Turkey |
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ANDIMIZ! (Student Vow)
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| 110. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 11:57 am |
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Quoting girleegirl: DK don't be so sure about this. I see very similar writing style to a former, deleted member who used to end his posts with "profound" statements....like "got it", "that's enough" and "mind your own business". If it's true, it is just a matter of time before we see the REAL person behind the posts. Time will tell.  |
You read my mind, but then in any case this post was with an improved writing style And 'any questions' and the quote at the end, is exactly what made me think that way too 
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| 111. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 11:58 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: I did not find it refreshing at all!!
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We are talking relative cases here, arent we? Look at what Lapinkulta wrote or QQ..
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| 112. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 11:59 am |
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to all of you that have ability to understand, from Ataturk:
Turkish youth!
Your first duty is forever to preserve and to defend the Turkish independence and the turkish republic.
This is the very foundation of your existence and your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure. in the future, too, there may be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If some day you are compelled to defend your independence and your republic, you must not tarry to weigh the possibilities and circumstances of the situation before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may turn out to be extremely unfavourable. The enemies conspiring against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. it may be that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland may be captured, all its shipyards occupied, all its armies dispersed and every part of the country invaded. And sadder and graver than all these circumstances, those who hold power within the country may be in error, misguided and may even be traitors. Furthermore, they may indentify their personal interests with the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.
Youth of Turkey’s future,
Even in such circumstances it is your duty to save the turkish independence and republic.
The strength you need is already imbedded in your noble blood.
thank you Ataturk, thank you
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| 113. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:10 pm |
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That was very moving, I see Ataturk was a great speaker. But what menaces are there for Turks now? What perils are there? Who is the enemy? Who wants to occupy Turkey?
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| 114. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:15 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: That was very moving, I see Ataturk was a great speaker. But what menaces are there for Turks now? What perils are there? Who is the enemy? Who wants to occupy Turkey? |
you must be joking hehe
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| 115. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:19 pm |
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Quoting janissary:
you must be joking hehe |
About him being a great speaker or Turkey being in danger?
For all I know Turkey suffers from PKK terrorism. Anything else I missed?
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| 116. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 12:24 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting girleegirl: DK don't be so sure about this. I see very similar writing style to a former, deleted member who used to end his posts with "profound" statements....like "got it", "that's enough" and "mind your own business". If it's true, it is just a matter of time before we see the REAL person behind the posts. Time will tell. |
You read my mind, but then in any case this post was with an improved writing style And 'any questions' and the quote at the end, is exactly what made me think that way too |
Mine too! I thought it was obvious from his first appearance in the chat room! Nice nick though!
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| 117. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 01:20 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: Quoting catwoman: Quoting KeithL: Name one or two for me. I can name many with strong sense of nationalism that are truly independent.
USA
Canada
England
France
Germany
Russia
Japan
China
Of course I have left out some, but these are the obvious that come to mind in just seconds. |
What makes these countries great is not their nationalism. Also, what made them great was not their nationalism. And in present day, nationalism in these countries is used to manipulate the masses to allow the governments to carry on their hideous policies. |
I did not say nationalism made them great. They are great countries. AND...they are nationalists. |
We have a nationalist element, but we are not a nationalistic country, with over 300 nationalities how can we be? Patriotic, maybe and even that is dying because so many people would like to see the Royal family gone.
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| 118. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 01:40 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: Quoting KeithL:
USA
Canada
England
France
Germany
Russia
Japan
China |
I don't think Canada is nationalistic. I doubt Canadians are brainwashed every day to believe that they are the greatest nation in the world and whatever the government does it must be obeyed. I also doubt minorities are looked down on. Also, I may be an ignorant but how many terrorist attacks were there recently?
Japan is more business-oriented. I think it's lost lots of its nationalism to materialism.
England, France and Germany are so mixed racially and nationally that it's hard to speak about the German/British/French spirit. Of course, all these countries have organisations and supporters of nationalism but it's a bit like flogging a dead horse. I doubt they'd eagerly fight for whatever cause their country tells them to. Were they really nationalistic, they'd make their minorities assimilate even if it meant using force.
