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Let's ???
(41 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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1.       lululy
0 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:22 pm

is there a term in turksih for "Let's" or " Let us"??
e.g. Let's sing.

2.       deli
5904 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:26 pm

Quoting lululy:

is there a term in turksih for "Let's" or " Let us"??
e.g. Let's sing.

sarki soyleyelim

gidelim= lets go

bakalim= lets look
elim and alim means lets, i think :-S
but the i in alim has no dot

3.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:30 pm

Quoting lululy:

is there a term in turksih for "Let's" or " Let us"??
e.g. Let's sing.



Evet,there is the suffix Alım

And A, I can be change to E,İ accourding to the vowel harmony rule

Y,is a buffer to seperat between them if it will come after a word ended with vowel

lets sing - şarkı söyleyelim

lets come- gelelim

No buffer cause there is no vowel in the end of the verb

gelmek...gel

Evet deli, doğru

Sry i didn't see you have posted already

4.       deli
5904 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:36 pm

thanks canli you did it with explanations aswell

5.       lululy
0 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:38 pm

mmm i guess i understand!!
yatalim = let's go to bed???
am i right??

6.       deli
5904 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:40 pm

i think lets go to bed would be
yataga gidelim?

7.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:45 pm


my pleasure deli to help if i can

Quoting lululy:

mmm i guess i understand!!
yatalim = let's go to bed???
am i right??



Well, if you meant the İ to be I and it is only typo then you put it right into this rule

But then you have to change T to a D cause it followed by a vowel
İt is a rule and come with any T followed by vowel

when those letters are followd by vowels they turn into the others

T-----D
P-----B
Ç-----c
K-----Ğ


then it should be yadalım

As in gitmek ,,it turn into gidelim

8.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:49 pm

Yes in fact there is > hadi

9.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:49 pm

Quoting deli:

i think lets go to bed would be
yataga gidelim?



Well deli,checking the dictionary ,so Yadalım sound right to me

http://www.turkishdictionary.net/

yatmak

1. to go to bed.


İf not ,then i hope to be corrected

10.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:53 pm

lol like in football

İ heard them said Hadi bastır
And in the song too

Haydi bastır galatasaray

My favorite team tho

11.       deli
5904 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 07:58 pm

ive changed my mind again
i think lets go to bed is
yataka girelim

12.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:03 pm

Belmiyorum !

Maybe it can be right too

But as erdinc has posted earlier

İt is,, Hadi yadalım

But maybe it is doğru also

13.       lululy
0 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:05 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Yes in fact there is > hadi


how to use hadi to make sentences???

14.       deli
5904 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:08 pm

now im totally confused
i thought k chages to g if a vowel is in front of it

15.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:16 pm

Quoting deli:

now im totally confused
i thought k chages to g if a vowel is in front of it


İnfront of a k ??

No,after it,i was trying to find a word end with K and at same time there is no vowel before it,but i couldn't

all it came to me çocuk---çocuğum

bebek----bebeğim :-S

neyse, that rule goes for the 4 letters,if it come AFTER them a vowel, you change to the other soft 4 letters

16.       bod
5999 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:17 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Yes in fact there is > hadi



So which would be a correct translation for "let's go to the beach"?

Hadi plaj gidiyorumuz
Plaj gidelim

17.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:20 pm

Quoting bod:

Quoting erdinc:

Yes in fact there is > hadi



So which would be a correct translation for "let's go to the beach"?

Hadi plaj gidiyorumuz
Plaj gidelim



Hadi Plaja gidelim

Zennittim

18.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:21 pm

correct spellings are :
"yatağa"
"yatalım"

Hadi is an interjection. It is common to put it at the beginning of a sentence. When thinking again I realised that it might be closer to "come on" in English than it is to "let us".

Anyway. The optative tense for second person plural is very common as well as it was suggested above.

Example:
Verb form found:
git-mek

ben gid-e-y-im
Let me go
sen gid-e-sin
biz gid-e-lim
Let us go.
siz gid-e-siniz

"Hadi gidelim", "hadi konuşalım" or the other way "gidelim hadi ", "konuşalım hadi".

