DTP speaks Kurdish in parliament, speaker says constitutional breach

The leader of the pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) gave a Kurdish speech in his address during the party´s parliamentary group meeting.....

Ahmet Turk announced during his parliamentary address that he would continue his speech in Kurdish "in the name of the brotherhood and beauty of the languages".   

Turk spoke Turkish for several minutes before switching. He said he was speaking Kurdish in recognition of the U.N. cultural body UNESCO´s International Mother Language Day this week to promote linguistic and cultural diversity and multilingualism.

"Turkey must save itself from the shame of banning a tongue in this era," he said in Turkish.  "Everyone should understand that requesting an end to the ban on Kurdish is an extremely natural request," he added.

Turkish state television TRT cut the live Parliament TV broadcast of the group meeting of pro-Kurdish party DTP when Turk started speaking in Kurdish.

...

A former deputy from a pro-Kurdish party had been jailed in 1995 for speaking Kurdish at an inauguration ceremony in parliament.

....

The speaker however said Turk would not face penalties for defying the law.

.......

"This is a provocative move against the democratic reforms made by the government," he told CNNTurk.

But the main opposition party accused TRT of censorship.  

.....

The nationalist opposition party said both the parliamentary address made by the DTP leader and the launch of TRT 6 are wrong.

..

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11073597.asp?scr=1

I love the way how parties reactions differ..

Addition: according to some Turkish sources,  an agreement between pkk and Turkey to bring down PKK from the mountains is very close

The plan includes an amnesty which will be implemented bit by bit (so that nationalists wont notice what is going on ) and leaders of pkk will be sent to EU countries..

I think, there might be some more political development after the coming elections..

Considering Pkk has declared a cease fire and ergenekon members are too busy with their own future, there is a place for optimism..

I hope they can agree and we see the end of this ugly war..

Ankara reticent but not dismissive of PKK amnesty

Foreign Ministry spokesman Burak Özügergin said Turkish authorities have been assessing several measures to be taken against the PKK.

The government declined to comment yesterday on whether it would agree to grant amnesty to members of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers´ Party (PKK) to pave the way for the terrorist group to lay down its arms but did not dismiss prospects for such a step either, leaving the amnesty option on the table.

...

Efforts to bring the PKK members down from mountain hideouts have been held in secrecy ...

News reports have said officials from the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) of Kurdish leader Massoud Barzani are engaged in talks with the PKK, negotiating a scheme under which the group will lay down its arms in return for an amnesty for its members over a certain period of time. The Taraf daily said yesterday that the Turkish military, which strongly opposed any dialogue with the Iraqi Kurds in the past, was also not raising any objection to such a scheme. ...

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=167905

This is perfect news.. 

What a shame that no one cared to respond to your article...

These indifferent bastards...

jiiiizzz....husss....

O oi. Stop insulting my country men by calling them bastards. There is still 301 there you know..

Are you saying you are going to break the code of honour and snitch on me to the authorities? I have got some dirt on you, too. if I am going down, you are coming with me...

he he 

do not worry..I have never done that ´giving to the authorites thing´ in my entire life.. I know what waits for them.

But i will always object the people calling my country men bastards..

 Well I have to agree with this....

 How you agree with that and according to which bases?

How many people are talking in Kurdish in Turkey? and how many talks in Turkish?

It was a damn provacative show for him to Talk in Kurdish, he would talk in Kurdish to the new TRT6 channel i have nothing against that, but if he is talking to a TV which is broadcasted in everywhere... no way...

It was a cheap show nothing else!

How do I agree with it?  It is called civil liberty.  How on earth can you justify banning a language?

Perhaps you think we should ban all the millions of Turks, Pakistanis, Indians, Chinese, Polish...etc. in the UK from speaking their own language too? 

 How can you come with this conclusion i never understand! Maybe you work too much?

Look girl, no body bans speaking kurdish for people and they already talk...  everybody speaks what they want...

but we talk about the minister of a political party and his show he makes in a place... where it has its own rules and stuff... you are choosen there to fix somethings... then you come up with solutions and alternative ways for also to be able to make your annoucements in Kurdish...

If you talk only kurdish there, you mean that you can only be a solution for people who knows kurdish... not for the rest...

Easy, I only have to look at the ban your country enforced until 1991 on ANYONE speaking Kurdish and the fact that the ban is still in place for anyone to use Kurdish as their first language...

Dont resort to insults please Sui and do not call me "girl" - ok?

