If you understood - I am very happy but equally surprised ´cos I made several ´dyslecsic´ typing errors.

But needs that I thank you.  It has cleared up many anciliary tpoics in my own mind.  Yaþa, yaþa lol.

Tazx1

 Yes, I am dyslexic but this time I made ´doubley´ sure to confirm taht the wretched ´Colloquial TURKISH´  does say >> ANLÝYAN-A´ and this is what caused me trouble.  Neyse the translation: -

"that motion tells much thing to people who understood"  makes no sense to me at all.

Is ´anlatir´ not a CAUSATIVE verb -  ie. anlatmak - to explain, > anlamak - to understand!!!!

So> ´anlatýr = They explain !! Not = They understand !!

Where does ´to understand´ or ´UNDERSTOOD´ come from?????  Unless it is just a ´pure colloquialism´ - if it is I´ll buy it.

Akilim çok bozuktýr.

Thanks

Please can someone translate this to establish the meaning of ´anlýyan-a´  &  ´anlat-ir´

>>´Ãžu hereket anlýyana çok þey anlatir´

Whereas I seem to get the gist ... but something seems wrong.  Altough it may be colloquially in order.

Thanks.

tazx1

 It seems to ME, tha ´Mecbur´ - [as with meþgul] - is one of those rare foreign word which can have a personal suffix directly added to it.  So Mecburu-um [I am helpless, I am compelled] seems a viable proposition.  But ´Sana mecbur-um´ makes no sense!!

But such foregin words [þart, lazim, mecbur] can not conjugated [or is it declined] as regular Turkish verbs like ´Gerekmek´... they will need a suitable auxiliary verb!!

I suppose one could say ´sana mecbur olamk isteyorum´   [olamk isteyorum being verbs]

Mecbur signifies ´not an obligation´ but a state of ´being helpless´ [one can evade an ´obligation´ immoral though it may be, but one cannot avoid ´being helpless´] ... so even in English one cannot meaningfully say, ´I being [mecbur-um]compelled to you [sana]´

´Sana, mecbur-um, anlatiyorum´ - may make sense [I am explaining to you (that) I am helpless]

Exactly like one could NOT say, ´sana meþgulum´  - there is no verb in this sentence, Angel.  Without a verb one cannot have a sentence.  ´Mecburum and meþgulum´ are [I presume] adjectives, not even adverbs. 

´Mecburum olurken/durumda ben tufekle ateþ ettim´ 

´Mecburum, heyvana öldurdum´

´Mecbur idim, odemeden dukkandan çiktim´

[Excuse my Turkish]

It is very helpful to struggle with these words as it establishes ones own comprehension.  But please note that I am only speculating ... as far as Turkish is concerned!!!!!!!!!!! lol 

PS even in Urdu/Farsi ´Majboor´ cannot be used without a verb because it is not a verb by itself.  If one needs to imply, ´I wish to compel you´  ... in Urdu/Farsi we will have to say in (Farsi) ... ´Ãžoma [you], majboor hwaham [I am going to]kard [make]´   ´Majboor´ being only a NOUN - like happy, sad.  In Urdu we will say, ´Meiyn {I} Apko {you} majboor {compel} karoonga {will do}.

Don´t hesitate to send me a priv mesaj till we clear it up.

Tazx1

quoting melek74

>

I´m hoping that some native speakers/experienced learners will be kind enough to provide some examples of how this is actually used. And also how to use "þart".

What I´m also wondering about is, how would it be translated when the object is a noun or pronoun. For example "Sana mecburum" - would it be "I´m obliged to you"? What meaning does that phrase convey?< [end quote]

The syntax for Þart is exactly as for Gerek & Lazim> (Stem+me+person) ´Ãžart´ eg.,

Gel+me+m = Gelmem lazim, Gelmem gerek, gelmem þart   [this I can swera on a stack of ...]

Saat sekizte iþte olmam þart > [I simply have to got be at home at eight o´clock]

Saat sekizte iþte olmam lazim > [I need to be at work at eight o´clock]

As for ´Obliged´ >> ahmmmm!!  As far as I know ´Zorunda kalmak´ means to be obliged eg.,

Þeyleri satin almakten parasi odeme zorunda kaldim [I was obliged to pay after purchasing the goods]

As far as I know ´mecbur´ [Urdu/Farsi - majboor] signifies not an obligation rather a position of helplessness a  person ends up facing.  Angel, I don´t have enough grammar to blind you with technical terminology, but in English, one would say ... I had no opotion but to ... [follow a course of action].  This sense of lack of option is conveyed by the word ´Mecbur´ >> to my knowledge [which is based purely on Urdu/Farsi usage].

