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Let's ???
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| 30. |
17 Jul 2006 Mon 10:31 pm |
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Two days ago I made many additions to winmekmak's dictionary and I corrected many of the existing translations. The total of changes I made were around thousand and the majority was new entries. I hope soon, when the new version comes it will be more accurate on translations.
I helped to the author Per, voluntarily as this is such a nice tool and is available for free. A week ago Per and me talked about a program for nouns. Actually this was a long time plan by me and by chance Per said he/she had designed such a tool long time ago but didn't improve it much. We are considering this issue.
If you have any suggestions you can mention them:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_5884
A list on exceptions would be great. I will take notes on this.
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| 31. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:16 am |
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Quoting deli: Quoting lululy: is there a term in turksih for "Let's" or " Let us"??
e.g. Let's sing. |
gidelim= lets go
bakalim= lets look
elim and alim means lets, i think :-S
but the i in alim has no dot  |
Well - nearly it seems........
The optative tense is simply -e or -a
The additional -(l)im suffix is the 1st person plural suffix.
The optative suffix can be followed by the full range of conjugutative suffixes:
ben gid-e-y-im
sen gid-e-sin
o gid-e
biz gid-e-lim
siz gid-e-siniz
onlar gid-e-ler
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| 32. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:30 am |
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Quoting bod:
Well - nearly it seems........
The optative tense is simply -e or -a
The additional -(l)im suffix is the 1st person plural suffix.
The optative suffix can be followed by the full range of conjugutative suffixes:
ben gid-e-y-im
sen gid-e-sin
o gid-e
biz gid-e-lim
siz gid-e-siniz
onlar gid-e-ler |
You are talking about let's here ??
İf so, then ,no it is not the case here
Because it is
Biz---- AlIm
Ben-----AylIm
and we use (y) buffer with both cases when there is a vowel in the end of eylem
Ok let me extend this
When it come to sen,siz,o,onlar
İt is a different story,we here Emir Zaman'da
Even in English we don't use Let's except with we,
Let's eat
Let's dance
We don't use it with others 'he,she,it,you,they'
İt would be like an order
but it can come with 'İ' also in a different meaning,like intend
as to say,
Let me eat now,i'm hungry
İt is your intend to eat,you are not really ordering yourself here
İ hope i manage to deliver what i mean,and answered your question
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| 33. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:43 am |
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Quoting _Canlı: Quoting bod: The optative tense is simply -e or -a
The additional -(l)im suffix is the 1st person plural suffix.
The optative suffix can be followed by the full range of conjugutative suffixes:
ben gid-e-y-im
sen gid-e-sin
o gid-e
biz gid-e-lim
siz gid-e-siniz
onlar gid-e-ler |
You are talking about let's here ?? |
The above was copied directly out of WinMekMak.......
"Let me, Let you, Let us........etc" are all formed using the optative tense in Turkish are they not???? And the optative suffix is -e.
Therefore "elim" is NOT a single suffix - it is a concatonation of two suffixes.
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| 34. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:52 am |
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i've modified my post above,check it out
İs there something called LET YOU ??
İt is not valid in english too ,right ?
we don't say, let you eat
We either say,
Would you eat ... that would be like a suggestion
Or Eat, like an order
and that goes too on let they,let him,
So We use another form for it in English too,it is same here too Türkçe'de
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| 35. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 06:20 am |
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Bod is right on this issue. We use the optative tense (which doesn't exist in English) to build sentences smillar like those sentences with "let's".
On reply #18 I had already mentioned the optative and had given these examples:
ben gid-e-y-im
Let me go
sen gid-e-sin
biz gid-e-lim
Let us go.
siz gid-e-siniz
Canlı,
Your sentence " hadi yatalım " is the optative tense of yatmak. "Yatalım" has the personal suffix of "biz". It is "yat" (verb stem) + a (optative tense suffix) + lım (second person plural suffix).
"ben yat-a-y-ım
sen yat-a-sın
biz yat-a-lım
siz yat-a-sınız"
smillarly is bod's example:
ben gid-e-y-im : Let me go
sen gid-e-sin : I hope you go.
biz gid-e-lim : Let us go.
siz gid-e-siniz : I hope you go.
