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Turkish students hold a minute of silence for Palestinian childeren
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120.       azade
1606 posts
 15 Jan 2009 Thu 11:29 pm

modified. Thanks to whoever deleted the message above

121.       lady in red
6947 posts
 15 Jan 2009 Thu 11:30 pm

Tassia - I have deleted your post because of the first sentence.

122.       etimologist
156 posts
 15 Jan 2009 Thu 11:48 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Simply your points are NOT correct!!

There have been many graves in Syria..

And ´Turks could have never done such a thing because it would have been sin in Islam´ is a new way of rejecting the history!!

But I conguratulate you..It is the first time I have heard of that..

I know it is quite common the reasons ´ah but they started first´,´the number is 300.000 so not that big´, ´look at what they did in karabagh´  etc..

But what you say  is the first in this category..lol

THIS IS SECOND AND LAST ONE the topic is not what you know all people had pain but the problem is different.

So you know History better than the serious Historians.

It is not a topic related ´´they were first or they started to kill first.

before the ww1 armenians was under the authority of Ottoman empire...

They had their own Patriarch Church. They were very good at art generally. Ottoman empire took advantage of their artistic ability during 500 years. They were really loved by muslims and the government. Even they had been called Tebayi Sadikun meaning Loyal people. So they can become Vezir or Grand Vezir (Prime minister) in the Ottoman state. They were free as other nationalities in Ottoman in their religious and cultural affairs etc. Later after English intelligance service put its plan to application, thisngs started to change. Some of the armenians started horrifying attacks to the Muslims especially Kurdish muslims and they attacked Armenians who did not support them in 1890´s. This continued 20 years in a little range. During the WW1. Ottomans had 20 battlefields in war. There are lots of volunteer Armenians troops fought in www1 in the Ottoman army with Muslims. There were a lot of Armenian and Turkish martyr died in Gallipoli when fighting Anzacs. My village were neighbourhood of some armenian village. Even there were a lot of Armenian in our village and a lot of Muslim (Turks Kurds) in the armenian villages living together. They helped each other during war. They gave each other their last wheats to make breads. (during the war there were great starvation). they helped each other. But some of the separatist TASHNAK SUDYUN terorist organization armenian young (who started to live in mountains  started to kill villagers (Muslims and the unhelper Armenians). The villagers were hopeless because all of the soldiers and Gendarmaries are in the army. Not only killing but also raping the girls and wives whose husband in the army. Their torture was impossible to narrate. There were only old people, women and children and terrorist armenians (Not all of the armenians attacked actually most of them were opposite of these fanatics). Later the invasion of Russian army in anatolia deteriorated the condition for these hopeless people. Because to these terrorists, weapons were given by the Russian army. The invasion lasted nearly 1 or 2 years . During this time, 524.000 muslims and opposing armenian citizens were killed by these attacker armenians. (They do this, because they wanted Muslims migrate from their so called country to have high orthodox armenian population density)because the land was under russian invasion and ottoman goverment could do nothing. After the Russian army withdrawal (because Bolsheviks took the control, they withdrawn from the war), most of the rebellious armenian escaped with russian army. The historian Justin Mc Carthy says 80 % of the rebellious armenians (who escaped with russian army) died because of starvation. The Ottoman goverment took the control and armenians were attacked by the Turkish Kurdish people whose wifes daughers were raped or killed (not by the soldiers) for the revenge or avenge. armenian attackers were killed as revenge. The government (still in war in 20 battlefields) decided to migrate orthodox armenians (only orthodox christian armenains were forced to migrate because Russian supported orthodox armenians and unorthodox armenians were not forced to migrate they live still in Turkey. Actually unorthodox armenians (I have a lot of armenian friend here in Turkey) did not support those rapers and murderers). The goverment forced them to migrate to Syria where were under Ottoman state at that time. to prevent Muslims´ revenge. Government announced orders not to attack these armenians during the migration. The government wanted all of the orthodox armenians (who committed crimes or not) to migrate.because muslim people hated orthodox armenians and came to avenge whether they committed crimes or not. The governement did not want to allocate its some of military power (www1 was still continuing) to prevent attacks between armenians and muslims. The order was very precise. Those attacking armenians during migration will be executed. Some of the armenians died because of muslims attack. some of them were killed by soldiers also. (After transportaion 60 Ottoman soldiers and muslimswere sentenced to death and executed since they attacked armenians during migration). Ther were a lot of armenians died because of illnesses. some of them died after migration but most of them arrived alive. Justin Mc carthy says that %20 of the armenian were killed because of attacks, starvation, illnesses etc. So it is very normal to have graves in Syria. But they are not genocide graves. they are normal graves. Some of them returned their village after www1 and most of them migrated america, argentinia, france and other countries. Here both sides had pain. this is correct But this unwanted event was not an Jenocide. The problem is not what happened. the problem is armenians says this was a genocide but turks says no it was not a genocide there are lots of dead in both sides. the migration was not a genocide. If it has been a genocide there would have not been many armenians migrated u.s.a argentinia or france and even in Turkey. There should be no one to propose it was a genocide. Most of them were alive.

