Turkish Politics |
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Ergenekon (again) Tip of the iceberg of crime
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| 1. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 10:56 am |
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Cengiz ÇANDAR
Among the charges that the Ergenekon indictment covers are membership in an armed terror organization, helping the terror organization, attempting to overthrow the Turkish government by use of force and violence......
The most dramatic lawsuit:
The 2,455-page indictment charges 86 suspects, including academics, politicians, journalists and high-rank retired military officials.
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Turkey has witnessed murders by unknown perpetrators and political assassinations for decades as it has been targeted by armed sabotages and provocations. Although perpetrators were not facing the court or solving political problems by killing people seemed working in a 'chain of murders,' but they created 'public conscience' in time.
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A clean hands operation
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This is not a case of a 'land dispute' or a 'commercial suit.' This is a 'political' case which is of a great deal interest to all of us and to our life security. This is a 'political case' in which the 'murder weapon' is bombs and bullets.
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And we are the witnesses of our time and our country. We will also witness whether or not the 'political advocates' in this lawsuit that is about setting up and leading an armed gang will become 'suspects' in the case…
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/editorial.php?ed=cengiz_candar
I keep posting about this subject, but in my opinion, Turkey has NEVER come to this close to confront these fascists in her entire history. It is an historical moment for Turkey.
We will all wait and see what happens.
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| 3. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 01:25 pm |
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Thats a very unfortunate report... i wonder who is the reporter of this ways and on what basis he or she supports PKK as rebels or Kurdistan Workers' Party, as if a country like that exists.
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| 4. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 01:31 pm |
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Quoting SuiGeneris:
Thats a very unfortunate report... i wonder who is the reporter of this ways and on what basis he or she supports PKK as rebels or Kurdistan Workers' Party, as if a country like that exists. |
What is wrong with report? 
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| 5. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 01:35 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting SuiGeneris:
Thats a very unfortunate report... i wonder who is the reporter of this ways and on what basis he or she supports PKK as rebels or Kurdistan Workers' Party, as if a country like that exists. |
What is wrong with report? |
That they are called as rebels... there is a misunderstanding here... for me ofcourse... i dont expect you to think the same...
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| 6. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 01:44 pm |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: Quoting ciko: Quoting SuiGeneris:
Thats a very unfortunate report... i wonder who is the reporter of this ways and on what basis he or she supports PKK as rebels or Kurdistan Workers' Party, as if a country like that exists. |
What is wrong with report? |
That they are called as rebels... there is a misunderstanding here... for me ofcourse... i dont expect you to think the same... |
aha you mean they should have called them terrorists? i see now but those terrorist indirectly are rebelling, so it is partly true
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| 7. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 01:51 pm |
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Quoting ciko: aha you mean they should have called them terrorists? i see now but those terrorist indirectly are rebelling, so it is partly true |
i think we have better things to do than playing with words
a small group can make some rebelling as breaking down the glasses of markets of shops...
But here they are "killing" here... so these cannot be at the same level... this is my opinion ofcourse...
Yes they are terrorists and they are creating a terror...
I was there once...after seeing the dark sky red because of their bullets... believe me it cannot be called as rebelling... 
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| 8. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 01:59 pm |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: Quoting ciko: aha you mean they should have called them terrorists? i see now but those terrorist indirectly are rebelling, so it is partly true |
i think we have better things to do than playing with words
a small group can make some rebelling as breaking down the glasses of markets of shops...
But here they are "killing" here... so these cannot be at the same level... this is my opinion ofcourse...
Yes they are terrorists and they are creating a terror...
I was there once...after seeing the dark sky red because of their bullets... believe me it cannot be called as rebelling... |
well i was in sirnak cizre as a soldier and i also have been in the east as a citizen and believe me what the state created there was not very innocent. to ban speaking your own language, to ban listening to music in your own language, to ban having name in your own language, and to do nothing else except bans as a state would cause REBEL anywhere in the world, please do not speak like Turkish State was always good to people there, even the most fascist generals admitted it.
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| 9. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 02:14 pm |
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Quoting ciko:
well i was in sirnak cizre as a soldier and i also have been in the east as a citizen and believe me what the state created there was not very innocent. to ban speaking your own language, to ban listening to music in your own language, to ban having name in your own language, and to do nothing else except bans as a state would cause REBEL anywhere in the world, please do not speak like Turkish State was always good to people there, even the most fascist generals admitted it. |
I never defended Turkish State was very good to people there...And i am the one who always fights in public offices etc... when i see how they treat badly and wrong to people there... and please be careful with the style you talk and the accusations you made to me...
Whatever the government does, it doesnt give you the right to kill...I know lots of commanders were doing all they could for having OHAL continue... They should also be punished... I know lots of citizens in east keeping weapons in their houses for a PKK attack to city...
I had lots of Kurdish friends in school who was hating from PKK aswell...
Seems everybody has his own experiences...
I can call the Arabs, Kurds, Turks defend themselves in Iraq against the American British soldiers there! I can call them rebel...
"You get your rights, you shouldnt expect from governors." it was told to me by a documentary director in Taksim ages ago. But ofcourse you shouldnt get those by rifles!
Kurdish, this is not a discrimination, had always people in government! This is their fault... those bans... not the soldiers i am afraid...
Do you think PKK is fighting with those bans? I dont think so really...
My last word is, whatever happens it doesnt give them any right to kill a person... This is acceptable for both sides in logical cases!
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| 10. |
17 Jul 2008 Thu 03:10 pm |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: I never defended Turkish State was very good to people there...And i am the one who always fights in public offices etc... when i see how they treat badly and wrong to people there... and please be careful with the style you talk and the accusations you made to me...
Whatever the government does, it doesnt give you the right to kill...I know lots of commanders were doing all they could for having OHAL continue... They should also be punished... I know lots of citizens in east keeping weapons in their houses for a PKK attack to city...
I had lots of Kurdish friends in school who was hating from PKK aswell...
Seems everybody has his own experiences...
I can call the Arabs, Kurds, Turks defend themselves in Iraq against the American British soldiers there! I can call them rebel...
"You get your rights, you shouldnt expect from governors." it was told to me by a documentary director in Taksim ages ago. But ofcourse you shouldnt get those by rifles!
Kurdish, this is not a discrimination, had always people in government! This is their fault... those bans... not the soldiers i am afraid...
Do you think PKK is fighting with those bans? I dont think so really...
My last word is, whatever happens it doesnt give them any right to kill a person... This is acceptable for both sides in logical cases! |
I just would like to say that in order to really understand the Kurdish problem, one has to know the atrocities and oppression that Kurds were subjected to. Only then, can the solutions come. Also, while nobody has the right to resort to killing others, it is unfortunately commonly done. Also by governments. Turkish government is no different. So I think one has to look at the problem in this particular context, not simply as a theoretical issue. But of course, what you said was absolutely correct, I fully agree with you.
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