My only objection to optative tense in winmekmak is that it doesn't have any forms for both third person. So there is not something such as:
o gid-e
onlar gid-e-ler
These two have been replaced with imperatives:
o git-sin
onlar git-sinler
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| 36. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:24 pm |
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Quoting erdinc: Bod is right on this issue. |
It had to happen eventually Erdinç 
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| 37. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:26 pm |
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Quoting erdinc: My only objection to optative tense in winmekmak is that it doesn't have any forms for both third person. So there is not something such as:
o gid-e
onlar gid-e-ler
These two have been replaced with imperatives:
o git-sin
onlar git-sinler |
Are you saying that o gid-e and onlar gid-e-ler are not correct Türkçe words even though WinMekMak lists them as being valid word forms?
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| 38. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 01:22 pm |
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Quoting erdinc: Canlı,
Your sentence " hadi yatalım " is the optative tense of yatmak. "Yatalım" has the personal suffix of "biz". It is "yat" (verb stem) + a (optative tense suffix) + lım (second person plural suffix).
"ben yat-a-y-ım
sen yat-a-sın
biz yat-a-lım
siz yat-a-sınız"
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erdinç,
anladım,optative tense when it come to ben and biz,but i thought the optative suffix is alım for biz and ayım for ben
Because those only the 2 cases which existed
And it is not there for sen and siz
So if A is the optative suffix, so what is the lım ?? kişi eki ?
Shouldn't be Iz with biz ?? or does kişi eki change with optative tense ? :-S
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| 39. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 01:40 pm |
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Quoting bod: Are you saying that o gid-e and onlar gid-e-ler are not correct Türkçe words even though WinMekMak lists them as being valid word forms? |
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Because they are listed on winmekmak doesn't make them valid. I have already suggested them to be removed.
These conjugations have been replaced with infinitive. Some infinitive conjugations are also replaced with optative.
Let me explain with one example. Let's take the verb görmek. This is what winmekmak suggests:
Quote:
optative tense of görmek:
1.singular: ben gör-e-y-im : Let me see
2.singular: sen gör-e-sin
3.singular: o gör-e
1.plural: biz gör-e-lim
2.plural: siz gör-e-siniz
3.plural: onlar gör-e-ler
Infinitive Tense of görmek:
1.singular:
2.singular: sen gör!: See!
3.singular: o gör-sün!
1.plural: biz gör-elim!
2.plural: siz gör-ünüz!
3.plural: onlar gör-sün-ler! |
This is what it should be :
Quote:
optative tense of görmek:
1.singular: ben gör-e-y-im : Let me see
2.singular: sen gör-e-sin
3.singular:
1.plural: biz gör-e-lim
2.plural: siz gör-e-siniz
3.plural:
Infinitive Tense of görmek:
1.singular:
2.singular: sen gör!: See!
3.singular: o gör-sün!
1.plural:
2.plural: siz gör-ünüz!
3.plural: onlar gör-sün-ler! |
You might say this chart is incomplete. Yes I agree. Optative tense is missing both 3th persons. For these cases Infinitive should be used.
On the other hand infinitive tense is missing both first person and for these cases optative should be used.
These two tenses are becoming one single tense. The third persons in optative existed in the past but in todays language they are dismissed. Both second persons in optative tense have become uncommon now. I'm expecting them to be dismissed as well. At the end optative and infinitive will form a single tense.
There is something like "gide gide", "sora sora", "baka baka", (by looking again and again), "konuşa konuşa" (by speaking again and again) This tells that the action is done repeatedy. This pattern will remain in our language even though the optative is dismissed for third poersons.
In short we don't say "Ahmet okula gide" but we say "Ahmet okula gitsin."
We can say "Okula gide gide çok şey öğreneceksin." The repeated versions should be unederstood as a pattern and not a valid conjutation as they don't apply to conjugations.
Here are some more examples:
"kolay gele" > "kolay gelsin"
"geçmiş ola" > "geçmiş olsun"
In the past optative for third persons existed like in thesetwo examples. Even today, locally you can find them. Correct versions are as show with gelsin, olsun.
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| 40. |
18 Jul 2006 Tue 01:42 pm |
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Yes they have different type of personal suffixes. There are 4 types of personal suffixes.
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