Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkey

Turkey

Add reply to this discussion
Moderators: libralady, sonunda
Thousands pray for Istanbul landmark to become mosque
(76 Messages in 8 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8
40.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 05:46 am

I was raised as a Kemalist too. I lived some part of my life as an atheist. But sufi thoughts effected me a lot and I became a muslim. I had prejudgements about conservative people. This year I started to do my doctorate in a theology faculty. I observe my teachers. They are conservative but they are  good people. They understand humor. They are helpful. Some of them really read a lot and know many things. They are modern. They use technology effectively. My prejudgements blinded me and I couldn´t see how they really were. If there is something to be afraid of, it is not İslam or muslims, it is ignorance and ignorant people. I believe many fanatics are ignorant people and ignorant people can really use violance to make happen what they want. There are ignorant Muslims but there are also ignorant atheists. There are some atheists who would be happy to see all Muslims dead and there are Muslims who wants the same thing for atheists. And not all Muslims have same thoughts about everything. There are many different ideas and interpretions.

 

We should try to understand eachother. I respect Atatürk but I try to understand what Saidi Nursi wants to tell. I try to be obejective as much as I can. And I know this very well, knowledge is power.

 

 



Edited (6/3/2012) by gokuyum

Henry, catwoman, Elisabeth and Abla liked this message
41.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 06:19 am

I will be glad if muslim praying is allowed in hagia sophia again. in other words, mosque again.

All you need to do is to add a carpet and cover pictures maybe with a curtain at the prayer time which is less than two hours in a day.

It can be still visited by tourists as sultan ahmet (blue mosque), no need to call it a museum but may be used as a museum too. Actually it is not a proper museum, nothing is displayed there but the building itself is displayed. This is same for all historic buildings, mosques, churches... Being a mosque cannot stop being visited as a historic building like selimiye mosque.

Why mosque but not church. Because most of the Turks are muslim and wants to see it as a mosque. If we were for example in Spain, i would say it might be a cathedral. See Cathedral–Mosque of Córdoba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral%E2%80%93Mosque_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

 

42.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 06:26 am

 

Quoting ikicihan

I will be glad if muslim praying is allowed in hagia sophia again. in other words, mosque again.

All you need to do is to add a carpet and cover pictures maybe with a curtain at the prayer time which is less than two hours in a day.

It can be still visited by tourists as sultan ahmet (blue mosque), no need to call it a museum but may be used as a museum too. Actually it is not a proper museum, nothing is displayed there but the building itself is displayed. This is same for all historic buildings, mosques, churches... Being a mosque cannot stop being visited as a historic building like selimiye mosque.

Why mosque but not church. Because most of the Turks are muslim and wants to see it as a mosque. If we were for example in Spain, i would say it might be a cathedral. See Cathedral–Mosque of Córdoba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral%E2%80%93Mosque_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

 

Two wrongs don´t make a right.

 

43.       stumpy
638 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 06:58 am

All this commotion about a place to pray, Ayasofiya started off as a Basilica then a Mosque and now a museum, can we give the pour girl a rest and let her be a museum? When Mohamad started preaching did he preach in a mosque?  When Jesus preached did he preach in a church?  I don´t think so, they preached in the open air, in fields and private homes.  It is us, common worshipers who decided to build building to glorify our gods in them and some of those building are decorated in such opulance and richeness that it overshadows our religion and is more a simbole of our socilal standing, our faith, which ever it is, is in our hearths and souls and it should not matter where we pray.  Is it really that important where we pray?  It is just a building made of mortar and stone.

slavica liked this message
44.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 07:46 am

Mehmed the Conquerer changed St. Sophia into a mosque and willed "Whoever abolishes this, may he be cursed by Allah the Almighty."

in turkish:

Ayasofya Camii vakıf senedinde vakıf sahibi Fatih Sultan Mehmet şöyle demektedir:


Kim ki, bozuk teviller, hurafe ve dedikodudan öteye geçmeyen batıl gerekçelerle, bu vakfın şartlarından birini değiştirirse veya kanun ve kurallarından birini tağyir ederse; vakfın tebdili ve ip­tali için gayret gösterirse; vakfın ortadan kalkmasına veya maksa­dından ve gayesinden başka bir gayeye çevrilmesine kast ederse, vakfın temel hayır müesseselerinden birinin yerine başka bir ku­rum ikame eylemek (temel müesseselerden birinden taviz ver­mek) ve vakfı bölümlerinden birine itiraz etmek dilerse veya bu manada yapılacak değişiklik veya itirazlara yardımcı olur yahut yol gösterirse veya şer´i şerife aykırı olarak vakıfta tasarruf etmeye azm eylerse, mesela şeri´ata ve vakfiyeye aykırı ferman, be­rat, tomar veya talik yazarsa veyahut tevliyet hakkı resmi yahut takrir hakkı resmi ve benzeri bir şey taleb ederse, kısaca batıl ta­sarruflardan birini işler yahut bu tür tasarrufları tamamen geçer­siz olan yazılı kayıtlara ve defterlere kaydeder ve bu tür haksız işlemlerini yalanlar yumağı olan hesaplarına ilhak ederse, [167] açıkça büyük bir haram işlemiş olur, günahı gerektiren bir fiili ir­tikab eylemiş olur. Allah´ın, meleklerin ve bütün insanların la´neti üzerlerine olsun. "Ebeddiyyen Cehennemde kalsınlar, onların azapları asla hafifletilmesin ve onlara ebeddiyyen merhamet olunmasın. Kim bunları duyup gördükten soma değiştirirse ve­bali ye günahı bunu değiştirenlerin üzerine olsun. Hiç şüphe yok ki, Allah her şeyi işitir ve her şeyi bilir."

