Quoting femme_fatal:

insulting ataturk is the reason to ban?

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting aenigma x: Quoting femme_fatal: insulting ataturk is the reason to ban? Scared?

Quoting vineyards:

For example, I wouldn't suggest a UK citizen to do something to abolish monarchy and nobility in their country no matter how ridiculously outdated those concepts are in this century.

Quoting vineyards:

Insulting Ataturk is a constitutional offense in our country and this matter is deemed in the purview of the Grand National Assembly which is the only legislative body in Turkey. We do not make laws based on the wishes or suggestions of the citizens of other nations no matter how much better they think they know how national heroes should be commemorated.

For example, I wouldn't suggest a UK citizen to do something to abolish monarchy and nobility in their country no matter how ridiculously outdated those concepts are in this century.

Quoting MrX67:

leaders mortal but countries&nations endless,so i think we need new Atatürks for each age..

Quoting vineyards:

Femme fatal I don't know what super civilized environment you live in but I really don't appreciate to be likened to Stalin. Furthermore, there is a very big difference between criticizing and insulting.

Would you appreciate if I included a nasty joke about Borat raving about Kazakh ways. So, please read carefully before making such absurd analogies.

Quoting vineyards:

Are Bush and Blair national heroes? Do you know what hypocrisy is? Do you know the difference between insulting and (well as you say) bashing?

Quoting vineyards:

Well then femme, about reading posts carefully. You were answering my post and making a reference to Stalin when the purpose of my original post was to remind that insults directed to Ataturk are punishable in Turkey. What kind of connection did you establish with Ataturk being the God of Turkey. It is clear that all your reasons are personal and your conclusions are irrelevant. We don't need to post any messages if you can create subjects and answer them all by yourself. Why don't you start a new topic casting your doubts about Turkish people not being normal in their approach to their national heroes.

Quoting vineyards:

Insulting Ataturk is a constitutional offense in our country and this matter is deemed in the purview of the Grand National Assembly which is the only legislative body in Turkey. We do not make laws based on the wishes or suggestions of the citizens of other nations no matter how much better they think they know how national heroes should be commemorated.

For example, I wouldn't suggest a UK citizen to do something to abolish monarchy and nobility in their country no matter how ridiculously outdated those concepts are in this century.

Quoting KeithL:

Quoting vineyards:

That particular message was for teaschip1

Quoting vineyards:

Are Bush and Blair national heroes? Do you know what hypocrisy is? Do you know the difference between insulting and (well as you say) bashing?

Quoting teaschip1:

Quoting teaschip1:

Like I said we all have our opinions KeithL. In Turkey he maybe a "National hereo". However, in other countries you may get a different opinion. I still think you have missed my point regarding "insulting". hmmm

Quoting vineyards:

teaschip1, that's certainly not the way to discussing. You don't need to simplify anything because I find your intention quite concise and easy to understand. Another reason why you shouldn't streamline is because you may get tangled in that line yourself. Majority of people here don't know how to discuss whether they may be Turks or people of other nations. It is only those streamlined minds who classify people into preset behaviours. Once you set yourself apart from a class of people, you can do as much jive talking as you want. You don't even have to drink a few glasses of wine to do that.

Quoting teaschip1:

What's jive talking by the way?

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting teaschip1:

Quoting aenigma x: Quoting teaschip1: Like I said we all have our opinions KeithL. In Turkey he maybe a "National hereo". However, in other countries you may get a different opinion. I still think you have missed my point regarding "insulting". hmmm Just interested TC, what is this "different opinion". Seems he's pretty much a hero in most countires that I know of

Quoting KeithL:

Quoting teaschip1: Quoting aenigma x: Quoting teaschip1: Like I said we all have our opinions KeithL. In Turkey he maybe a "National hereo". However, in other countries you may get a different opinion. I still think you have missed my point regarding "insulting". hmmm Just interested TC, what is this "different opinion". Seems he's pretty much a hero in most countires that I know of Well let's see, I just asked a few professionals here at work. Sorry, no one even knew who he was. But heck that could just be an American self indulgent thing. You know we are only taught American History in our schools. So closed minded are we Americans.