Would you like me to refer to you as "boy" when posting?

  you all the time give me names i am used to it no problems

 What names have I called you?

there was a support/protest related to PKK and to their leader Abdullah Ocalan here in Wien, a few days ago and they were shouting in German? why not in Kurdish?

what is your official language dear? Can i talk in Turkish if it is not an orginized speach in your cabinet? how many people who watches BBC would understand me

What was done in the past was wrong maybe i dont say anything to that... but with looking to what i see now... instead of making shows in the cabinet! They should work more!

Internal affairs Minister was also a Kurdish person once upon a time! It is them to be blamed not the rules...

talk talk talk talk... thats what all they do...

 Now you have started to forget huh? never mind... take it easy...

 No examples?

That is because you can find none. 

 I dont need to find clues dear

everybody knows how uncontrolled and sharp your tongue is

The official language is English.  We have a part of the UK (Wales) where they speak a different language and have a separate parlement which can lesgislate for that part of the UK too.

The BBC also produces and broadcasts programmes in many languages...

 Can´t you speak for yourself, or do you only feel power when you use the word "we" and "everyone"

I have never called you names Sui, so don´t trouble yourself to look.  I have made sarcastic comments - maybe you are still smarting from them boy!

* Oh look, I just called you a name for the first time!

But there is no part in Turkey thats the thing you should understand!!

Ah ah... i guess you are getting old...

but neyse... i think i am clever enough to understand the difference between sarcasm and insulting and saying boy is sarcastic... but what you have done was insult before...

but dont worry no hard feelings

 THere are no borders with Wales either - we just respect their language and culture

 I called you "boy" because you called me "girl"....but have not done such a thing before...I think you must be working too hard

Yeah I am older and wiser

Sui,  i am very sure that hearing people speaking kurdish in a bus would bother you as much as the chairman of that party did. the reason you ( general you ) react this way is not because the speech was on TV or parliamentary. it is just because you cant bear "OTHER". i have to love Ataturk, speak Turkish, be a Kemalist and be sunni to be a proper citizen of this country. otherwise,  no matter what i do, i will be always unwanted by the system and its brainless crowd  as socialists and religious muslims and Alevis and Kurdish have been done in last 85 years.

 Believe me, i dont mind them what they talk... even in of my relatives wedding his friends from his work were was dancing and having fun with a few kurdish songs...

But if this is hurting or damaging some other people, ofcourse i would say a no... but as long as they dont harm anyone...

nobody is expecting you to love Ataturk, i believe you have your own mind and brain to decide it... do whatever you want unless you harm me... thats all i say...

 older and wiser... at least you think so

 This is a bit of a naughty comment from you Sui

i dont expect you to understand what i meant actualy but at least you could see i didnt mean you personally.

Nobody expects me to love Ataturk? is that why millions of kids are made to oath  to be lolay to Ataturk in ever single morning ? and thank you for letting people to dance in weddinds. how good and tolerant you are.

 This is the summary of "what does freedom mean?"

 just wanted to add that theres no other parlement in turkiye as well

wooow you both are so impressive talkers

It is not personal but there are huge number of people who thinks like me... and it is increasing...

No body can deny what Ataturk has done for this country... I have a kurdish and also alevi friend who adores him, and it is not because he has give those oathes he reads and learns from his ancestors thats what he tells me...

On the other hand, i dont think anyone can be affected to love someone or not... and in this century, i dont give a chance... because the kids are becoming more clever and foxy so i dont expect them to love Ataturk, but i expect them to be some respectful, not because he was leader once... but at least he is dead now, personally...

and in the oathes it is only purposed to love the country i used to hate to stand there... but it is your fault that if the people you elected is not giving a damn to this...

 i didnt read all the thread and didnt mean that i completely agree with him. i just added something to his sentence. cuz what enigma said is not a good example, it is something said to be just said...

 Why?

 They are still subject to UK laws, it is not a separate parliament, but a regional one...

 Really interested and waiting for your answer Sui ...

 and pls go back to read my posts before you  make decision about what a talker i am

i know i know

a wind talker?

i wish i had time to do it but now i have to go to Kadýköy for the match sorry! Viva Fenerbahçe

 god i wish i was there now u got me  ok then lets talk about those things later.

 that was not nice  femme, or i got you wrong?

of course you have that negative thing on your mind gotcha

i had something different thing in my head when posting

have you ever watched "the wind talkers"?

 no ive never watched it. ok sorry then  i got you wrong  cuz in turkish we(not all turks) use it to make fun of the talker

im still waiting for an explanation of your two posts above enigma and seriously i wanna know what is it exactly..