http://www.ayasofya.org/tarihi-belge-ve-dokumanlar/182-tapu-kadastro-genel-mudurlugunde-bulunan-ayasofya-ile-ilgili-arapca-vakfiyenin-tercumesi.html



Edited (6/3/2012) by ikicihan

45.       stumpy
638 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 08:11 am

Quote: ikicihan

Mehmed the Conquerer changed St. Sophia into a mosque and willed "Whoever abolishes this, may he be cursed by Allah the Almighty."

Hum!  Funny that whoever changes the vocation of the Ayasofia will be cursed by Allah himself just by the sheer power of the will of 1 man.  The same could be said about Mehmet the Conquerer, that he burn in hell for turning Ayasofia from a Basilica to a Mosque.  It could be considered a desicration of a holy place.

The best for the Ayasofiya is to keep it as a museum to preserve the dualety of it, it is both christian and muslim and no one can take that away from it.  The Ayasofia has survived for centuries and served her perpose well for whatever vocation it was used for in the past, like I said before she deserves a rest and to be admired.

As an absurde comparison, should we resume gladiatorial fights at the colosium in Rome or keep it as a tourist attraction?  That is what it´s original porpouse was, fights to the death, impalings, burning at the stakes and crussifictions for the amusements of the general public!

 

slavica liked this message
46.       Henry
2604 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 08:54 am

Some interesting facts about the Hagia Sophia (Ayasofya)

In 2011 it had 3.1 million visitors and generated 48.5 million Turkish liras in revenue.

This was the second most visited site in Turkey last year.

Source here 

47.       Abla
3648 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 10:30 am

What I wanted to say is in gokuyum´s post. Believers are not a homogenous group of people and ignorance is our biggest threat.

 

This thread has become an interesting one. So many posts that make you think.

 

Btw, in my opinion there is nothing wrong in using strong language sometimes as long as it is not used for insulting someone personally. I like to use big words myself sometimes and I expect people to understand I don´t mean them literally.

 

 

48.       vineyards
1954 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 01:30 pm

As a collective reply those with a Kemalist background. I know we are all Kemalists essentially. Our president, our prime minister have all become Kemalists. This love has turned into a Comic Opera.

Long live the Kemalists, why should they be against you. If it opens a door or two into where they are already trying to enter, they are all Kemalists or to set the record straight they are his keen admirers. They simply like him, it is the name of the game these days. Why should they let the opposition have such a mighty toy? Kemal changed Turkey into a modern democracy, now if they start to change the definition Kemalism a bit, in time, they could do some reverse engineering and put it back where they like it to be.

There is a chess player facing you and he is about to capture your Kemal. Keep on reading their charms that will eventually awaken the monster of bigotry. You will regret one day.

49.       Abla
3648 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 01:46 pm

As an outsider it seems to me that kemalism is a strong plus word for Turks. A similar plus word like freedom, democracy or independence are everywhere. No one in his right mind ever questions a plus word. It would be a political suicide. Instead, we use the same word but give it new meanings.

 

Why don’t you join the EU? The Union will protect your freedom of word and democracy against all sorts of extremists.



Edited (6/3/2012) by Abla

50.       vineyards
1954 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 03:51 pm

Why aren´t we joining the EU? That is some question really. Are you asking this seriously?

Abla with all due respect, you can´t sell democracy and freedom like selling a Mercedes. It is like asking a poor guy: "Why don´t you buy a Merc pal, it has everything you need."

Well, I can´t because your guys attacked me from all corners. They did this by offering freedom to the Balkans and Arabs at a time when they were busy doing dirty work of slave trade and colonism in their own back yards. After having lost an entire young generation (remember Dardanelles, Tripoli, Yemen, the Balkan Wars, Russian front), we have no money to afford a Mercedes.

The net result was the creation of medieval style, oil rich nations that perpetually fight with one another. They are still coming up with new forms of freedom words like the Arab Spring while they keep on bombing their lands.

We must not import freedom from anyone, we must not transfer your understanding of freedom. We must develop our own version and you must stop trying to export your beloved regime everywhere.

If the West could stop pokin its nose everyone else´s business, this world would be a better place. To prove this point just check out how much money the West has so far poured into wars and conflicts and how much for the charity work? Stop trying to help the world. Just leave the world alone.

slavica liked this message
(76 Messages in 8 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
Why yer gördüm but yeri geziyorum
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, makes perfect sense!
Etmeyi vs etmek
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much!
Görülmez vs görünmiyor
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, very well explained!
Içeri and içeriye
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much for the detailed ...
Present continous tense
HaydiDeer: Got it, thank you!
Hic vs herhangi, degil vs yok
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much!
Rize Artvin Airport Transfer - Rize Tours
rizetours: Dear Guest; In order to make your Black Sea trip more enjoyable, our c...
What does \"kabul ettiğini\" mean?
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much for the detailed ...
Kimse vs biri (anyone)
HaydiDeer: Thank you!
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most commented