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Virginity as ´qualification´....
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50. |
13 Feb 2010 Sat 12:41 pm |
When those oppressed girls grow up they give birth to and bring up people who keep opressing their own daughters. Nothing will change. My advice for our compassionate forumers is that they should divert their love and caring to some useful cause. Such as animals in poor condition, who are completely innocent and have no fault in the condition that they are in.
It will never change with this kind of attitude. I care for humans and animals but will not stop caring about those who are also defenceless through no fault of their own. I believe this will become less of a problem in the future through education programmes etc. Also if no one cared for you in a situation you could not control and were facing death; would you not want someone to help you out??
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51. |
13 Feb 2010 Sat 12:47 pm |
Do you know where to find a version of this with English subtitles? Ive watched a bit in Turkish, and I can understand whats going on just by watching, but id like to know whats been said aswell!
And yes I agree, these girls are, most of the time, left to fend for themselves, some lucky ones manage to runaway, but face a life hiding in safe houses! There are some organisations there to help these girls, but I wish more could be done!
I bought the film on the internet. I googled it and eventually found it. It was with english subtitles. Another film you might like is ´O Cocuklari´. You can u tube this. Type it in and then put ´with english subtitles´
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52. |
16 Feb 2010 Tue 11:33 pm |
It will never change with this kind of attitude. I care for humans and animals but will not stop caring about those who are also defenceless through no fault of their own. I believe this will become less of a problem in the future through education programmes etc. Also if no one cared for you in a situation you could not control and were facing death; would you not want someone to help you out??
you need to ask for help. this should be spelled out by those who need the help, or it will be just some foggy wish. people should realize what kind of help they need, and in what, from whom etc.
what can we do now? live different, show this difference for others, if it worth to be followed, when others are ready to live the same - they will, and then quantity turns to quality
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53. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 03:38 am |
This is a very complicated issue for people.
Community culture, law, religious rules, traditions and prejudices lead people.
For example “virginity” is definitely precondition for marriage according to Turkish traditional community culture.
It is definitely precondition in the Islamic culture, strict protestant or orthodox families and other communities.
Edited (2/17/2010) by yilgun-2010
Edited (2/17/2010) by yilgun-2010
Edited (2/17/2010) by yilgun-2010
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54. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 04:04 am |
Turkish culture does not ban marriages of men (virgin or otherwise) with non virgin ladies, so long as the ladies´ lives can qualify as honorable. Meaning of the term "honorable" do change from country to country, and Turks have their own standards, not open to be questioned by deep philosophers like our dear Trudy.
Concealed premarital sexual activities of all kinds are discouraged and especially young ladies presenting themselves as virgins, under false pretenses are frowned upon; yet a man is perfectly free to marry such a lady if he is aware and does not mind. Chastity is deemed to be a virtue for a young man out to get married as well, but can not be enforced as strongly for practical reasons. With or without experience, two healthy bodies and sound minds will know what to do in their first night together.
Similar rules apply in Islam. Let us not forget Prophet Muhammad´s choice in his first marriage was a perfectly honorable and elligible, yet previously married lady.
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55. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 07:26 am |
Of course any fraud perpetuated in a marriage contract invalidates the contract. Paying for that deception with one´s life is too high a price IMHO. Then, one has to consider the fact that some of the ladies lives would be forfeit if lack of virginity were revealed....so it´s a conumdrum.
As for the virginity issue, it´s become a hideious tragedy of misunderstanding. While it is true all maidens do not bleed in the desired, or expected, manner, just what does medical science say is an appropriate amount of blood? The prospect of bleeding, and one´s blood amount being under scrutiny, is enough to put a real damper on any bride´s romantic bliss potential on their wedding night.
Wouldn´t a trip to a doctor for verification be a better alternative? It seems there is a lot they can tell with an examination. Of course, that could open another can of worms also..(bribe potential?)
Some real education on the science of the issue seems very much in order. You know, a what´s what, where and how?
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56. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 11:04 am |
I agree with Alameda, it´s all about being honest. Each person may choose what qualities their partner should have. If virginity is important, there´s nothing wrong with wanting to marry a virgin. Some people want to marry somebody rich, some are looking for intelligence, what´s wrong with wanting to marry a virgin?