I'm not sure about China but Russia definitely is nationalistic. Both these countries have long history of not respecting individuals who were more like slaves to the country that citizens. Sacrificing millions was never a problem for their wielders. Now, we may of course debate whether you'd like to live in a country where you cannot decide about yourself if your government appointed fate for you. China regulated birth control and riots turned into massacres. Human rights are still not respected there. And there's the issue of Tibet. If this is what makes you call China a great nation then I'm speechless.
Russia is said to have to be ruled by a strong hand. It has been so for centuries. Nationalism as concept has been used by their rulers to justify their imperialism. Russia is strong, unpredictable and dangerous. However, being the biggest country in the world and controlling a huge part of natural resources like oil or gas it has a massive influence on the world. If any other country dealt with Chechnya the way Russia did, the consequences would be different. Russia is not a democracy, it's an Empire and it will remain so regardless of the name it will take. Are you sure you'd like to live in a country where your voice doesn't matter? Right...
And then there's the USA. Sure it has to enforce national feelings - they have no common roots and their history is just over 200 years old. To create a sense of unity in a country like that you need something to keep them together. Why is the US media the most influential in the world? Because it's one of the means of controlling the nation.
Nationalism isn't really putting national flags in your front yard. It's not repeating a pledge every morning. It's what you are taught to believe in. It's what you read in the papers. It's a country the welfare of whose is more important than the welfare of its folk. Nationalism is when you're taught hatred and you think it means love. It's creating a sense of constant fear, unease and being told that you need to make sacrifices to stop it. Then you send your children to war even if your country is not attacked. You tolerate executions not because that is what should happen to people who disagree with you, you tolerate them because you are forced to think they are your enemies. You let the government under your sheets because you are brainwashed to obey.
I have nothing against patriotism. I admire the people who gave their lives for me to be free. For me to speak Polish, not Russian or German. But loving your country does not mean not asking questions, challenging traditions and making changes. Those who don't progress, move backwards. |
Very well written and I would agree with what I know about the countries.
China! Well I have been there several times, and witnessed out of my hotel window the indonctrination of it's people. I would not say they are nationalistic at all! They have a communist regime but are capitalists at the same time. There is far to much corruption (at one point it was 17% of GDP) and polictical arrests resulting in capital punishment. It is a strange country and one that I never felt comfortable in.
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| 119. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 01:44 pm |
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Quoting janissary: to all of you that have ability to understand, from Ataturk:
Turkish youth!
Your first duty is forever to preserve and to defend the Turkish independence and the turkish republic.
This is the very foundation of your existence and your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure. in the future, too, there may be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If some day you are compelled to defend your independence and your republic, you must not tarry to weigh the possibilities and circumstances of the situation before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may turn out to be extremely unfavourable. The enemies conspiring against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. it may be that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland may be captured, all its shipyards occupied, all its armies dispersed and every part of the country invaded. And sadder and graver than all these circumstances, those who hold power within the country may be in error, misguided and may even be traitors. Furthermore, they may indentify their personal interests with the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted.
Youth of Turkey’s future,
Even in such circumstances it is your duty to save the turkish independence and republic.
The strength you need is already imbedded in your noble blood.
thank you Ataturk, thank you
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I have a great deal of respect for this statement, but I don't see why it has to be drummed into young children on a daily basis in the fashion shown in the video. What I have a problem with, is the fact that a child was leading the recital.
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| 120. |
02 Apr 2008 Wed 01:54 pm |
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Quoting Daydreamer: That was very moving, I see Ataturk was a great speaker. But what menaces are there for Turks now? What perils are there? Who is the enemy? Who wants to occupy Turkey? |
We should take these things in the right context. This address was actually made at the inauguration of the first parliament in Ankara after the abolition of the Ottoman Empire by Kemal Ataturk. The person who gave this address was a victorious commander who had defeated invading troops liberated his country and fought an equally difficult war when organizing the liberation campaign against his own Sultan. Everything he said in his speech had a reason.
It is also a rather universal speech because as it is laid out in its structure it refers to future possibilities.
The punchline is Ataturk wanted his youth to be very active, very alert and very wise. He wanted to work with pathfinders and pioneers and he personally did his best to aid people at realizing the potential in them. His adopted daughter became the first female combat pilot. In 1934, he gave full suffrage to women. French women would wait until 1941 to gain this right. In 1945 Japanese women gained suffrage. In Belgium, Italy, Romania and Yugoslavia suffrage would come as late as 1946. Just imagine being able to achieve this in a conservative Islam country.
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