You seriously want to know more about the Welsh Assembly?(!).  Maybe you think my posts contradict eachother? 

The Welsh Assembly is a "devolved assembly".  It has powers to make legislation in Wales but is still subject to the veto of British Parliament.

 This doesn´t really answer my question does it?  Are you scared to say it openly?

I asked you what you meant when you said to Chiko "do whatever you want unless you harm me... thats all i say..."?

oh i have so much missed this welsh assembly i remember hairy once its member

 Hehe yes.  The Welsh Assembly and theH are almost synonymous

 yeah seems they do and im trying to get the point of you giving them as an example,thats why im asking ... and ive never heard about them so i wanna know who are they and what they want.

do they want to make that part of UK their own country or make their own parliament and law? why they are subject to UK?

 This is going a bit offtopic!!  It was an example of people in the UK who speak a different language and may make local parliamentary decision themselves.

Maybe BECAUSE of this they don´t need to go to extremes....

 ummm so they have the right to make their local parliamentary decision themselves or is it legal?? i got  a bit confused. can u explain more as you answer my questions please. if u dont want to or if u cant be bovvered  i understand you..

 Well it IS confusing...even Wikipedia admits it!  Here is a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Assembly_for_Wales

 ok what i understood from reading it is that they have a government and do their own elections...also found some of your sentences there you could answer my questions by saying yes or no i see that u dont even know about them very well but u giving them as an example.

anyway,i got that they are nothing to do with the subject was being talked about today.that was what i was trying to understand.

thank you

 Actually it had a lot to do with the topic - it was in reply to Sui asking if we have people in the UK who are allowed to talk their own language in parliament   I did not copy any sentences from Wiki, but did check the Welsh Assembly site to check that what I was saying was correct - is that a problem?

Your fixation about the Welsh Assembly is off topic though yes.  

And..here is the site in the Welsh Language!

http://wales.gov.uk/legislation/?skip=1&lang=cy

And I think my point here is clear - if we can do this in the UK, why do you react so strongly against Kurds merely speaking Kurdish in parliament in Turkey?

Now, this is some bogus reasoning.

Why do we react so strongly against Kurds merely speaking Kurdish in parliment in Turkey, if you guys can do it in the UK?

Let´s see. For one thing, we are not a parlimentary monarchy like the UK nor are we a united confederation.

Additionally, which Kurdish language would you prefer to hear in the Turkish parliment? There is the Zaza dialect, for instance, and the Kurmanji. Most Zaza speakers cannot understand Kurmanji at all, and Kurmanji speakers cannot understand Zaza. Within each dialect, there are also sub-dialects, which complicate things even further. According to you, which Kurdish dialect should become the second official language of the Republic of Turkey? Or, whould we have both dialects, and have three official languages?

Should Arabic become a second official language in France. 1.5 out of 10 in France today is either a Muslim with a North African background or speaks Arabic as their first language. Should the Pakistanis and Indians press for their parlimentary linguistic rights, and demand that it is spoken in the British parliment? Should the Hispanics in the US demand that Spanish becomes the second official language in the US?

I agree with the point that people should not be suppressed for speaking their mother tongues. People in Turkey should not be harrassed for speaking Kurdish at home or on the street. Over the years, much has changed, and you can actually hear a lot of people speaking Kurdish openly on the street without getting arrested. Neither Kurdish music nor Kurdish literature is banned. The movement is toward the positive not the negative end of the spectrum.

It is one thing to criticize the oppression of the Kurdish language in a socio-cultural dimension, and it is another thing to argue that it should become a second official language and be spoken in the parliment. The Republic of Turkey is not a confederation like Switzerland nor is it anything like the UK. At a political level, the language of the Republic of Turkey is Turkish. It doesn´t matter if you are a Kurd, an Armenian, a Circassian, or a Yezidi, the langauge of the parliment is Turkish. There is nothing wrong with that.

We don´t really have to take the UK as a role model in anything at all. You have got your own system, and we have got our own. You also have got your own delicious history of oppressing your minorities (as well as the foreign lands that you colonized), and we have got our own.

I don`t really see your point.

Because of and you likes DO NOT see the point or dragging your feet for not  seeing the point,  my country gave 40.000  (may be more) dead and still spending huge amount money for the war which could be easily prevented  if you are able to SEE the point. 

People in Turkey have been harrased and supressed because of using their mother tongue.