Turkish side accepts there were a lot of armenian dead but says there were also alot of muslim dead. and goverment had nothing to do other than migration. Armenians say it was a planned genocide. they started 300.000 deaths later they raised the number up to 1500.000 deaths.

it is shortly as I said

you can search

the rest is propaganda

Turkish archives are open for people but armenians archive is not open. In armenia you can not say there is no genocide but in turkey you can say there is or there is not

the history will decide

There are alot of armenians living in argentina who are the migrator or migrator´s children. They still carry their Ottoman state passport (they say I carry this passport with honour) and they are still in Turkish citizenship and they refuse to leave Turkish citizenship.

Before believing sometihng you should search for the truth. The truth is not what is on the media. Just listen the other side claims one time.

Justin Mc Carthy is a scholar in this topic he is an american not turk.

Just log in the internet and search you will see how history can be changed by propaganda.        

123.       etimologist
156 posts
 15 Jan 2009 Thu 11:52 pm

I can show you big graves of muslims killed (what I mean by "big grave" is the grave in which there are tousands dead bodies) of muslims

124.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 12:11 am

 

Quoting etimologist

I can show you big graves of muslims killed (what I mean by "big grave" is the grave in which there are tousands dead bodies) of muslims

 

I think I will not post anything about it etimologist.

In earlier threads we made our points in this subject.. We gave all the numbers etc and we  tried to explain what went on during that period according to what we know..

125.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 03:59 am

A different subject re: USA - Now I Understand why they hate us, by David Hilfiker, Alter Net

 

(long, worth reading)

 

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/119065/

126.       femmeous
2642 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 10:10 am

 

Quoting lady in red

Tassia - I have deleted your post because of the first sentence.

 

 again? i havent read it

127.       femmeous
2642 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 10:20 am

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AY0zE64thJ4

 

there are other many hate cartoons made in muslim countries.

 

no where in the world they teach hatred to their children but only in muslim countries.

128.       lady in red
6947 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 10:23 am

 

Quoting Roswitha

A different subject re: USA - Now I Understand why they hate us, by David Hilfiker, Alter Net

 

(long, worth reading)

 

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/119065/

 

Ros - this is completely off topic - you say so yourself ´A different subject´ - why didn´t you just open a new thread?

129.       lady in red
6947 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 10:25 am

 

Quoting etimologist

THIS IS SECOND AND LAST ONE the topic is not what you know all people had pain but the problem is different.

So you know History better than the serious Historians.

Quoting etimologist

I can show you big graves of muslims killed (what I mean by "big grave" is the grave in which there are tousands dead bodies) of muslims

 

 

Etimologist - the topic of this thread is ´Turkish Students hold a minute´s silence for Palestian Children´ not Turkish history.

130.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 Jan 2009 Fri 10:25 am

 

Quoting Roswitha

A different subject re: USA - Now I Understand why they hate us, by David Hilfiker, Alter Net

 

(long, worth reading)

 

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/119065/

 

 Havent read ´t all yet,but agree worth reading

Ý agree with that comment too

 

´´The majority of the world loved USA, it´s people and it´s culture, it was a symbol of freedom (the American dream was also a dream for people around the world) in a time not so long ago.´´

 

Ý remember there was times when we were younger,you could hear such question

Do you love your country more or USA ?

Yes,the American dream was also a dream of people from other countries,but i agree..not anymore !

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