I just can't believe what the newspapers are telling me now. When my sister came home and stunned told me about the new Politic Party that will be funded in Holland in 2 days, I thougth she was making a lame joke (puberty, you know ).

But when i opened my mailbox where i had my newspaper digital delivered, i just felt like posting it here so that nobody will ever question again why i wanna trade Holland for Türkiye (ok apart from the sun, the lovely people, language and my handsome man ofcourse).

I will translate the Dutch newspaper text below:

Pedophiles start politic party

RIJSWIJK ANP - The Netherlands are getting a new party, which is coming from a pedophile-organisation. The new partij, Charity, Freedom and Diversity (NVD in Dutch), is striving for the legalisation of child-porn and sex between adults and children. The party will be funded officially on wednesday.

De 62-year old Ad van den Berg (his age should say enough if you ask me!!!! translaters comment ), one of the founders of the NVD, expects to sign the party in at the Kiesraad. The founders getting hundreds of 'worried e-mails and phonecalls', says Van den Berg. "We need to explain lots" (DOHH).

He is surprised about the commotion about the funding (EXCUSE ME) "Ten years ago we were 'on speaking terms' with the society. But ever since Dutroux, nothing can be discussed anymore. All paedophiles are labelled the same (dont they all love and dream about the same :-S). We are being silenced to death" so says Van den Berg. The only acceptable way of being heard, is via politics, according to him.

Existence of party is allowed

Almost one/fifth of the Dutch population (Well i just voted online against) is of the opinion this party should be allowed to exist. Yet the majority of the Dutch (82 procent), would love to see there would be taken (firm) action, by the government for example.

The management/directors of teh NVD are said to consist of members who have close relations with martijn, the interest group for paedophiles. Other subjects in the programme of the party are amongst others: abolition of the (Dutch version of) house of commons and house of lords, the chosen prime minister, legalisation of soft AND harddrugs AND walking naked, and life-long prison sentence by commiting a second murder.

Pornfilms

The party says on their own website, that they like to see that everybody older than 16 is allowed to play in pornfilms. Youth should be allowed to have sexual contacts of an age of 12 (which is 16 now). But then on willing basis (Ehrm doesn't that ocunt for any age?!) "because we are against abuse, just like any other human". The party wants to organise a hallmark/quality mark for child-porn, in which an independent organisation (ofcourse :-S) will check if the chilrden are being forced to act in those films.

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Ohh please people, tell me i misunderstood this message. Please tell me there isn't a 62 year old pervert in Holland saying he likes to see 16 year old kids performing sex with elder people, please tell me he doesn't say that children of 12 can have sex. Doesn't the word child mean that period we are in when we are young, unaware of the pain in the world, with an infitinite imagination for beauty? Or will Holland turn into a country where old sex-slaves can raise parties and enjoy sex with their grandchildren



Usually if i end my post with a cry, it's a bit exagarated or either silly. But this really brings tears to me. My sister is fucking twelve!!! And the word fucking is very unlucky here ! Damn it!


(im sorry for the crappy translation, i did it in a hurry. But its better for you guys than a dutch version anyway )

wow! what a wise and FREE country
you must be very lucky Deli Kızın hahahah
i am sure Micheal Jackson will be willing to be a citizen of Holland

Hello dear Deli_kizin,
I am shocked. Is this means that the end of the world came already.I hate this. How about our kids? Can't continue, maybe later...

If this is true - it is just so sick and unbelievable

horrid,gruesome,consummate perversion..

children will be pushed in sex even without knowledge of the real meaning of the word ''sex''

really it s soooo sad where is going this world!But i am not surprised at all!If it s normal marriage between same sex why you are surprised with this!

Sooo sad and speechless... I really like Holland it is a beautiful country..it is not just "Amsterdam"..and glad we don't live there..

Regarding this subject in a very broad sense, I advised Deli_kızın (in private) to look up,
Jacob Frank
Frankists
on the net; trying to understand who they are and what they are after.

Later, I thought any interested classmate should be invited to the same quest.

It sounds pretty horrible and immoral with our existing moral values, but as countries become freer, the limits are being broadened, and the moral values become more flexible. We don't know in the next century, what kind of moral values are waiting for us.
The idea of freedom is this if you don't hurt anyone and you don't force them, you should have the right to do whatever you want. It sounds logical but the children are always children. We should always protect them, I am sure the majority of the Dutch society think like this as well. You said 82% are against it, and this ratio is quite high. I don't know what it means when this party becomes legal. What kind of actions do they plan to do?