That is the FACT.

In the same parliment, some presidents spoke in their own languages and every MP seemed as happy as Larry when they were listening to him. Again, in the same parliment MPs were taken to the jail years ago because they spoke Kurdish!!

(Very same MP who spoke Kurdish in the parliment in this case -Ahmet Turk- could not speak with his mother when he was in jail because his mother did not know Turkish)

The problem is not that ´in the parliment only official languages are spoken´, the problem has been ´any language can be spoken apart from kurdish in Turkey´ 

Basically, years after years we have made the life hell for our own people because of this oppression and obsession.

This has been the problem.

This is the point you are denying to see..

Let me tell you one very very important thing:

Some people speak English

Turks speak Turkish

Kurds speak Kurdish

I know it is suprising. is it not?

Geez..It took 40.000 people dead to understand this surprising fact!!

About UK being an example for Turkey? why the hell not? is it better  people get oppressed or get killed?

Is it not the same reason similar such as ´we are Turks, we are unique ,our problems are different, our neighbours are different, or  excuses we have been hearing all those years?

UK can be a great example about how ´elegantly´ these problem can be solved. 

But of course, you have to see and acknowledge the problem  first.

Since some of us refusing to see that HUGE point, we are coming to ´why this generation will not have it´

But lets reapeat alltogether:

"Kurds speak Kurdish, Turks speak Turkish".

I am hoping that it will stick into our brains in the end.

I was replying to THIS post - is that ok with you?

 This is completely different - I am not suggesting that immigrants should be permitted to speak their own language in parliament.  You do not need to lecture me about immigrants - we know more about them than you do".

 Again, I was replying to Sui´s question.  Yes we colonized, oppressed and are happy to criticise our history (and present).  Come back and argue when you can do the same.

 Ouh how ignorant I am

Yes I see your point completely.  These Kurds are immigrants - how dare they demand rights!  Let me just see if I got my history right.... when the Turkish Republic was formed it consisted of just pure blood Turks.  Then nasty Armenians, Kurds and Greeks moved in.......?

 Are you ok?

I am starting get suspicious about your health really...

Even though you are trying to be sarcastic... its sooo awful to hear such things...

I am sure  she was being sarcastic but the truth is that we kicked out Armenians and Greeks years ago but kurds were quite numerous so we could not do that. 

This is the article caught my eye this morning.

Though it is not relevant directly to Ahmet Turk speaking kurdish in the parliment, but it tells us what mistakes we have been making all along ragarding  our Kurdish Problem:

..

One obvious example we encounter is the use of the word Kurd. For years we tried not to use the word Kurd.

We feared if we used the word Kurd some people would remember they were Kurdish. We couldn’t comprehend that even if we did not use the word Kurd and tried to make them forget they still would not give up their Kurdish identity. As a matter of fact, even though so many years have passed, we see today that nobody forgot about their Kurdish identity but only deceived us. ...

We have a hidden fear inside us. We are concerned that if we use this word someday there will be a Kurdistan established in some part of our country. For a substantial part of our society this is a valid fear. Thus we constantly call it northern Iraq. We justify ourselves by saying "We respect Iraq’s territorial integrity and call it that because we want to show that we oppose the Kurd’s wish for independence."

In contrast, the Iraqi Constitution states it as the "Iraqi Kurdistan Autonomous Region." A similar definition is present in Iran. This means that Iraq and Iran have no such worries. But we have not been able to get rid of our suspicions....

full article

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/opinion/11136802.asp?yazarid=298&gid=260

Actually Armenians forced Turks to kick themselves.

There was mutual agreement between Turks and Greeks to exchange population. So we didn´t kick them.

What makes you think we should have kicked the Kurds. We fought together against the condors occupying Anatolia.

No we cannot do the same. We didn´t colonized, we didn´t oppressed. Not much to citicise on our part.

What is the percentage of Welsh spoken in Wales, Scottish in Scotland and Irish in Eire? Poor guys, most of them cannot speak their language, right?

Go ad search about  what rights Basque Regions in France have. Education, Law, TV, Radio.... everything is in their own language. And to compare Kurdish  in Turkey to immigrants in Europe is the lowest comment in this site.

ha ha

You are still at the same rethoric with the armenian issue: "yes, we did it, if necessary we will do it again"

Lets do not get into  how our primitive nationalism got rid of Greeks from Turkey..The history will embarres us as it was more than just a agreement for exchanging the population. 

yes..we fought together but years later we start going at them with  ´one nation one state´ slogans..

you are joking..Right?