Quoting KeithL:

I don't hide that I lived in America 20 years. I love America. But I am also embarassed by how often Americans think that America is the center of all existence on this planet.

Quoting KeithL:

but just to clarify, if a group of a few Americans are not aware of someone's existence, they couldn't possible be important....

Quoting teaschip1:

Quoting KeithL:

but just to clarify, if a group of a few Americans are not aware of someone's existence, they couldn't possible be important....

Quoting KeithL:

but just to clarify, if a group of a few Americans are not aware of someone's existence, they couldn't possible be important....

Quoting femme_fatal:

so one of our main don juans was deleted from TC because of insulting ataturk?
does then TC function as per the turkish laws in turkey?

Quoting KeithL:

Quoting libralady:

Quoting libralady:

Quoting aenigma x:

Ouh hell! Lucky I only said good things then Turkey will let me come back!

Quoting femme_fatal:

so one of our main don juans was deleted from TC because of insulting ataturk?
does then TC function as per the turkish laws in turkey?

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting mltm:

I think there's no need to discuss this issue more. Yusuf asked why he was banned, and we explained him the reason. If you read the forum rules, insulting Atatürk is a reason for banning. Atatürk is one of the major values of turkish people, if you are not sure why he is, you can make a search on the net, there are many sources about him .

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting aenigma x: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting aenigma x: Ouh hell! Lucky I only said good things then Turkey will let me come back! hahaha this is good! blessed be you are for flattering! Heyyyyyyyy! I am the LAST person here to flatter!!! I just dont have any problem with Ataturk! Watch it foamy!

Quoting armegon:

Quoting armegon:

Do you know anything about respect to others, your family teached something about respect and moral?

Quoting mltm:

I think there's no need to discuss this issue more. Yusuf asked why he was banned, and we explained him the reason. If you read the forum rules, insulting Atatürk is a reason for banning. Atatürk is one of the major values of turkish people, if you are not sure why he is, you can make a search on the net, there are many sources about him .

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting aenigma x: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting aenigma x: Ouh hell! Lucky I only said good things then Turkey will let me come back! hahaha this is good! blessed be you are for flattering! Heyyyyyyyy! I am the LAST person here to flatter!!! I just dont have any problem with Ataturk! Watch it foamy!

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting mltm: I think there's no need to discuss this issue more. Yusuf asked why he was banned, and we explained him the reason. If you read the forum rules, insulting Atatürk is a reason for banning. Atatürk is one of the major values of turkish people, if you are not sure why he is, you can make a search on the net, there are many sources about him . mltm i finally agree with you at least for once.

Quoting KeithL:

and whom does she flatter???

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting KeithL:

and who does she flatter???

Quoting KeithL:

Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting KeithL: and whom does she flatter??? hehehe

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting KeithL: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting KeithL: and whom does she flatter??? hehehe OK...too nosey.

Quoting aenigma x:

Femme stop eating so much sugar And...for the last time...I DONT FLATTER!!!! I just tell what i think - if you dont agree then....ummm...you will have to leave the "gang of three"

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting teaschip1:

However, when you give someone the title of "National Hero" that indicates he was a hero not only in Turkey but to the whole nation.

Quoting teaschip1:

I to the whole nation. ....

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting femme_fatal:

are there international heros?

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting femme_fatal:

you forgot to add the US president in the movies "airforce one", "independence day"

Quoting teaschip1:

Well, when I think of a nation, I think of one nation under God. My mistake! As for international hereos, I think we maybe in the presence of a few here in Turkish Class.

Quoting teaschip1:

Well, when I think of a nation, I think of one nation under God. My mistake! As for international hereos, I think we maybe in the presence of a few here in Turkish Class.