Where are cynicmystic and uzun_hava?

tazx1

should it be it has been a month since you havent been araound??  [end of quote]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 tazx1>> says ...

I followed this string with interest ... but, I seek an explanation regarding ´YOKSUN´ > I learnet that ´-sin´ suffixed to a ´stem´ puts verb in an ´imperative mood´ eg., ol-sun, gel-sin, et-sin etc.

Prof. G.L.Lewis has this to say:-

>´There is also a 3rd Person imperative in -sin. this must not be confused with -sin ´thou art´ ...  which is attached to a ´tese-base NRVER TO A NAKED STEM!!!´<

So, ´yoksun´ ought to mean >> ´let it not exist´ >> Please enlighten me.  I place the intuition of a native speaker above and beyond any grammar book.

Tazx1 [over and out]<<<

 Angel, i have also discovered that -miþ suffix is also capable of being added to NOUNS and ADJECTIVES, like:-

Oda balkonlu-y-muþ [The room is/was said to be with a balcony]

Lokanta birinci sinif-miþ [The restaurant is/was reputed to be first class]

Yesilbayir sakin bir koy-muþ [Yesibayir is/was presumably a peaceful village]

elbesim kaç-mýþ [my dress is/was probably torn] .... but [there is always a but]

geç-miþ, dol-muþ, kýzar-mýþ, >> seem to have specific meaning and there is little element of ´speculation´ > ancak, soylediðini gibi, ben de bir oðrenci-miþ-im halde supheliymiþim.  Dikkat etmenize rica ederim.

I her bir dil, onlari almak için sanarim sabirlemek gerekiyor, deðil mi?

Your questions are very apt and ecourage one to investigate.  I always home-in on your posted queries.  Without such questions, it would be a dull world.  Keep up the good work.

And, don´t laugh at my defective Turkish [lol]!  Correct it if you care.

Tazx1

Sorry I completely missed the point regarding the query which Melek74 originally raised regarding ´-miþ´ as in dayamýþ!

I apologise for nonsense in previous post.

Uzun_Hava seems to have explained the syntax competently and according to what I have been able to glean, simple answer seems to be provided by a DIY book I have. viz.,

"The ending ´-miþ´ at the end of a verb means > apparently, supposedly or reportedly´, so in sentences like:-

> Ahmet dukkana girmiþ, kilim satin aldi.  [Ahmet apparently went into a shop, bought a rug]

> Çocuk okula gidip, çok çaliþmiþ.  [The child going to school, probably worked hard]

> Erkek kapiya durmuþ ve dýþýriya bakmýþ [The man seemingly stood at the door and apparently looked out]

the usage of -miþ ought to become fairly clear [I hope].

The sentences are mine and may be linguistically suspect > but I think they will amplify the point I am trying to make.  If I have got things very wrong, please correct my errors.

Thus, the sentence ´Çocuk kapýya dayamýþ, içeriyi dinliyor.´ [The child apparently leaned on the door (and) listened inside´,  will follow the same pattern! I have removed the word ´kulaðýný´ purposely to make things easier to grasp the usage myself.

Am I on the right track????????????

Tazx1

cynicmystic

Thank you for your elaborate ... and comprehensible explanation.  What´s keeping you from turning into a professional >> how thoughtless of me to speculate!  You may already be one!!!!

My one response will be to inform that I love Turkish and its ability to ´metamorph´.  There is much logic in its syntax, and things become plain ... if someone can de-construct the mysteries [few and far between though they may be].

Þimdi çok mutluyum.

tazx1

An excellent question.

May I aske why ´Olan´ has not been used in conjunction with -mis particople?

                         ´Çocuk, kapýya kulaðýný dayamýþ içeriyi dinliyor.´

Can the sentence be re-arranged > ´Kapiya kulaðýný dayamýþ olan çocuk, içeriyi dinliyor.´

Of course it will depend upon the context.

According to ´Manisa´, ´Colloquial Turkish´ and ´Turkish´ by G.L. Lewis >> ´-miþ´ ought have ´Olan´

In conjunction with -miþ, ´Olan´ is said to mean > ´who or which is´ !!

But, Id rather trust the INTUITION of a native speaker rather than all the grammar books put together.

Melek74 >> keep asking excellent questions ... it means a lot to us ´by standers´

Turkce bilenler >> Keep enlightening us ´bilmeyenler´

Tazx1