19.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:21 pm

"Hadi plaja gidelim" is correct.

20.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:25 pm

Quoting erdinc:

correct spellings are :
"yatağa"
"yatalım"



Erdinc ??
why didn't we changed the T to a D here ?

Shouldn't it be yadalım ? :-S

21.       deli
5904 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:30 pm

so the sentence come on lets go to bed
hadi yataga gidelim? :-S

22.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:38 pm

The consonant mutation rule rarely applies to one syllable words. One syllable words are the ones that have one vowel. There are very few exceptions.


Quoting _Canlı:

Quoting erdinc:

correct spellings are :
"yatağa"
"yatalım"



Erdinc ??
why didn't we changed the T to a D here ?

Shouldn't it be yadalım ? :-S

23.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:44 pm

Anladım,Tşk Ederim

24.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 08:46 pm

I found an old topic on this issue:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_3143

25.       xXxPaigexXx
199 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 09:09 pm

hehe sorry to butt in..so if i wanted to say 'lets dance' would i say dansalım..i have a feeling thats wrong! please correct me

26.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 09:33 pm

If there had been a verb like "dansmak" then it would be correct but there isn't.

In a dictionary when you are looking for a Turkish always look for a ending with -mak or -mek.

By double clicking on this word > dance < you can access our dictionary.

27.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 09:33 pm

Çok Tşk Edrinc

Very helpful,as usual

Well,you got the right feeling
it is not right,,lol

it is dans etmek the eylem of dans'the verb'

So it should be Dans etelim ,

but i don't know if it take the (I) suffix or not,so it is either this or Dansı etelim

pls correct me

28.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 09:44 pm

Hi Canlı,

This time it is the other way. The "et" in etmek follows consonant mutation even though it is one syllable. I haven't seen so far any source that mentiones more detail except that single syllables usually don't follow. It would be a nice topic for research.


Maybe there should be a list of these:
çok > çoğu
dans etmek > dans ediyorum
gitmek > gidiyorum

Have you tried winmekmak? It always get's the conjugations correct.
On number 21 on this page:
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_1448

"dans etmek" is a verb with two words. "Etmek" is an auxiliary verb that builds verbs out of nouns.

Example:
yardım etmek, şikayet etmek

We have around 15 auxiliary verbs.

29.       _Canlı
175 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 09:59 pm

Ohh erdinc,and i thought i finally got the consonant mutation right ,, lol

Ama anladım

İt is kind of exceptions,i hope there would be a way to get a list of all exception in Türkçe
there are not much ,but there are stil exist

Like eylem with Ir in Geniş Zaman almak-bilmek....

Like those words,although i don't understand the rule,except its easier in pronounciation

İsim - Şehir -oğlu -resim -karın -gönül...
when we add sufix with a vowel, we cancel the last vowel

İsmim - Şehrim - oğlum -.....and so

And now the exception of the consonant mutation with 1 syllable

each one of those exception are not much about 15 words,but is there a list for this kind of exceptions ?

Quoting erdinc:

Hi Canlı,

Have you tried winmekmak? It always get's the conjugations correct.



İ did ,but sometimes it didn't give me the right meaning of the verb,and i was trying to use it to understand the meaning of the tense
But it is wonderful when it get the eylem doğru

Btw,isn't there similler program for adlar and sıfatlar ??

30.       erdinc
2151 posts
 17 Jul 2006 Mon 10:31 pm

Two days ago I made many additions to winmekmak's dictionary and I corrected many of the existing translations. The total of changes I made were around thousand and the majority was new entries. I hope soon, when the new version comes it will be more accurate on translations.

I helped to the author Per, voluntarily as this is such a nice tool and is available for free. A week ago Per and me talked about a program for nouns. Actually this was a long time plan by me and by chance Per said he/she had designed such a tool long time ago but didn't improve it much. We are considering this issue.