And what's freewill? It's such a relative thing. Can you talk about the freewill of a child having sex with her father? I know it's very sick but freewill is such a thing.
By making it legal, government will contradict with itself because our first reason to go to school is to get a profession and therefore earn our lives but while the government gives education at schools, it says you can do porn as well. And wouldn't this confuse the children? Knowing that they all have the needed qualities for earning their lives by sex, by a much easier and funny thing!

Apart from this, childporn and slavery of women are so so wide all over the world, and mostly in the most undevelopped countries. Can we stop it with anything while there's poverty?
We heard that the aid teams do sex with young girls and woman in Africa, and why do these girls do sex? For food, just for food. This is also freewill, isn't it? And they're the men that have come to help them. We know that so many women from old soviet countries come to other countries to earn something but end up becoming a whore or a sex slave.
I know this is not the case in Holland, but while all these are going on the world to establish a party who defends childporn is so so sad. While most of the reason of it is poverty making it also a moral thing is so sad.Yes, there're people of a lot of different ideas and beliefs and some of them are very sick, but a government's first duty should be to make healty adults and therefore to protect children.

aenigma, u r so right! whatever u've said is right!
we all r free to say what we want to say, however crime will stay crime. it is so much important to talk about it! we should discuss over such problems in our countries. someone previously has alredy told in 'the old good times' it existed and done in silence in families, we should stop it!
such party isnt a danger itself, coz normal parents wouldnt let their children get harmed thus they wouldnt let the law changed for the support of those parties.

mltm, terrorists r also free to tell their ideas, they actually exist(in most islamic countries) and do their job perfectly, though we dont want them.

most religious ppl hate holland (i know many ppl who curse holland), but i support this country, i dont want holland lose its freedom due to such evil ppl parties. i hope the party will fail reaching its goals.

its pointless to live at all without having freedom. HOLLAND, I SUPPORT U, PLS, DONT LET EVIL OVERCOME UR FREEDOM!

Well I have one of those days that i feel kinda numb and like i can't say anything that makes sense

I can identify both with Aenigma's and Meltems opinions.
But what i was trying to say is, freedom of speech is becoming so fake here. It is stopping the discussion in Holland, closing down the subjects that could be worth to be discussed. Like paedophilia. It will become the subject of the newspapers and political debates, but no sollution will be found. It's for sure that their ideas won't come through and won't be made as a law. A political party needs support and back-up. Im convinced there are not enough paedophiles (what a nice word actually for the disgusting meaning) to support and to make them get many votes. But what does scare me, that there are people like this in my country and that they can just make a political party, spreading their ideas, and not being ashamed of it!

I do like Holland for its freedom of speech. We can critize our country without someone getting angry with us. And when I vote, I'm sure it will be an honest vote and not a corrupt government. I'm happy that i could buy soft-drugs without getting arrested. Not because I intend to use it or ever did, but because it's good to see that it protects the prostitutes from robberies and has reduced the drug-crime.
I'm not against one-night-stands or loosing virginity to a stranger. It's just not something I would ever wish to be part of, but I'm not against it.
My insurrance company works well and when I'm ill i'm sure i can get good help in the hospital. I know that law and court will protect me if someone tries to harm me. Education is good here and the chance of finding a well-paid job would be high if i was to stay here.

Freedom of speech and a free country don't necessarily mean that morals become more loose. But by becoming free and enlaring the limits, there will become new limits and people will want to explore them, see if they can enlarge them. In a good, healthy society those limits will be approached, but set back if they see their country gets out of balance.
But the news lately tells me that, more and more people explore the limits and more and more go over them. They shock others, and they polarize the country.

Good people will have good morals, no matter where they live. I love Holland for its former good morals and values, I love it for its tiny and tidy houses and its simple people. I love it for the green forests and the bicycles. But i start to hate it for growing weak against its own people. It does not stand up and say: these are our universal morals of dignity and respect. It waits till a ridiculous politic party is set up. It waits till the airport gets on fire in the area of the refugees. And then even has the guts to send those traumatised people abck on the plane to where they came from. It nees a murder like Theo van Gogh to wake up.

The wine of freedom of speech has made Holland drunk. Dutch society needs to sober up.

Freedom of speech is not an uncontrolled liberty to utter anything that comes to your mind; it is the freedom to chose what you will want to say, making intelligent choices among various different possibilities.

When not backed by intelligence, wisdom and good will "freedom of speech" may easily became a cock-up.

Aenigma,

That is a grave over simplification of an otherwise very fundamental and serious issue.

Idiots on the other side will then remember their own "freedom to shoot" those they consider bad talkers....

We do have doctors to remove what we think are cancer cells, no?

Hitler was an idiot...he removed 5 000 000 Jews..

Total death toll in WW2 is 65 000 000..do you ever remember the other 60 000 000? not as often, eh?....Why not?

