if you don't speak to me you can't understand" (sentence 1)

HOWEVER:

In the second scenario, the man is so angry he refuses to answer the telephone, and his Turkish girlfriend leaves several messages. In the final message to the machine she says (directively) ' if you don't speak to me, you can't understand me'


(sentence 1)" Eger benimle konusmasan , asla anlamayacaksin ".



(sentence 2) " Eger benimle konusmaZsan, asla anlamayacaksin ".

I hope we are correct and that this is helpful!
Christine and Omer

Once again Thank you so much for your comments Deli_Kizin and for your examples Christine - and Omer.
I tried to portray myself in both situations to get it and I think I did so it was practical and useful.
Once again thanks all of you !!
Çalismaya devam edelim
Dilara

You are learning so fast Dilara! Aferin sana

Sometimes, we say, "gelse", "anlasa", "bilse" in order to indicate dual messages; both a condition and a wish.

For example, when we say:

Aslında sorunlarımız çözümsüz değil, bunu bir anlasa her şey çok güzel olacak.

Meaning:

Actually, our problems are not without solutions, if only she can understand this, everything will be perfect.

We also emphasize the improbability of a condition:

Eve dönmüş olamaz, olsa(ydı ilkin beni arardı.

He can't have returned home, if he were he would call me as the first thing.

Actually 'anlasa' vb forms, also imply that the outcome is negative:

Anlasa da.. If she would just understand it, BUT SHE DOESNT.

Anlarsa, bu ödevi yapar. If she understands it, she can do the homework. It is not sure whether she understands it or not, all that matters is that her understanding is a şart for the second part to actually happen.

Ağlarsa anam ağlar gerisi yalan ağlar.

Should there be anyone (improbable) to cry for me it will be my mother; all the rest will just fake it.

For all practical purposes..."Konusmasan" expresses a wish, and "konusmazsan" relates to a condition. They are not variations of the same word, spoken in different dialects.

In the two telephone examples some one gave, the correct word to be used is "konusmazsan".

In the following example the two words are not interchangeable

I wish you would not talk at all. (Dilerdim ki, hic konusmasan)

Check my post above, again. I revised it, so you can understand.

OK I rephrase my latest statement.

My second example can be a wish but can also be a condition depending on the context (that's why its name is dilek-şart). It's not only a wish (dilek) but also a condition (şart).

Your examples both express a wish.
The first is a direct wish. The second relates to something that happened in the past, an action that will not yield to any condition imposed in present.

A good example to "sart" would have been

UCAGA BINERSE, YETISIR. which is a conditional statement, independent from speaker's own wishes.

I shall not reply to further comments.

Another difference:

Konuşmazsan is a birleşik zaman, the geniş zamanın şartı of the şart birleşik çekimi. Konuşmasan is not a birleşik zaman at all!

Türkçe'de GERÇEK şart cümleler (şart cümler! istek veya dilek cümle değil) bu biçimlerde yapılır. Zaman anlamı vardır, önce şart cümlesi, sonra temel cümle kullanılır.

Geniş zamanın şartı: geniş zamanla ilgili bir hareketi başka bir hareketnin yapılmasına/yapılmamasına şartı koştuğumuzu anlatmak için kullanılır.

- Biz geziye gitmezsek, siz de gidemezsiniz.

maybe this lesson can help you to understand Conditionals in turkish language from my friend Yasmeen
1-Factual conditionals with if+ present tense in the if clause -present tense in the main clause. Factual condtionals express facts which are true when certain conditions are met.

Çalışırsan sınavı kazanırsın =İf you study, you win the exam.

if you eat spinach, you get iron in your diet
İf+ present present

Acording to this sentence, it is a fact that people get iron in their diet when they eat spinach.

2- Future conditionals with if + present tense in the if clause-future tense in the main clause. Future conditionals express facts which may be true in the future.

Yarışmayı kazanırsam, ödül alacağım.= İf i win competition, i will take reward.

3-Hypothetical conditionals with if+past tense in the if clause-would+ the simple form of the verb in the main clause. Hypothetical conditionals express facts
which are not likely to be true, but which is possible.

Çalışsa , sınavı kazanırdı.
(geniş zaman=simple present) (simple present tense in the past tense.=geniş zamanın geçmişi)

if they ate spinach, they would get iron in their diet.
İf + past would+ simple form

Acording to this sentence, it is not likely that they will eat their spinach; however, it is possible. İf they eat their spinach, they will get iron in their diet.

4-(A) Counterfactual conditionals with I with if +were (or sometimes other verbs in past tense) in the if clause-would+ the simple form of the verb in the main clause.
Counterfactual conditionals I sentences express gacts which are untrue in the present.

Burada olsaydı, ıspanak yerdi.
(geçmiş zaman-past tense) (geniş zamanın geçmişi-simple present tense in the past tense)

İf here were here, he would eat this spinach
İf+ were would+simple form

Acording to this sentence, he is not here (if he were here= he is not here) Therefore,he will not eat the spinach.

(B) Counterfactual conditionals II with if + past perfect in the if clause-would have+ past participle in main clause. Counterfactual conditional II sentences express
facts which are untrue in the past.

Çalışsaydı sınavı kazanacaktı. = if he had worked, he would have won the exam.
(geçmiş zaman-past tense) (gelecek zamanın geçmişi-future tense in the past tense)

İf they had eaten their spinach, they would have gotten iron their diet.
IF + past perfect would have + past participle

According to this sentence, they did not eat their spinach (if they had eaten their spinach= they did not eat their spinach), so they did not get iron in their diet.


The truth value of these conditional sentence types can be summarized as follows

True- Factual conditionals
Possibly true in the future -Future conditionals
Less possible true in the future- Hypothetical condtionals
Untrue- Counterfactual conditionals

5- First past tense then conditional (se-sa) is used

- to talk about events that we do not know if they happened in the past

Çalışmadıysa, sınavı kazanamayacak.
(past tense+se-sa) (future tense)

(He did not study so he will not be able to win the exam)

-to talk about events that we know they absolutely happened in the past.

Ne yaptıysam sizin için yaptım.
(Whatever i did, i did for you)

Bir kitabını aldıysam ne olur.
(İ took a book of you. What is wrong with it ? )

Thank you all of you once again for your explanations and examples. I must confess that some of them were difficult to understand but I hope they stick in my mind.
I needed to clarify and one thing is clear :
Konusmasan and konusMAZsan are by no means the same thing , it must be something difficult within turkish grammar because even some turkish native speakers find it hard to explain or to notice the difference.
If I have further questions regarding the same topic, I hope you can help me because I am sure most learners struggle with this "gelse - gelirse" or turkish "conditional" tense .
Thank you all once again, much appreciated.

Dilara.