If you have any suggestions you can mention them:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_5884


A list on exceptions would be great. I will take notes on this.

31.       bod
5999 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:16 am

Quoting deli:

Quoting lululy:

is there a term in turksih for "Let's" or " Let us"??
e.g. Let's sing.

sarki soyleyelim

gidelim= lets go

bakalim= lets look
elim and alim means lets, i think :-S
but the i in alim has no dot



Well - nearly it seems........

The optative tense is simply -e or -a
The additional -(l)im suffix is the 1st person plural suffix.

The optative suffix can be followed by the full range of conjugutative suffixes:
ben gid-e-y-im
sen gid-e-sin
o gid-e
biz gid-e-lim
siz gid-e-siniz
onlar gid-e-ler

32.       _Canlı
175 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:30 am

Quoting bod:



Well - nearly it seems........

The optative tense is simply -e or -a
The additional -(l)im suffix is the 1st person plural suffix.

The optative suffix can be followed by the full range of conjugutative suffixes:
ben gid-e-y-im
sen gid-e-sin
o gid-e
biz gid-e-lim
siz gid-e-siniz
onlar gid-e-ler



You are talking about let's here ??

İf so, then ,no it is not the case here

Because it is

Biz---- AlIm
Ben-----AylIm
and we use (y) buffer with both cases when there is a vowel in the end of eylem

Ok let me extend this

When it come to sen,siz,o,onlar
İt is a different story,we here Emir Zaman'da

Even in English we don't use Let's except with we,
Let's eat
Let's dance
We don't use it with others 'he,she,it,you,they'
İt would be like an order

but it can come with 'İ' also in a different meaning,like intend
as to say,
Let me eat now,i'm hungry
İt is your intend to eat,you are not really ordering yourself here

İ hope i manage to deliver what i mean,and answered your question

33.       bod
5999 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:43 am

Quoting _Canlı:

Quoting bod:

The optative tense is simply -e or -a
The additional -(l)im suffix is the 1st person plural suffix.

The optative suffix can be followed by the full range of conjugutative suffixes:
ben gid-e-y-im
sen gid-e-sin
o gid-e
biz gid-e-lim
siz gid-e-siniz
onlar gid-e-ler



You are talking about let's here ??



The above was copied directly out of WinMekMak.......
"Let me, Let you, Let us........etc" are all formed using the optative tense in Turkish are they not???? And the optative suffix is -e.

Therefore "elim" is NOT a single suffix - it is a concatonation of two suffixes.

34.       _Canlı
175 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:52 am

i've modified my post above,check it out

İs there something called LET YOU ??
İt is not valid in english too ,right ?

we don't say, let you eat
We either say,

Would you eat ... that would be like a suggestion
Or Eat, like an order
and that goes too on let they,let him,

So We use another form for it in English too,it is same here too Türkçe'de

35.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 06:20 am

Bod is right on this issue. We use the optative tense (which doesn't exist in English) to build sentences smillar like those sentences with "let's".

On reply #18 I had already mentioned the optative and had given these examples:

ben gid-e-y-im
Let me go
sen gid-e-sin
biz gid-e-lim
Let us go.
siz gid-e-siniz

Canlı,
Your sentence " hadi yatalım " is the optative tense of yatmak. "Yatalım" has the personal suffix of "biz". It is "yat" (verb stem) + a (optative tense suffix) + lım (second person plural suffix).

"ben yat-a-y-ım
sen yat-a-sın
biz yat-a-lım
siz yat-a-sınız"

smillarly is bod's example:

ben gid-e-y-im : Let me go
sen gid-e-sin : I hope you go.
biz gid-e-lim : Let us go.
siz gid-e-siniz : I hope you go.

My only objection to optative tense in winmekmak is that it doesn't have any forms for both third person. So there is not something such as:

o gid-e
onlar gid-e-ler

These two have been replaced with imperatives:

o git-sin
onlar git-sinler

36.       bod
5999 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:24 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Bod is right on this issue.