Come on people! What are we talking about? It's not about just moral values, it's not one night stands or virginity subject, it's not about porn, it's not even about animal porn!, it's about CHILDPORN! Do you know what this means, can you speak about a freewill of a child about porn? This is not a subject about morals, this is about the damage it will cause in those young people, noone has any right to play with the psychological health of the children in the name of freedom. It won't be maybe your child, but does it make you less responsible for other children? Being civilized isn't a competition of being more free.

Sorry, but this is not toleration, and this is too much for me, and I have no more word.

Yes, I know. We're talking about the freespeech of someone in a party who supports childporn claiming that it's up to their freewill. I talked about freewill to tell why he souldnt be let.
I'm not talking about banning his freespeech and punishing him, I'm talking about not rewarding this person by letting him establish a party. He can go on talking for the rest of his life, but shouldn't organise legally.

"THE FREEDOM OF FREE SPEECH" should stop where some idiot starts talking to my 11 year old sister about the beauty of making sex at her young and tender age"

Lets hear those in disagreement !

My example may be a bit extreme, but should effectively demonstrate that there are limits, even to freedom of speech...

Suigeneris,

Even PKK would not stoop this far down...what you say is total crap !

I honestly think you dont know what you are talking about, unless you are trying to play the comedian. Even then, it is a tasteless show !

The idea of FREE SPEECH involves intelligence, wisdom and good will.

When people admit to being "dumb" or are generally accepted as such, they can say whatever they want. You can not impose sanctions on the dumb anyway. Did "Metallica" ever understand this?

If one or more of the other 2 fundamental qualities are absent, you are bound to hear tons of gabage, under freedom of speech pretext.

All this however, should not be taken to mean that only AlphaF is allowed to speak.

Suigeneris,

You obviously have the excuse to say what ever you want !

AlphaF...

you have started to know me

its all about right feelings at the right time...
what a wise words arent they "right feelings at the right time"

I'm soo glad that not everyone in Holland has lost his mind (yet).
I went to a comedy night yesterday, and they were really making fun of this news article. Silly people here..
Sometimes it's very nice to 'oh, but I can do that because I live in Amsterdam', but I don't approve at all of these kind of things.

Silly 'we'

Well… I may not be living in Holland and Greece is far behind those “pioneering” ideas, but I do have a daughter and this subject concerns me deeply.

I read all the previous posts and I think that everybody is right, in parts. Freedom of speech is important. Everyone should be free to express his beliefs and ideas, no matter if they are acceptable or not. But in this case, mltm was right, when she was saying “I'm not talking about banning his freespeech and punishing him, I'm talking about not rewarding this person by letting him establish a party. He can go on talking for the rest of his life, but shouldn't organise legally.” Letting these people establish a political party, is not just freedom of speech. It is inconsiderate tolerance!

Sui, on the other hand, has a point. If we raise our children with the right ethics and principles, they will fall in such traps less easily. But they won’t avoid the danger completely. For example, I was raised in a very ethical family, with high morals and strong principles. For my parents, me having a boyfriend at the age of 15, was something unacceptable. But all my friends at school were already romantically involved, and it looked to me so normal then. So I followed my friends’ steps and not my parents’ route. Smoking was strictly forbidden, but everyone was smoking then, so I also followed their example. Of course they were also taking drugs or drinking alcohol, things that I refused to do. And that was cause of the sense that my parents had implanted in me, to judge what could harm me little, much or terribly much.

What I m trying to say, is that no matter what you teach to your child, s/he will always be effected from what his/her friends do. And we have all been teenagers and know that danger can be very appealing. And whatever is forbidden, has to be tasted, even once. It’s a matter of curiosity and rebelliousness, which go together with puberty.

If there is such a subject being discussed, like the freedom of kids to have sex at their 12, or the legal ability to take part in childporn, this whole discussion will bring up new consciences. We ll learn to accept things like that, easier. Once, we could not accept the idea of a couple having sex before marriage. Now we protest against it. Once, a woman who was not happy in her marriage, could never even think of getting divorced. Now, it is unacceptable even as a thought, to keep suffering in a bad marriage and not apply for a divorce. As you see, things and morals are changing with a dizzy speed. So what today is considered unethical tomorrow will be a necessary fact.

In the bottom line, I think that what is needed most, is balance. Complete freedom of speech can be as bad, as complete despotism. And where kids are concerned, a complete strictness would push them to “anarchy” and a complete freedom would loosen their conscience…

Suigeneris,

I am glad you liked what I said. I was afraid you would feel insulted. Good luck my friend - whatever you say !

Very well put sophie, I think you got the balance just about right.