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Ergenekon (again) Tip of the iceberg of crime
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10.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 03:10 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

I never defended Turkish State was very good to people there...And i am the one who always fights in public offices etc... when i see how they treat badly and wrong to people there... and please be careful with the style you talk and the accusations you made to me...

Whatever the government does, it doesnt give you the right to kill...I know lots of commanders were doing all they could for having OHAL continue... They should also be punished... I know lots of citizens in east keeping weapons in their houses for a PKK attack to city...
I had lots of Kurdish friends in school who was hating from PKK aswell...
Seems everybody has his own experiences...

I can call the Arabs, Kurds, Turks defend themselves in Iraq against the American British soldiers there! I can call them rebel...

"You get your rights, you shouldnt expect from governors." it was told to me by a documentary director in Taksim ages ago. But ofcourse you shouldnt get those by rifles!

Kurdish, this is not a discrimination, had always people in government! This is their fault... those bans... not the soldiers i am afraid...


Do you think PKK is fighting with those bans? I dont think so really...

My last word is, whatever happens it doesnt give them any right to kill a person... This is acceptable for both sides in logical cases!




I just would like to say that in order to really understand the Kurdish problem, one has to know the atrocities and oppression that Kurds were subjected to. Only then, can the solutions come. Also, while nobody has the right to resort to killing others, it is unfortunately commonly done. Also by governments. Turkish government is no different. So I think one has to look at the problem in this particular context, not simply as a theoretical issue. But of course, what you said was absolutely correct, I fully agree with you.

11.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 03:15 pm

I also agree with you Catwoman, well said.

12.       ciko
784 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 03:44 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Quoting ciko:


well i was in sirnak cizre as a soldier and i also have been in the east as a citizen and believe me what the state created there was not very innocent. to ban speaking your own language, to ban listening to music in your own language, to ban having name in your own language, and to do nothing else except bans as a state would cause REBEL anywhere in the world, please do not speak like Turkish State was always good to people there, even the most fascist generals admitted it.




"You get your rights, you shouldnt expect from governors." it was told to me by a documentary director in Taksim ages ago. But ofcourse you shouldnt get those by rifles!

Do you think PKK is fighting with those bans? I dont think so really...

My last word is, whatever happens it doesnt give them any right to kill a person... This is acceptable for both sides in logical cases!



well you dont sound so humanist when soldiers kill PKK terrorists!!! i remember your saying " i would not call them even human" once..so do not pretend to be purely humanist man... Humanity is good when only it fits you. you never think and question why those young boys go to mountains and why they leave everything behind them you never think that those boys have families like turkish soldiers and mothers cry wwhen their sons die as well!

13.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 04:06 pm

Quoting ciko:

you never think and question why those young boys go to mountains and why they leave everything behind them you never think that those boys have families like turkish soldiers and mothers cry wwhen their sons die as well!


Do these mothers also cry for the people that they send their sons to kill?

14.       ciko
784 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 04:13 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting ciko:

you never think and question why those young boys go to mountains and why they leave everything behind them you never think that those boys have families like turkish soldiers and mothers cry wwhen their sons die as well!


Do these mothers also cry for the people that they send their sons to kill?



what i meant was something else, human is human,, no matter what they die for. if you think it is not right to kill people and if you say ' i dont call dying terrorist human' then i have every right to say you conflict yourself!anyway..love will come through

15.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 04:20 pm

Quoting ciko:

what i meant was something else, human is human,, no matter what they die for. if you think it is not right to kill people and if you say ' i dont call dying terrorist human' then i have every right to say you conflict yourself!


+1

Nobody would volunteer to kill people and risk their own lives if they didn't believe it was absolutely necessary.

16.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:32 pm

Quoting ciko:


well you dont sound so humanist when soldiers kill PKK terrorists!!! i remember your saying " i would not call them even human" once..so do not pretend to be purely humanist man... Humanity is good when only it fits you. you never think and question why those young boys go to mountains and why they leave everything behind them you never think that those boys have families like turkish soldiers and mothers cry wwhen their sons die as well!