It had to happen eventually Erdinç lol

37.       bod
5999 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 12:26 pm

Quoting erdinc:

My only objection to optative tense in winmekmak is that it doesn't have any forms for both third person. So there is not something such as:

o gid-e
onlar gid-e-ler

These two have been replaced with imperatives:

o git-sin
onlar git-sinler



Are you saying that o gid-e and onlar gid-e-ler are not correct Türkçe words even though WinMekMak lists them as being valid word forms?

38.       _Canlı
175 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 01:22 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Canlı,
Your sentence " hadi yatalım " is the optative tense of yatmak. "Yatalım" has the personal suffix of "biz". It is "yat" (verb stem) + a (optative tense suffix) + lım (second person plural suffix).

"ben yat-a-y-ım
sen yat-a-sın
biz yat-a-lım
siz yat-a-sınız"



erdinç,
anladım,optative tense when it come to ben and biz,but i thought the optative suffix is alım for biz and ayım for ben
Because those only the 2 cases which existed

And it is not there for sen and siz

So if A is the optative suffix, so what is the lım ?? kişi eki ?
Shouldn't be Iz with biz ?? or does kişi eki change with optative tense ? :-S

39.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 01:40 pm

Quoting bod:

Are you saying that o gid-e and onlar gid-e-ler are not correct Türkçe words even though WinMekMak lists them as being valid word forms?



Yes, that's what I'm saying. Because they are listed on winmekmak doesn't make them valid. I have already suggested them to be removed.

These conjugations have been replaced with infinitive. Some infinitive conjugations are also replaced with optative.

Let me explain with one example. Let's take the verb görmek. This is what winmekmak suggests:

Quote:


optative tense of görmek:
1.singular: ben gör-e-y-im : Let me see
2.singular: sen gör-e-sin
3.singular: o gör-e

1.plural: biz gör-e-lim
2.plural: siz gör-e-siniz
3.plural: onlar gör-e-ler

Infinitive Tense of görmek:
1.singular:
2.singular: sen gör!: See!
3.singular: o gör-sün!

1.plural: biz gör-elim!
2.plural: siz gör-ünüz!
3.plural: onlar gör-sün-ler!



This is what it should be :

Quote:


optative tense of görmek:
1.singular: ben gör-e-y-im : Let me see
2.singular: sen gör-e-sin
3.singular:

1.plural: biz gör-e-lim
2.plural: siz gör-e-siniz
3.plural:

Infinitive Tense of görmek:
1.singular:
2.singular: sen gör!: See!
3.singular: o gör-sün!

1.plural:
2.plural: siz gör-ünüz!
3.plural: onlar gör-sün-ler!



You might say this chart is incomplete. Yes I agree. Optative tense is missing both 3th persons. For these cases Infinitive should be used.

On the other hand infinitive tense is missing both first person and for these cases optative should be used.

These two tenses are becoming one single tense. The third persons in optative existed in the past but in todays language they are dismissed. Both second persons in optative tense have become uncommon now. I'm expecting them to be dismissed as well. At the end optative and infinitive will form a single tense.

There is something like "gide gide", "sora sora", "baka baka", (by looking again and again), "konuşa konuşa" (by speaking again and again) This tells that the action is done repeatedy. This pattern will remain in our language even though the optative is dismissed for third poersons.

In short we don't say "Ahmet okula gide" but we say "Ahmet okula gitsin."

We can say "Okula gide gide çok şey öğreneceksin." The repeated versions should be unederstood as a pattern and not a valid conjutation as they don't apply to conjugations.

Here are some more examples:

"kolay gele" > "kolay gelsin"
"geçmiş ola" > "geçmiş olsun"

In the past optative for third persons existed like in thesetwo examples. Even today, locally you can find them. Correct versions are as show with gelsin, olsun.



40.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 01:42 pm

Yes they have different type of personal suffixes. There are 4 types of personal suffixes.

41.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 13 Sep 2008 Sat 07:45 pm

being moved to Language section

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