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Women cannot marry men they want
(262 Messages in 27 pages - View all)
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50.       alameda
3499 posts
 06 Oct 2010 Wed 08:44 pm

 Awww don´t get upset. I wasn´t upset about what you said, it was very subtle though...you have a way like that which, I admire. I do the same thing, or try to, and am too often misunderstood.

Quoting vineyards

Cool down buddy. Give me a break. I already have enough problems zigzagging in my "against seat" on the thin ice of the limbo called Turkish Class.

 

 

 

 

 

51.       busyb
117 posts
 06 Oct 2010 Wed 09:06 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

Busyb - yeah, it´s really entertaining to observe women being humiliated, forced to be slaves and deprived of human rights. What an interesting difference!

 

 

 Maybe you should pay more attention to what you read, let me make it clearer for you:

On the actual subject note: I agree the difference between arranged and forced marriages is very thin but we must not forget that that line still exists and thankfully too. Some women agree to arranged marriages - and I know one of them being very excited about the whole thing. To that note I do not disagree with arranged marriages if the participants agree to it, but if they do not, no-one should have the right to force someone to do something they do not wish to do when it will dramatically change their lives.

 

I´m not saying I wish ALL the differences stuck around but like I said before these differences make our world very interesting and make learning about other cultures etc interesting too. For example, seeing everyone and yourself get splattered in different colors of powder is an experience I know that I would love because it is so different from my own (or tomato throwing in Spain! )- though I wouldn´t go as far as eating a cockroach in China {#emotions_dlg.puking}

 

52.       alameda
3499 posts
 06 Oct 2010 Wed 09:23 pm

 see again you are doing it....here is a quote of what I wrote:

"I challenge both you and Daydreamer to show your proof...or shut the **** up! "

.......you don´t seem to understand....saying what you think I said is not proof.

You come here with your chauvinistic "Western" wiser than thou, more civilized than thou attitude putting down traditions you don´t understand or want to understand, (although nobody is subjecting you to those traditions) like as if your culture is superior.....

I have stated many many times that arranged marriage is NOT forced marriage....but you don´t seem to be capable of understanding that???? I don´t understand it.......how can you think they are the same thing. I never said anyone should be forced to marry, but rather that there are advantages to having help.

Regarding the maturity of boys and girls...it´s a simple fact girls mature faster...go study some science...they are sexually mature younger than boys. You do understand what that means....? It´s a fact....and it´s a fact that they often do have sex...sanctioned or not...it seems quite wide spread in Western countries. I guess you would have to take a survey to see how hideous those girls felt it was. I doesn´t appear they were all raped, which is criminal as well as hideous.

You have thrown everything but the kitchen sink in here....I really don´t have time or energy to discuss them all at this time. However I will not sit by and let you slander me by saying I have said things I have not said. It is rather your misunderstanding of what I have said.

As for my anger....it´s not anger....it´s frustration {#emotions_dlg.head_bang}....you know abut that?

 

Quoting Daydreamer

..........Alameda - do go back on your post, you can do it, can´t you? Then you´ll find your words promoting what I call backwardness. No reason to be rude and tell people who are right to, as you put it, "shut the ***** up" - just remember all our discussiona about burkas, women´s obedience to men in Islam, arranged marriages being better than "romantic" ones, logic between men having the right to have more than one wife, but not vice versa - all of these ideas, girls growing up faster in other parts of the world, which makes it not hideous for men to have sex with them, so widely discussed by us on this site are backwards to me. Backwards in my understanding of the world - there are derogatory to women. Unless you changed your mind and agree with me, this is the opinion I´ll continue to have. If, to you these ideas do not seem backwards, but modern or right - it´s your opinion and you´re entitled to think so, just like I´m entitled to think my way. I don´t understand your anger, it´s you who stated these things over the years, not me. The archive proves it.

