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-ki and -in suffixes
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| 10. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 03:10 pm |
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| 11. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 03:19 pm |
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Quoting scalpel: Quoting bod: Quoting caliptrix: dışardaki - without n, and "-ki" is always "-ki", never changes to "-kı" |
Oh - another suffix that disobeys vowel harmony........
How many more will I find???
So far I know of three:
-iyor
-abil
-ki
Are there any more?
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-yor disobeys vowel harmony but not -iyor:
gel.i.yor
çal.ı.yor
sun.u.yor
gül.ü.yor
-abil / -ebil
(a,ı,o,u)=> abil
kal.a.bil, kıs.a.bil, kus.a.bil, çoş.a.bil
(e,i,ö,ü) => -ebil
sev.e.bil,gir.e.bil,gör.e.bil,gül.e.bil |
Yes - perhaps "disobeys" was not the right word......
Strictly -iyor conforms to vowel harmony as o never changes. It just happens that -iyor is the only Turkish suffix that contains an o!
What I meant with -abil is that normally all vowels in a suffix change according to vowel harmony - such as -ecek / -acak and -meksizin / -maksızın. But only the first vowel changes in -ebil / -abil.
With -ki it only has two forms -ki / -kü - there is no -kı on -ku form. So it behaves differently with vowel harmony to other suffixes.
Are there any others that either do not have all the expected forms, or where all their vowels do not change according to vowel harmony?
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| 12. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 03:35 pm |
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| 13. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 03:37 pm |
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Quoting scalpel: it seems so...but the old form of çünkü was çünki...i think (ü) forces -ki to change into -kü if a monosyllabic word ends in -ün:
gün.kü
dün.kü
çün.kü
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I didn't realise that it was çün-kü - I thought it was a single word without a suffix......what does (did?) the unsuffixed çün mean???
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| 14. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 04:07 pm |
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Quoting bod:
I didn't realise that it was çün-kü - I thought it was a single word without a suffix......what does (did?) the unsuffixed çün mean??? |
I don't know what it means, maybe it came from Ottoman Turkish and has become so common, that also the native speakers don't really realize that 'çünkü' is built from a suffix (if this is true  .
But I think you were the one who noticed this too.. sometimes when people use the word 'çünkü', it does sound like 'çünkü'.
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| 15. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 04:12 pm |
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Btw, my dictionary says that both 'çünkü' and 'çünki' are correct in usage.
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| 16. |
07 Aug 2006 Mon 10:14 pm |
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| 17. |
14 Aug 2006 Mon 01:48 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting scalpel: Quoting bod: Quoting caliptrix: dışardaki - without n, and "-ki" is always "-ki", never changes to "-kı" |
Oh - another suffix that disobeys vowel harmony........
How many more will I find???
So far I know of three:
-iyor
-abil
-ki
Are there any more?
|
-yor disobeys vowel harmony but not -iyor:
gel.i.yor
çal.ı.yor
sun.u.yor
gül.ü.yor
-abil / -ebil
(a,ı,o,u)=> abil
kal.a.bil, kıs.a.bil, kus.a.bil, çoş.a.bil
(e,i,ö,ü) => -ebil
sev.e.bil,gir.e.bil,gör.e.bil,gül.e.bil |
Yes - perhaps "disobeys" was not the right word......
Strictly -iyor conforms to vowel harmony as o never changes. It just happens that -iyor is the only Turkish suffix that contains an o!
What I meant with -abil is that normally all vowels in a suffix change according to vowel harmony - such as -ecek / -acak and -meksizin / -maksızın. But only the first vowel changes in -ebil / -abil.
With -ki it only has two forms -ki / -kü - there is no -kı on -ku form. So it behaves differently with vowel harmony to other suffixes.
Are there any others that either do not have all the expected forms, or where all their vowels do not change according to vowel harmony? |
More? Yes, -ken.
Gelir-ken
Geliyor-ken
Yapar-ken
etc.
As for the first wovel changing, it is because they are compound verbs
"yapabilmek" is actually "yap-a bilmek", so bilmek part doesn't change. The same is true for i-yor/ı-yor/u-yor/ü-yor. It was actually V-a yor, so yor part doesn't change. With sound changes i-yor sometimes drops i- part when the verb ends with a consonant.
Eri-mek -- eri-yor (suffix = -yor)
But
Er-mek -- er-i-yor (suffix = i-yor)
Bile-mek -- Bili-yor (Bile- verb stem becomes bili- for easier pronunciation)
Bil-mek -- Bil-i-yor
etc.
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| 18. |
14 Aug 2006 Mon 02:42 pm |
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| 19. |
26 Aug 2006 Sat 12:30 pm |
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Ok,i understand (ki ) when it comes with the word
Like evdeki, arabadak
But sometimes it come seperated from the word,
İ saw it in a sentence in the translate it forum
İ didn't know how to put it,so i translated it as if it wasn't seperated
So what is the difference in meaning and usadge between them ?
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| 20. |
26 Aug 2006 Sat 12:39 pm |
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Check this link.
I thought there was more to be found on this site about -ki, haven't found it yet though..
Someone?
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