Actually the two cases are not similar. It is more or less like this.

Assume that:

There is no Scottish parliament and there is a Scotland Party in the House of Lords. All the parties in the parliament get together weekly in a hall for a party group meeting and their party leaders´ weekly addresses are broadcast by BBC to the whole UK. Scotland party leader talks in English normally but this time he decides to speak in his mother tongue Scottish. And this is broadcast by BBC to the whole UK.

What makes you think so?

Agreed..

And so it seems to be the same in Canada:

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Default.aspx?aType=R...5.03.2009&CategoryID=98

it says:

Bu iki resmî dilin yaný sýra isteyen kendi anadiliyle eðitim veren okul açma ve hizmet isteme hakkýna sahiptir ve bu hak anayasayla korunma altýna alýnmýþtýr.

"Apart from two official languages, everybody has right to ask for education and service to be provided in their own language and this right is protected by the constitution"

I believe, if it was the case, there would not be a Kurdish problem right now in Turkey..

"How can you explain it some parts of Turks" is the real challange!!

So what? what is the big deal about it?

"According to Article 2 of the Constitution, French is the sole official language of France since 1992. This makes France the only Western European nation (excluding microstates) to have only one officially recognised language. However, 77 regional languages are also spoken, in metropolitan France as well as in the overseas departments and territories. Until recently, the French government and state school system discouraged the use of any of these languages, but they are now taught to varying degrees at some schools"

I think cynicmistic saw the point well. He did not deny that speaking kurdish was oppressed, but he said that making it the official language was different. The solutions to these two are completely different.

You say "Turks speak Turkish and Kurds speak Kurdish", so what´s your point now to say this in response to his post since he did not deny it, do you defend that Kurdish language should be spoken in the one parliemant? So, all of us have to know Kurdish and Turkish?

Or we will become foreign to each other in the same country, we will have two different parliments because we accept that there are two different people with two different languages?

 i dont react the turkish constitution says that no other language allowed in any parliament or in a group meeting.

hearing you say why? they have some reasons to make it law.

anyway. believe me my point was different and maybe u couldnt understand. im NOT against kurds.I am the one of those who thinks turkish government should have opened a kurdish tv many years ago.cuz there are lots of kurds cant speak or understand turkish and they dont even know whats going on in turkey.some of them think that istanbul is an other country.can u believe that? but its true! it never bothers me when i hear someone speaking kurdish or other languages e.g. laz language,circassian,turkoman,bosnian,zaza language or armenian.

i wish we could live together really peaceful but we cant and we dont even wanna see that why we cant so its our fault.

 I think you need to study your own country´s history

 I never said you were, and I agree with what you write above!

I have no argument with you - you asked about the Welsh Assembly and I replied. 

 Typical answer from you, why not just correct my misinformation?

Instead you prefer to question my sanity

Go ahead. Teach me what you think I don´t know about my own country´s history.

 The most convenient source of statistics to hand is a survey published by the Welsh Office, Arolwg Cymdeithasol Cymru 1992: adroddiad ar y Gymraeg published about March 1995. It showed that 21.5% of the population of Wales (590800 people) speak Welsh; this divides into 32.4% of 3-15 year olds, 17.8% of 16-29s, 16.7% of 30-44s, 18.7% of 45-64s and 24.2% of over 65s. 55.3% of them (326600, 12% of the population) are first-language speakers, meaning someone who spoke more Welsh than English as a child at home. 13.4% of the population of Wales claims to be fluent in Welsh, and 66.1% claim no knowledge of Welsh at all.

Are you saying we should ignore minorities?

 i know i just told that for you not to get me wrong.

and i just wanted to tease you and  see if your playing fair or not when arguing

????

The question here was never as ´do we allow two different languages in the parliment?´

Even Ahmet Turk who made that infamous speach, would deny that..

But the question is how a ´simple and symbolic act´ can become a big neusance for certain Turks.

That is the "proven point" here..

The incident itself by its nature the result of the oppression which you are accepting above..(You also accepted that in your Turkish post too..that was the reason why I thanked you for that)

And I am glad that we came up to the point now that we do accept there was an oppression and we have to blame ourselves first rather than blaming uk, germany, eu, usa and patagonia..

I only asked if most of them can speak their own language. Your numbers show that they forgot to speak their language. only 12% of the population. Pretty soon they will be obsolete, I am afraid.

Is there a Kurdish language or rather we should say Zaza, Kýrmançi, Sorani?