First of all, i dont pretend as someone or humanist... i am just myself with my thoughts... and i have no interest in giving people names and call... i have only one name given to me by my father...

Secondly, i have very straight lines about PKK and terrorists and again i say, they die for nothing and they die without knowing what they die for, actually they also know that they are only used!!! why do you think they dont killed the person called Apo in the prison...

Why people need to go mountains? You are trying mention here as they have valid reasons to go there!!!
This is nonsense!!

A human is an animal at the begining... what makes you human and successful is your behaviours...

17.       teaschip
3870 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 05:38 pm

Quote:

Secondly, i have very straight lines about PKK and terrorists and again i say, they die for nothing and they die without knowing what they die for,



You are absolutely 100% correct. What a waste..

18.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 06:23 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

A human is an animal at the begining... what makes you human and successful is your behaviours...


A human is an animal both at the beginning and at the end. How certain behaviors are judged is somewhat relative though, mostly, actions are judged based on the circumstances, the amount of free will, the convictions of the person, the motivation... (although some absolute moral standards do apply to everybody). If you decide that a person is "human" because she/he displays "human feelings" - like love and care, then unfortunately, 98% of people will qualify, even some villains. There are true, despicable psychopaths there - like Hitler - who need to be simply eradicated, but they are exceptions. The act of murder is often a result of long time brainwashing (similar to what radical islamists go through) or severe oppression (assuming that it's a mentally normal person).

Fathers and brothers who cold bloodedly murder their daughters and sisters in so called "honor killings", Chinese or Indians who drop their baby-daughters from mountains because they wanted them to be sons, cold-blooded murderers of the so called "adultresses" in Afghanistan and other barbaric countries, terrorist attackers of 9/11, 7/7, Darfur murderers and rapists,.... Turkish military that brutalized and terrorized Kurdish villages.... etc etc etc... They are all in some way less then human, and at the same time they are also human. They probably have families, mothers and fathers that they try to protect... maybe children that they love... It is the power of human mind that we can be both very evil and very good at the same time, as we think is needed to survive.

It is exactly the ideology that Kurdish people are less then human that allowed Turkish soldiers to brutalize them. It is also what PKK soldiers must be taught to be able to murder innocent Turkish and Kurdish people. We should not go down this path... It is simply wrong that all of the fighters (Turkish and Kurdish) are inhuman. Some of them probably are, but the majority is definitely not - there must be something else going on there.

19.       ciko
784 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 06:24 pm

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Quoting ciko:


well you dont sound so humanist when soldiers kill PKK terrorists!!! i remember your saying ' i would not call them even human' once..so do not pretend to be purely humanist man... Humanity is good when only it fits you. you never think and question why those young boys go to mountains and why they leave everything behind them you never think that those boys have families like turkish soldiers and mothers cry wwhen their sons die as well!



First of all, i dont pretend as someone or humanist... i am just myself with my thoughts... and i have no interest in giving people names and call... i have only one name given to me by my father...

Secondly, i have very straight lines about PKK and terrorists and again i say, they die for nothing and they die without knowing what they die for, actually they also know that they are only used!!! why do you think they dont killed the person called Apo in the prison...

Why people need to go mountains? You are trying mention here as they have valid reasons to go there!!!
This is nonsense!!

A human is an animal at the begining... what makes you human and successful is your behaviours...



Well if you read my other posts you would see i never say they must go to mountain to solve problems. they die for nothing as you said and soldiers die for nothing as well...just our dear army and state getting more holier for people each day..but still no problem has been solved. the state and army's politics on east is just making kurdish more and more angry.

Last month a child could not get into Turkey only because he has a kurdish name.. there are thousands of samples like that.. just dont expect uneducated kurdish people to be loyal this merciful state that is feeding terrorism.

20.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Jul 2008 Thu 06:31 pm

Challenge yourselves:

Four questions that could make you a terrorist

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