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I lost my belief in Dutch society
(57 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
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50.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 09:07 am

AlphaF...

you have started to know me

its all about right feelings at the right time...
what a wise words arent they "right feelings at the right time"

51.       Chantal
587 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 09:28 am

I'm soo glad that not everyone in Holland has lost his mind (yet).
I went to a comedy night yesterday, and they were really making fun of this news article. Silly people here..
Sometimes it's very nice to 'oh, but I can do that because I live in Amsterdam', but I don't approve at all of these kind of things.

Silly 'we'

52.       sophie
2712 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 11:27 am

Well… I may not be living in Holland and Greece is far behind those “pioneering” ideas, but I do have a daughter and this subject concerns me deeply.

I read all the previous posts and I think that everybody is right, in parts. Freedom of speech is important. Everyone should be free to express his beliefs and ideas, no matter if they are acceptable or not. But in this case, mltm was right, when she was saying “I'm not talking about banning his freespeech and punishing him, I'm talking about not rewarding this person by letting him establish a party. He can go on talking for the rest of his life, but shouldn't organise legally.” Letting these people establish a political party, is not just freedom of speech. It is inconsiderate tolerance!

Sui, on the other hand, has a point. If we raise our children with the right ethics and principles, they will fall in such traps less easily. But they won’t avoid the danger completely. For example, I was raised in a very ethical family, with high morals and strong principles. For my parents, me having a boyfriend at the age of 15, was something unacceptable. But all my friends at school were already romantically involved, and it looked to me so normal then. So I followed my friends’ steps and not my parents’ route. Smoking was strictly forbidden, but everyone was smoking then, so I also followed their example. Of course they were also taking drugs or drinking alcohol, things that I refused to do. And that was cause of the sense that my parents had implanted in me, to judge what could harm me little, much or terribly much.

What I m trying to say, is that no matter what you teach to your child, s/he will always be effected from what his/her friends do. And we have all been teenagers and know that danger can be very appealing. And whatever is forbidden, has to be tasted, even once. It’s a matter of curiosity and rebelliousness, which go together with puberty.

If there is such a subject being discussed, like the freedom of kids to have sex at their 12, or the legal ability to take part in childporn, this whole discussion will bring up new consciences. We ll learn to accept things like that, easier. Once, we could not accept the idea of a couple having sex before marriage. Now we protest against it. Once, a woman who was not happy in her marriage, could never even think of getting divorced. Now, it is unacceptable even as a thought, to keep suffering in a bad marriage and not apply for a divorce. As you see, things and morals are changing with a dizzy speed. So what today is considered unethical tomorrow will be a necessary fact.

In the bottom line, I think that what is needed most, is balance. Complete freedom of speech can be as bad, as complete despotism. And where kids are concerned, a complete strictness would push them to “anarchy” and a complete freedom would loosen their conscience…

53.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 11:57 am

Suigeneris,

I am glad you liked what I said. I was afraid you would feel insulted. Good luck my friend - whatever you say !

54.       Joey
0 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 12:13 pm

Very well put sophie, I think you got the balance just about right.

55.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 01:59 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

The idea of FREE SPEECH involves intelligence, wisdom and good will.

When people admit to being "dumb" or are generally accepted as such, they can say whatever they want. You can not impose sanctions on the dumb anyway. Did "Metallica" ever understand this?

If one or more of the other 2 fundamental qualities are absent, you are bound to hear tons of gabage, under freedom of speech pretext.

All this however, should not be taken to mean that only AlphaF is allowed to speak.



Ya kimsenin ironiden haberi yok mu?!... :-S
Isn't there anyone who knows a little irony :-S

Then forget about my f*cking free speech.

56.       Aenigma
0 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 03:17 pm

57.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 01 Jun 2006 Thu 03:21 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Suigeneris,

I am glad you liked what I said. I was afraid you would feel insulted. Good luck my friend - whatever you say !



your welcome my friend...
life is too short to be offended to anything
thank you for your wishes i really need it...

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