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60.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 05:48 pm

I don´t know about the "striving" part but I am sure Turkish is one of the most difficult languages to learn. It takes a lot of dedication to master it. The speakers of the other agglutinative languages feel the same about their own languages. Finnish for example is a lot more difficult compared to say Dutch.

It takes a lot to learn Turkish; the learners have my respect...

Efi70 liked this message
61.       Abla
3648 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 06:28 pm

The more I have learned about Turkish the more I have begun to admire those Turks who speak good English. They have come a long way from the structures of their native language. If I didn´t study Turkish myself I would have no idea of this: when you learn new things the world grows bigger for you.

 

I am a native speaker of an agglutinative language also but it is not the same. Swedish has had a remarkable affect on the Finnish sentence. For instance we have the same kind of participle structures like in Turkish (that´s why they are easy for me to learn) but in present day Finnish they are very much replaced with Indo-European type subclauses. The step to speaking English is not so long for a Finnish schooler.

 

62.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 07:56 pm

The linguistic history of Finland must be one of the most interesting. The Finnish language is like the test tube of how communities adopt a language, how they turn their back to it due to the changes in the cultural environment and how it revived due to the rise of patriotic feelings.

The way I perceive it, no matter how great the influence of other cultures can be, a language tends to hold on to its own grammar. For example, despite massive changes it has had due to Persian and Arabic influence, Turkish has retained its grammar to a great extent. The abundance of Persian, Arabic, Italian and Greek loan words can be explained in the context of a great empire extending several continents. Iran and Arabia had special places because, Iran had been ruled by Turks for centuries and it supports a very huge Azeri population. With the Arabs we have the religion link. Sultans coming after Yavuz did their best to convert the native communities in Anatolia into Sunnites.

63.       Abla
3648 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 10:25 pm

Quote:vineyards

The way I perceive it, no matter how great the influence of other cultures can be, a language tends to hold on to its own grammar.

 

I very much think like you. Comparing the foreign influence in Turkish and Finnish has surprised me. It seems that behind influence that causes syntactic changes there has to be more than usual cultural contacts, more like a symbiotic relationship. One explanation is in the development of written Finnish which for a long time followed Swedish models but I think there is still more to it.

 

The interesting thing is we are still not bilingual. The second national language is a foreign language to most Finns.

 

You notice it in a small scale when you put a child into a foreign environment. The words change quickly because she learns easily. The grammatical structure of the mother tongue stays. The result is a funny combination of homelike grammar and alien vocabulary.

64.       Abla
3648 posts
 05 Jun 2012 Tue 04:08 pm

Quote:vineyards

Sultans coming after Yavuz did their best to convert the native communities in Anatolia into Sunnites.

 

Why do you mention Yavuz especially? (Curiosity...)

65.       vineyards
1954 posts
 05 Jun 2012 Tue 08:12 pm

Because many of Turkey´s current minority and religion related problems can be traced back to him. He is regarded very highly by conservative Sunnites and hated by everyone else. To some, he was the Stalin or Hitler of his time. He sowed the seeds of hatred in Anatolia mass murdering tens of thousands of people.



Edited (6/5/2012) by vineyards

66.       Abla
3648 posts
 05 Jun 2012 Tue 08:54 pm

I see. I knew Yavuz was a murderer but I thought it was more like the spirit of the time.

 

I have been trying to create a basic picture of the Sultanate after Fatih but my problem is I read Turkish so slowly I have no chance to practice any kind of source criticism. It´s just my luck what ends up in my hands. But I have noticed the articles I find in the Internet are often controversial. There is the official truth plus several inofficial ones which with some luck you can find in newspaper columns or history forums, if you succeed to avoid all the pure fiction which is available.

 

There is a very strong rumour about the Ottoman Empire having gone to Jewish hands after Kanuni. Some even say the Empire was exposed to a Jewish complot. I don´t know if these texts are based on serious research or if they serve certain purposes. And if so, whose purposes?

67.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 06 Jun 2012 Wed 12:49 am

 

Quoting Abla

I see. I knew Yavuz was a murderer but I thought it was more like the spirit of the time.

 

I have been trying to create a basic picture of the Sultanate after Fatih but my problem is I read Turkish so slowly I have no chance to practice any kind of source criticism. It´s just my luck what ends up in my hands. But I have noticed the articles I find in the Internet are often controversial. There is the official truth plus several inofficial ones which with some luck you can find in newspaper columns or history forums, if you succeed to avoid all the pure fiction which is available.

 

There is a very strong rumour about the Ottoman Empire having gone to Jewish hands after Kanuni. Some even say the Empire was exposed to a Jewish complot. I don´t know if these texts are based on serious research or if they serve certain purposes. And if so, whose purposes?

 

It´s always easier to blame the Jews... anti-semitism is reason enough.

68.       tunci
7149 posts
 06 Jun 2012 Wed 01:02 am

 

Quoting Abla

I see. I knew Yavuz was a murderer but I thought it was more like the spirit of the time.

 

I have been trying to create a basic picture of the Sultanate after Fatih but my problem is I read Turkish so slowly I have no chance to practice any kind of source criticism. It´s just my luck what ends up in my hands. But I have noticed the articles I find in the Internet are often controversial. There is the official truth plus several inofficial ones which with some luck you can find in newspaper columns or history forums, if you succeed to avoid all the pure fiction which is available.

 

There is a very strong rumour about the Ottoman Empire having gone to Jewish hands after Kanuni. Some even say the Empire was exposed to a Jewish complot . I don´t know if these texts are based on serious research or if they serve certain purposes. And if so, whose purposes?

 

Dear Abla, that rumour is lacking so much believability. In other words it sounds like one of a conspiracy theory on Ottoman History.

 

69.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 06 Jun 2012 Wed 02:20 am

ottomans sometimes worked with jews, greeks, armenians... that doesnt mean ottomans are under their control. many sadrazams, prime ministers of that time was european origin. ottomans was not a national empire, as long as someone is useful they used him!

 

about yavuz sultan selim, only shia (turkish alevi) people hate him. he was in war with another turkish sultan called shah Ismail from iran. he defeated shah ismail. since that time, shia people always talk about him badly. yes he was quite tough as most of the sultans. some people from anatolia supported shah ismail at that war, yavuz got very angry and was cruel to those who supported shah ismail aganist him. btw, shah ismail was a fanatic shia.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ismail_I

70.       vona
150 posts
 06 Jun 2012 Wed 08:14 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

I try to understand what Saidi Nursi wants to tell. I try to be obejective as much as I can. And I know this very well, knowledge is power.

 

 

 

  Yeah, knowledge is power. Here is what he said on the reason for 1939 Erzincan earthquake. Enjoy it and for more follow the link below. 

 First Question: More distressing than the material disaster of the present severe earthquake are its immaterial aspects; the fear and despair at further earthquakes is destroying the nightly rest of most of the people in most areas. What is the reason for this terrible torment? 

The Answer, again in regard to its Meaning: It has been said that the drunken, licentious songs, some of which were performed by girls, being broadcast rapturously by means of the radio during the tarawih prayers of the month of Ramazan in every corner of this blessed centre of Islam resulted in the torment of this fear.


http://www.nur.gen.tr/en.html#maincontent=Risale&islem=read&KitapId=456&BolumId=8502&KitapAd=The+Words&Page=185

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