However, the issues already discussed - like is it really possible to check whether or not a woman is a virgin - can be a problem. I don´t think there´s a way to solve it otherwise than by trust. If a person trusts their partner, they´ll accept what s/he tells them. Is it possible to lie? Sure but then, you may lie and be lied to about everything, it´s impossible to have everything proven scientifically. That´s the best part and the greatest risk in relationships, you have to accept some things even if you´re not 100% sure they´re true. For example, how can you tell if your partner really loves you? They may act in a good manner, buy you flowers, compliment you but how do you know it´s love, not just respect and politeness? You assume some things and that´s it.
If a woman tells you she´s a virgin, you have no choice but believe her. If you don´t then it´s probably not the best spouse for you
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57. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 01:10 pm |
If a woman tells you she´s a virgin, you have no choice but believe her. If you don´t then it´s probably not the best spouse for you
let´s do some research here among women and men
who want to marry virgin (for whom this characteristic is vitally important) for men
and
who want to stay virgin till marriage(for whom this characteristic adds smth vitally important) for women
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58. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 01:13 pm |
The dictionary meaning of the word virginity when used as an adjective is free of impurity or stain. Since the Latin root it is derived from "virgo" mean young woman, it is not difficult to realize that it initially signified the state of transience into womanhood from maidenhood on marriage. All other connotations must be based on the assumption that a young woman is pure, free from sins etc and she loses this quality when she has has with a man.
Regardless of how lightly people seem to take this matter these days, virginity has become an iron clad norm in people´s minds hence it is used for describing other matters like extra virgin olive oil, virgin voyage etc. Virginity essentially signifies purity which is treasured by most and it arouses a well-known desire to possess it and to stain it. In a way, it can be likened to branding animals.
It is not just some men who value virginity; some women are keen defenders of virginity too. Even today, maidenhood is used by women for creating a sex-appeal. Britney Spears promoted her albums by highlighting her virginity. Christians call Mother Mary as Virgin Mary or the Virgin. She is considered to be a symbol of chastity.
Therefore, if you believe in something, the concept of virginity usually comes complete within that belief system. It seems it would not be consistent to both believe and to denounce the importance given to virginity.
I agree with Alameda, it´s all about being honest. Each person may choose what qualities their partner should have. If virginity is important, there´s nothing wrong with wanting to marry a virgin. Some people want to marry somebody rich, some are looking for intelligence, what´s wrong with wanting to marry a virgin?
However, the issues already discussed - like is it really possible to check whether or not a woman is a virgin - can be a problem. I don´t think there´s a way to solve it otherwise than by trust. If a person trusts their partner, they´ll accept what s/he tells them. Is it possible to lie? Sure but then, you may lie and be lied to about everything, it´s impossible to have everything proven scientifically. That´s the best part and the greatest risk in relationships, you have to accept some things even if you´re not 100% sure they´re true. For example, how can you tell if your partner really loves you? They may act in a good manner, buy you flowers, compliment you but how do you know it´s love, not just respect and politeness? You assume some things and that´s it.
If a woman tells you she´s a virgin, you have no choice but believe her. If you don´t then it´s probably not the best spouse for you
Edited (2/17/2010) by vineyards
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59. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 04:38 pm |
The keywords here are "gradual" and "self induced". I don´t think grabbing all those girls from their families and placing them in special facilities will create a healthier society, which is the only instantenous solution I can think of. In these kinda topics people always miss one point; "Töre" is a cultural, even national identity for those people. They cherish it, they don´t want you to meddle, intervention creates even more grief. They will have to grow out of it, gradually. I know you people are upset and concerned but do not lose your sleep over it, there is not much you can do. It will still be rampant by the end of your lifespan, I´m afraid.
i happen to agrre with this. it takes a lot both of time and victim.
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60. |
17 Feb 2010 Wed 11:29 pm |
Raindrops - I´m sure you´d find more men keen on marrying virgins than women who want to stay virgins till their wedding day. I think it´s got something to do with the penis complex of men and fear of being compared to others. Also, it may be what Vineyards calls "branding."
Vineyards - virginity in the western culture gained commercial sense. If sex sells, then virginity will sell as well, just to a different target group.
I, personally, find it ridiculous to believe that virginity is something that should be offered only after legalised committment. Still, I strongly feel it´s important to choose your first partner right (as well as all others that may follow ).
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