We are just beginning to warm up to the words ´kurd, kurdistan, kurdish´ at the moment.

I guess they will be dealt as minor details later on..

 Colonisation: 

Was the Ottoman Empire a fairy tale?

Oppression:

• Between 1925 and 1991 speaking Kurdish publically or performing Kurdish songs was banned.
• "Human Rights Watch documents that the Turkish military forcibly evacuated villages, destroying houses and equipment to prevent the return of the inhabitants. An estimated 3,000 Kurdish villages in Turkey were virtually wiped from the map, representing the displacement of more than 378,000 people."
• There is oppression EVERYWHERE which affects anyone in public life including authors and poets.  Rule 301 is not oppression? Even such websites as YouTube are banned!

I will not stoop so low as to mention the Armenians.

 actually your right but not many people know the difference especially foreigners.

 Actually on this you are wrong.  Statistics show that in recent years more and more young Welsh are learning their language and proud to speak it.  And why not?

Perhaps you were not able to understand the figures I posted?

This divides into 32.4% of 3-15 year olds, 17.8% of 16-29s, 16.7% of 30-44s, 18.7% of 45-64s and 24.2% of over 65s.

 Plus.. it makes no difference to the argument

actually.. to arguing about these thigs makes no difference as well

Anyway. So you think it will increase? No problem then. I guess it should be similar for Scots and Irishes as well. No?

 Yes you are right.  If arguing makes you stressed and angry then it is to be avoided.  If you find it enjoyable, then why not?

 The Scots and Irish speak germanic and gaelic languages.  They rarely spoken now - but not because of any law or oppression

These cannot be compared to what Brits did.

Ever heard of Pax Ottomana? Look at the mess now in the Middle East and Balkans.

Ottoman Empire ended because of its debts. Look at the Brits, they are still feeding themselves from their colonies.

I am not denying our history, so therefore your point is irrelevent 

You stated that Turkey had not oppressed or colonised, and I proved you wrong

I made no such statement about Britain

 nope it doesnt make me angry or stressed. i mean we cant even solve those problems in turkiye and arguing about them with foreigners.its kinda funny

 Does it upset you to argue about it with foreigners?  After all this is a site about Turkey, so most subjects are going to be about Turkey

Ottomans didn´t colonise. They expanded their territory and then lost during their decline. They only taxed their Christian subject. Other than that they set them free. No opression. They are innocent when compared to what you did.

I do not state that the Ottomans were oppressive... again you are reading more into my comment than exists.  I merely said that you colonised.  The definition of colonised is "take up residence and become established" which I believe you did during the Ottoman Empire.  I am not criticising the Ottomans, just stating fact

Colony -- a geographical area politically controlled by a distant country

You are splitting hairs now   Your dictionary is different to mine?  So?  Sorry but I won´t waste time arguing about your trivia.  I have heard Turks describe "The Ottoman Empire" ... see what your dictionary defines as "empire".

I think you are just upset to be proved wrong and will argue all day now.... unfortunately I don´t have time canim

 see the top of the site it says

FREE ONLINE TURKISH LANGUAGE RESOURCE

it never upsets me i know what u trying to do now oh so clever  i said that it was kinda funny  ha ha  you know what is haha?

There were wonderful, I agree.  So liberal...during the Ottoman era, Armenians, Jews, Greeks all lived in peace and people had the right to speak their own language. 

You must be sad that modern Turkey is so different canim.  Oppression and people made slaves to Kemalism... no wonder you look to Ottomans and sigh "if only"....

No I am happy living in TC. I am only dreaming maybe I would be living in Balkans now where my Grandfathers used to live if we hadn´t  been pushed out of there.

 You live in Turkish Class?

Yeah we were an Empire but not like yours. Your banks are full of money you brought from your colonies and you feed yourselves on them.

What´s left to us from our empire only the debts we had to pay.

TC=Türkiye Cumhuriyeti (that is Republic of Turky)

 Again, I never said we were perfect - but you painted Turkey like they were angels!

Anyway, it was a great discussion thanks

Have a great day y´all

I see that you had to edit it 3 times...

Typos, or just anger, hehe...?

 Ignorant? For sure...

Is that what my post said? Try readin without your blindfolds... You may understand better.

Hmmmm

Before this "TC will show all your edits" I used to type them at 90 mph and then go back and edit any mistakes!  I have still not learned my lesson

Is this your only reply?

 Be careful man. You know very well that facts do not go well with handyman´s lack of logic. you may confuse him...