 

 



Edited (10/6/2010) by alameda [sp]

53.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 06 Oct 2010 Wed 09:37 pm

 

Quoting alameda

It is interesting to see your interpretation of my words....you did not get it at all.  Your understanding of my words leaves me speechless....but let me make an attempt to clarify....{#emotions_dlg.head_bang}

NUMBER 1 I never ever have advocated for any type of forced marriage. 

NUMBER 2 I never ever have advocated for any type of forced marriage.

NUMBER 3 I never ever have advocated for any type of forced marriage.

NUMBER 4 I never ever have advocated for any type of forced marriage. 

NUMBER 5 I never ever have advocated for any type of forced marriage.

Now....is that clear??????  

 

Regarding arranged marriage.....given all the dating sites, it is obvious people feel they need some outside help. Today they use technology, yesterday they used their family members. The outcome is the same thing.

....Maybe you did not need any help...maybe your met your spouse came from a thunderbolt....however many people do need help.....they want to know something about the person they are going to get involved with. It depends on what one is looking for, if you want to find a spouse you want to have an idea of who the person is, what is their background?  If you have a family that you love and want to keep in your life, compatability should not be just the couple, but the family also should be considered, and I stand by that. Trying to be a couple on an island isn´t easy, people need help.....and one´s family is often a good place to get that assistance from.

How many women have had their bad boy experience....? ...and there are the men who have their sexpot...who is not really a good marriage choice. Too many have married for hormones, only to realize later it wasn´t a great decision. As with any important decision, a second opinion is not a bad idea.

The current method of finding a mate in "Western" cultures is to try things out, sort of on a hit or miss basis.....maybe marriage enters the picture, many times not. I know many women who have children, but aren´t ready to get married.  Some are even going to sperm banks to be inseminated, they don´t want to bother with having a husband. I can´t say I find that situation desirable. Yes, I am old fashioned in as much as I do think children do best in famlies that have parents.

As for love, I´m all for love...but there are different kinds of love. The love that is based on lust does not often last. Marriage based on compatibility and commitment to being married does.

 I´m sorry to have to tell you, your memory is very flawed, and you have no place to stand when it comes to talking about freedom and independence...you who are perfectly happy letting a 12 year old girl go through a body scanner which in effect does a strip search and is recorded.....and in addition to that you have taken what you misunderstood and extrapolated on it into a direction that I most definitely had no intention of going.

Now I wonder how you will twist my words this time?

 

 

 

It´s interesting to see that you don´t read my post but still reply to them. A few posts above yours I put the following sentence:

Number 1 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 2 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 3 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 4 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 5 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Hey! That´s fun - I mean, a tad childish but fun

I´ll capitalise it, although I am not shouting. I´m just out of ideas how to put it across to be understood:

IF YOU WERE BROUGHT UP IN A SOCIETY THAT BELIEVES ARRANGED MARRIAGES ARE A NORM, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A FREE CHOICE - EVEN IF YOUR FAMILY DOESN´T FORCE TO MARRY BY PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD, YOU FEEL SOCIAL OBLIGATION TO FOLLOW WHAT YOUR FAMILY CHOOSES FOR YOU. ALSO, YOU KNOW IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

offf - I hope that was clear!

So, basically I got this right the first time and you suddenly got all shouty and rude. I don´t get it!

Correct me if I´m wrong, but you do claim that families know better and arrangement works better than a decision based on hormones, right? - since in the evil west it´s hit or miss, then, obviously, in the fair east it works better. Or am I missing something here?

I never claimed to be an expert on independence or freedom. What i believe in is choice - you don´t want a scan, you don´t fly. You don´t want to marry - your family does not think you´re a rebel, and you´re able to live your life alone, support yourself, get a partner or a test-tube baby. Just because you are the one that makes choices.

 

How did I twist your words this time?