Quoting teaschip1:

Yes, at least that's what I believe. Oh no, don't get me started on religon............WBB

Quoting teaschip1:

Well, when I think of a nation, I think of one nation under God.

Quoting aenigma x:

You are offending my agnostic beliefs!!!!! Moddddddddds delete this post! :

Quoting teaschip1:

Well, when I think of a nation, I think of one nation under God. My mistake! As for international hereos, I think we maybe in the presence of a few here in Turkish Class.

Quoting KeithL:

Thank you, other than my modesty, my international heroism is my best quality!!!

Quoting teaschip1:

Well, when I think of a nation, I think of one nation under God. My mistake! As for international hereos, I think we maybe in the presence of a few here in Turkish Class.

Quoting libralady:

and Aenigma, in your International Heroes list, how come no women in these times of sexual equality, I suggest either:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quote:

Quote: Quoting femme_fatal: International heroines? Hmmmmmm Femme-Fatal

Quoting vineyards:

teaschip I can't decide whether to take you seriously or not. You have a problem with the basic meanings of certain concepts:

1- This country fought a war of independence under the leadership of K. Ataturk.
2- Turkish republic was founded by Ataturk.
3- You or your fellow employees don't have to know him and I don't care a bit whether they do or not.
4- Read the comments made by Churchill, Lord Kinross etc to understand how they regarded him in the UK.
5- Alternatively, do not give a ... about it and mind your own business. Ataturk is our hero and we are proud of him.
6- Eat a lot of fish and walnuts.

Quote:

Quoting vineyards:

Was that answer for Grapevine or for Vineyards, or is there no difference at all after a few bottles of wine in the vineyard. Checkout a youtube link to see what happens when you tease a lion. Everyone does not take jokes the same way. Especially if you are hitting the wrong note for that person on an on you may end up with some bitterness.

I am in favour of both punishment and reward when either of them is due. This is the way to put an end to the freedom of arbitrarily categorizing people into nations, races, religions and cultural identities and pushing your version of truth at the expense of theirs. When people show a superficial interest in another culture and when that interest suddenly ends when they find out that they regard things differently ; we cannot talk about a geniune appreciation or fondness of the culture in question. If people are happy with their ways and cannot quite understand other cultures, they cannot possibly be considered as broadminded individuals having decent educations. In this world, there are Lincolns, Churchills, Stalins, Lenins and Ataturks. For example, you may not like Lenin all that much but then you may be lacking the knowledge as to how he was viewed by his contemporaries.

You should also understand our frustration over the cultural besiege of the US. We live in a world in which US soldiers spit on the holy book of billions of people, invade their countries and talk about order and civilization. It may be easier for you to tolerate this but for my own part, that is possibly the worst thing that could happen to our world politically. So, it is a time, everyone should hold on to their own values. We don't wish to have one big America all around the world. We would like to remain as Turks and be appreciated, understood and liked as we are. (I am not referring to those archaic traditions limiting the basic rights of men and women.)


Of course, majority of my remarks here does not exclusively concern you.

Quoting vineyards:

Teaschip let me "streamline" the sentence you seem to have completely misunderstood.

For example, being a UK citizen, if you think the UK is the best country in the world and all the others suck (there are some US and Turkish citizens doing that for their own countries), if your attachment to your country's ways, values, perspective is more like an obsession (like Arabs being obsessive to everything Islamic) then you can't call yourself broadminded or educated.

If you continue to misunderstand my obvious statements like this, we should consider switching to some other language.

Quoting aenigma x:

Vineyards and Teaship1, you don't actually seem to be arguing about anything "concrete" anymore.

Is this genuine antipathy between you, or...sexual tension?

Quoting teaschip1:

Sexual tension I can assure you aenigma x, I don't have.
I think maybe I need a drink or two.

Quoting femme_fatal:

insulting ataturk is the reason to ban?

Quoting AEnigma III:

Bod are you still a Mod?

Quoting AEnigma III:

Welcome back ModBod