 No, he actually didn´t paint Turkey like they were angels. He just responded to numerous booty wipes, who constantly attempt to paint Turks as demons.

 You still haven´t answered whether you preferr Zaza or Kurmanji by the way...

 Exactly.  Perhaps he should keep his temper and stick to the facts instead of trying to take revenge like a child...

 It is irrevelent to the discussion.  Include all your regional languages.

Which languages would those be?

I think the only irrelevance are the ignorant foreigners talking about crap that they don´t happen to know much about.

I fail to see what your point is?  I have no knowledge of either of the languages you mention - I see no reason why that makes a difference in your argument.  Kurds were speaking Kurdish (whatever dialect you choose to name!) in the region that is now Turkey during the Ottoman empire and until 1925, when it is subsequently banned until 1991.  Therefore that makes it a "regional language" and it should be respected as such.

Yes I am completely ignorant... is that your best defence?  I expected more from YOU (I expect so little from Si++ )

I think this post came into  some conclusions:

1-First of all we have a ´Kurdish problem´ despite the fact people still trying to ignore it with "foreign powers" etc. 

2- This problem is created by us by not giving simple and basic rights to some people who happened to be citizens of Turkey opposing to considering them as immigrants. (examples were shown from various countries about how they solved this type primitive-nationalistic problems)

3- ´Only terrorism´ as an idea seems quite smelly, nobody buys it anymore.

4-Turks speak Turkish, Kurds speak Kurdish.

5- With s++´s admission and cystic´s approval, "we did kick out of the Armenians"!! (btw..if Turkey goes to an international court and if Turkey defends herself like s++ with cystic´s logic, Turkey will lose it in the first session)

Thank you for all your coorperation!!

ps. Nobody should get worried.. I am not going to ask and embarres anybody with the question: ´why the hell you were opposing me in the first place´

.

I think one official national language is a good idea. If official proceedings have to be in many different languages it is counterproductive.

We have a similar situation in the US with Spanish language issue. In this case, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo is interpreted to have included the Spanish language into the treaty for the previously Spanish speaking territories. 

However, if anyone wants to be efficient and effective, they had better learn English.

Many countries have problems with official languages. I like the Norwegian attitude - they have 2 standard forms - Bokmal (sp?) and Ny-Norsk plust a zillion dialects that have the status of official languages. If I´m not mistaken, anybody writing to any kind of office in his/her own dialect has the right to demand that they answer in the same dialect. Sometimes that´s a problem. My Norwegian friend who lives far north told me she had serious problems in Oslo as she was barely understood

Wow - anger finally brought out your true colours.  It is not a particularly informative post, but what it lacks in content it compensates as an insight into your zealous xenophobic world...

Thank you

"kick" was TheH´s word.

I´m just a soul whose intentions are good. Oh Lord, please don´t let me be misunderstood.

  - you made me laugh out loud!  Its good to finally see some humour from you!

Aha!  So you admit you are an Animal eh?

 I can relate to those words - great song by the way!!!

Now, Obama is going to visit Turkey soon and he will be addressing  Turkish parliment.

We are hoping that he will speak Turkish since the official language in the parliment is Turkish only.  

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11205965.asp?gid=243

 Ouh hehehe made me laugh

 Will he say ´Ben Türküm?´

Edit: TheH., seni çokkkkkkkkk seviyorum!

Ha ha

I think he will say something such as ´Ben de Turkum. Döneri ben çok seviyor. Ã¾iþ kebap çok guzel´

Edit : Ben de seni  Trudy..

 no, he will say: ben seni seviyorum, erdoganim, canim!

He has no place to give a speach in Turkish Parliment, he is not a minister nor a diplomat in Republic of Turkey. If they make such thing, this shows how week Turkish government is...

That parliament, to my mind, is to be able to speak the problems of Turkey and to find solutions to them.

As used to he will be coming together with the president of Turkey and have some meetings.

This is what it is supposed to be. We pay them to find solutions to problems of Turkey, not to listen a speech of a president of somewhere in the world.

I think this is not the first time. In the past, if I am not wrong, Many presidents addressed the parliment, including Clinton. 

This was also wrong... No matter what, that is not the place for such issues... Everybody should know, understand and behave according to his state...

If something like that happens, that means that we accept him over our national assembly...

It is much more like a gesture. It does not mean that whoever speaks there him or her is above the parliment.