 

Busyb - ok, so playing with colourful dust is ok, but forcing people to marry isn´t? i can go with that

54.       alameda
3499 posts
 06 Oct 2010 Wed 10:21 pm

 Dear Daydreamer,

I have a life I have to attend to now, but I still contend that arranged and forced are not the same.....and I don´t have an idea how many times I have to repeat I am against any forced marriage for you to actually understand that. What can I do, I say white, you see black?

I did not say hormones should not enter into a marriage decision. If someone is not attractive to you, there is no hope for a good marriage, however it is not the only criteria.

Please note, you had to put the qualifier IF into your definition....which changes things....in that case it is not arranged...it is forced.  If one can decline the arrangement, it is not forced. IOW an arrangement can either be accepted or declined.

 

I suggest you read the actual definition of arranged marriage... I accept the Wikipedia definition of issue, instead of yours.

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

It´s interesting to see that you don´t read my post but still reply to them. A few posts above yours I put the following sentence:

Number 1 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 2 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 3 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 4 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Number 5 You may argue that forced and arranged are different, but they´re not

Hey! That´s fun - I mean, a tad childish but fun

I´ll capitalise it, although I am not shouting. I´m just out of ideas how to put it across to be understood:

IF YOU WERE BROUGHT UP IN A SOCIETY THAT BELIEVES ARRANGED MARRIAGES ARE A NORM, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A FREE CHOICE - EVEN IF YOUR FAMILY DOESN´T FORCE TO MARRY BY PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD, YOU FEEL SOCIAL OBLIGATION TO FOLLOW WHAT YOUR FAMILY CHOOSES FOR YOU. ALSO, YOU KNOW IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

offf - I hope that was clear!

So, basically I got this right the first time and you suddenly got all shouty and rude. I don´t get it!

55.       oeince
582 posts
 07 Oct 2010 Thu 12:08 am

I think I complately misunderstood vineyard´s words.

I am sorry vineyards

56.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 07 Oct 2010 Thu 12:30 am

 

Quoting Elisabeth

Doriss, I can appreciate your thougths on this but in many parts of the world where this is taking place, many young girls do not get even a basic education.  Sex is very much a taboo in these societies and viewed as a means of procreation not as something pleasurable (at least not for a woman). 

Dont overestimate yourselves girls !

Turkish ladies knew all about it, very long before Mayflower )))))))))){#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

57.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 07 Oct 2010 Thu 12:32 am

 

Quoting oeince

I think I complately misunderstood vineyard´s words.

I am sorry vineyards

 

You are sorry you could not see the so called innuandoes in his post?

Or sorry that you did not see the rudeness in those words..

Or sorry that you did not see the rudeness was not towards you or alamada but to ´another´ person?

{#emotions_dlg.applause}

58.       oeince
582 posts
 07 Oct 2010 Thu 12:38 am

The third one is the most closer.

I thought, he was defending your words in the first time and tells me not to mass with people. But I understood that was wrong when i read it the second time.

He ment, Whatever thehandsom says is not unexpected, because he used to mass with people. And I am for that idea as well.

Thats why iI am sorry vineyards.



Edited (10/7/2010) by oeince

59.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 07 Oct 2010 Thu 12:49 am

 

Quoting oeince

The third one is the most closer.

I thought, he was defending your words in the first time and tells me not to mass with people. But I understood that was wrong when i read it the second time.

He ment, Whatever thehandsom says is not unexpected, because he used to deal with people. And I am for that idea as well.

Thats why iI am sorry vineyards.

 

Well done..lol

The rudeness was so obvious in the first place.. Considering that I did not even say anything to him or arguing with him and him coming out of blue  with an unstoppable rage and the desire for being rude can be considered as provocation..

But thanks to know that I am not the only person saying vineyards´s post was rude..

Rudeness is rudeness and it does not matter if you are a mod or not..

 

60.       oeince
582 posts
 07 Oct 2010 Thu 12:53 am

I said closer in order i wasn´t for the " rude" part of your 3rd statement.

I  that rather consider that as deserve of a slanderer .

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