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Separation paranoia or would education in Kurdish separate Turkey?
(58 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
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20.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 03:58 pm

I stayed in Diyarbakir for three months  in the early 80´s, as a guest of my uncle who had been  working in the City as a doctor  (doctors are required to serve in the East for a certain period of time before they can work elsewhere). My impression of Diyarbakir was a bit mixed. There used to be dwellings on one side of the town that resembled medieval towns where people led traditional lives in complete misery.  There were also nicer streets (one of them being Ofis) where civil servants and wealthier people lived. Since there was not much of economic activity other than craftsmanship and petty trade, civil servants were considered rich.

 

In the streets of Diyarbakir, there was a feeling of tension, a keen awareness of anything non-Kurdish. When you entered a shop where a few people had been talking to one another in their local Kurdish dialect, the conversation would immediately stop and people would turn all their attention to you. If you have a lighter complexion which is a tell-tale sign of your not belonging there, you would notice this more often.



Edited (9/4/2009) by vineyards

21.       libralady
5152 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 04:25 pm

 

Quote:

Quoting thehandsom


Education in one’s native language is a human right. In today’s world the right to learn and teach one’s native language demanded by millions of citizens is an irrefutable legitimate right.

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

 

This pretty much proves that all the western countries are violating human rights. will you criticize these fascistwestern  countries? <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

 

 Not quite sure how we would cope in the UK, teaching in everyones own language, there are over 300 spoken here. 

22.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 04:55 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

Quote:

Quoting thehandsom


Education in one’s native language is a human right. In today’s world the right to learn and teach one’s native language demanded by millions of citizens is an irrefutable legitimate right.

 

 Not quite sure how we would cope in the UK, teaching in everyones own language, there are over 300 spoken here. 

 

 

Exactly, libra, I agree....here in the US we would make ourselves crazy trying to teach in every language.  I personally think if Kurds want to be accepted as part of Turkish society, they should probably start speaking the language of the Turks.  Turkey IS there native land now, handsom.  I don´t understand why there is so much resistance to become part of Turkish society.  They feel very discriminated against, yet they put themselves on the outside of society by not learning the language.....seems like a little give and take is needed on both sides. 

23.       catwoman
8933 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 04:56 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

This is a weird mentality Catwoman. If what you mean by "you" is an all-inclusive statement refering to anything from the government to the people and to all the institutions of a nation then you are talking about a plague - an epidemic for which there is no cure. Again in line with your thinking, the PKK terror is justified. That it claimed the lives of thousands of people, that it hampered progress in the region despite the desire of millions of peaceful Kurds have no weight in your line of thinking. We are all responsible for it and we must now bear the consequences. Good thing, we still have sane people around (unlike muhsin and you in this context) who are working on solutions rather than shoveling coal into the fire.

 

 The only reason why I put the blame on the generic "you" is because I think that unless the issue is accepted and the guilty admit to their mistakes, there is no solution possible. I think that it is the responsibility of the Turkish people to admit to the atrocities commited by their government and their compliance and without that I do not see a real solution. It is very similar to Americans having to accept and admit the atrocities their government commits around the world and their compliance to it.. Isn´t that what you expect from them?

Yes, violence is never a solution, just from this experience we can see that the government´s violence towards Kurds only bred more violence back from the Kurds. And the only solution that the government and the population can come up with now is MORE VIOLENCE! It is absolutely ridiculous.. and clearly not going to get us anywhere.. only will cause more INNOCENT deaths on both sides..

24.       Melek74
1506 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 08:37 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

how about the barbaric kurdish terror against the Turks? You don`t want to see that because the kurds did your dirty jobs in your muslim genocide in Iraq, right? you want to see the pictures of the babies and civilians killed by your beloved kurdish terrorists?

 

The only ´Muslim genocide" in Iraq is that commited by Iraq against Kurds in the al-Anfal campaign. Do you want to see pictures of the babies and civilians killed by your beloved Iraqi Muslims?



Edited (9/4/2009) by Melek74
Edited (9/4/2009) by Melek74

25.       bydand
755 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 09:31 pm

                                                                                                                                                Quote Elisabeth

Exactly, libra, I agree....here in the US we would make ourselves crazy trying to teach in every language.  I personally think if Kurds want to be accepted as part of Turkish society, they should probably start speaking the language of the Turks.  Turkey IS there native land now, handsom.  I don´t understand why there is so much resistance to become part of Turkish society.  They feel very discriminated against, yet they put themselves on the outside of society by not learning the language.....seems like a little give and take is needed on both sides. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Excellent post Elisabeth. I agree with thehandsom there is a Kurdish problem but the heart of the problem seems to be the Kurds themselves. Concessions will have to be made on both sides but many of the Kurdish people don´t seem to be willing to compromise.

 

 



Edited (9/4/2009) by bydand

26.       _AE_
677 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 10:10 pm

 

Quoting bydand

                                                                                                                                                Quote Elisabeth

Exactly, libra, I agree....here in the US we would make ourselves crazy trying to teach in every language.  I personally think if Kurds want to be accepted as part of Turkish society, they should probably start speaking the language of the Turks.  Turkey IS there native land now, handsom.  I don´t understand why there is so much resistance to become part of Turkish society.  They feel very discriminated against, yet they put themselves on the outside of society by not learning the language.....seems like a little give and take is needed on both sides. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Excellent post Elisabeth. I agree with thehandsom there is a Kurdish problem but the heart of the problem seems to be the Kurds themselves. Concessions will have to be made on both sides but many of the Kurdish people don´t seem to be willing compromise.

 

 

 

 I would agree if the Kurds had immigated to Turkey, but, to my knowledge, were they not inhabiting that area BEFORE Turkey became Turkey?

27.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 10:26 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 I would agree if the Kurds had immigated to Turkey, but, to my knowledge, were they not inhabiting that area BEFORE Turkey became Turkey?

 

Anatolia is also known as the cradle of civilizations.  Where are all those people? They are us. We are the heirs of all the civilizations that lived in Anatolia. That´s why they call Anatolia a mozaic. Turk is not the name of a race, it is the name of the people of anatolia. Femmefatal said something about this matter that made sense.

28.       bydand
755 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 10:28 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 I would agree if the Kurds had immigated to Turkey, but, to my knowledge, were they not inhabiting that area BEFORE Turkey became Turkey?

 

 Yes, and they also inhabitated large parts of what is now Iran,Iraq and a small part of Syria. A separate Kurdistan is not likely to happen.

29.       _AE_
677 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 10:28 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

 

 

Anatolia is also known as the cradle of civilizations.  Where are all those people? They are us. We are the heirs of all the civilizations that lived in Anatolia. That´s why they call Anatolia a mozaic. Turk is not the name of a race, it is the name of the people of anatolia. Femmefatal said something about this matter that made sense.

 

 But my point is that Kurds did not suddenly decide to live in "Turkey" - they have always been there, so why do they have to change their language?

30.       bydand
755 posts
 04 Sep 2009 Fri 10:43 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 But my point is that Kurds did not suddenly decide to live in "Turkey" - they have always been there, so why do they have to change their language?

 

 As vineyards said there has been many civilisations living in this area. I don´t know if the Kurds were the first occupants.

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