I definitely agree, but check out newspapers, even the turkish media calls the president of america "the president Obama" as if he is the president of turkey. I wonder why don`t they say "the president Ahmedinejad".

it`s called "yalakalik"

Just calm down boys..

It is just a gesture.. I am sure many other presidents from other countries have spoken in Turkish parliment..

It does not mean our sovereignity is at stake..

In the end, we Turks are famous with our hospitality..

why don`t you allow your representatives speak Pakistani in the parliement Ms. Aenigma? why do you suppress Pakistanis ("Pakis" in British English in case you don`t understand)?

 I dont believe that they enough time to spend for gestures or whatever!

I told you... let them have a meal in the restaurant and send invitation to all cabinet members and let Obama or Mobama give a speech there?

Not clear enough?

Every place has some meaning... and they are supposed to be used in their meanings... not for shows or whatever...

This is the list of people spoken to Turkish parliment in the past apperantly:

As you can see..

I told you ..

It is just a gesture.. 

Clear enough?

-Federal Almanya Meclis Baskani Gerstenmaier (1964) 

  -SSCB Parlamento Kurulu Baskani Nikolay Podgorni (1965) 

  -Tunus Cumhurbaskani Habib Burgiba (1965) 

  -Kazakistan Yüksek Surasi Baskani Serikbolsun Abdildin (1992) 

  -Bosna-Hersek Basbakan Yardimcisi Muhammet Cengiç (1992) 

  -Azerbaycan Cumhurbaskani Ebulfeyz Elçibey (1992) 

  -KKTC Cumhurbaskani Rauf Denktas (1993, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004) 

  -Azerbaycan Cumhurbaskani Haydar Aliyev (1994, 1997 ve 2001) 

  -Kirgizistan Cumhuriyeti Cumhurbaskani Askar Akayev (1994) 

  -Gürcistan Devlet Baskani Eduard Sevardnadze (1996) 

  -Romanya Cumhurbaskani Emil Constanstinescu (1997) 

  -Bulgaristan Cumhurbaskani Petar Stoyanov (1997) 

  -Arnavutluk Cumhurbaskani Recep Meydani (1998) 

  -Hindistan Meclis Baskani G.M.C Balayogi (1998) 

  -ABD Baskani Bill Clinton (1999) 

  -Ürdün Krali Abdullah Bin Al Huseyin (200 

  -Polonya Cumhurbaskani Aleksandr Kwasniewski (200 

  -Türkmenistan Meclis Baskani Sahad Muradov (200 

  -Ukrayna Cumhurbaskani Leonid Kuchma (200 

  -AB Komisyonu Baskani Romano Prodi (2004) 

  -Pakistan Cumhurbaskani Pervez Müserref (2004) 

  -Avrupa Parlamentosu Baskani Pat Cox (2004) 

  -Azerbaycan Cumhurbaskani Ilham Aliyev (2004) 

  -Avrupa Parlamentosu Baskani Josep Borell (2004) 

  -AB Komisyonu Parlamenterler Meclisi Baskani Bene Uanderlinden (2005) 

  -Israil Cumhurbaskani Simon Peres (2007) 

  -Filistin Devlet Baskani Mahmut Abbas (2007) 

  -AB Komisyonu Baskani Jose Manuel Barroso (2008) 

 And i tell you, we dont have time and luxury for gestures, dont you think they should work some?

And then you complain about stupid rules ( according to you) in the cabinet... If they spend time for nonsenses and if you dont stop this wasting of time... nothing will happen...

am i clear enough?

Ah..

I did not realize that you were objecting the issue of Obama speaking in the parliment from ´using the time effectively in the parliment´ point of view..

because in your first post, you said that:

´This was also wrong... No matter what, that is not the place for such issues... Everybody should know, understand and behave according to his state...

If something like that happens, that means that we accept him over our national assembly...´

But of course, they should work harder there.. 

correct, gestures are for balls or for some meetings or whatever... national assembly is a place to work for who voted them...

I think it is more than that ..I am sure it is much related to traditions of foreign diplomacy.

The foreign ministery is the one of the most succesful ministaries in Turkey..As you can see from the list of I have given, They have been keeping a tradition for many many years without worrying about wasting a couple of hours of Turkish parliment. 

And sometimes, with that treatment they may get much more than they will get from the parliment working many months really..

Anyway, that is the tradition and Obama will come and address the Parliment (in English) like Simon Perez did earlier..

I am sure, they would do this in Turkish if they knew the language! Because they have some respect... You saw Peres at DAVOS he has said nothing... he could easily fire up the relationships between two countries...