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Turkish girls!!!
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390.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 12:21 am

Yes that's what I wonder too..

But I think Turkish population is more in denial than the population of UK and Holland. We even have a gay-monument And I believe there to come a Gay-day too. Maybe these go a bit too far, as there isnt a Straight-day (well actually, starting Gay-day seems to make all the other days Straight ) and there is no need to be any of such days anyhow.

391.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 12:27 am

I must confess to being a bit prejudice actually While I am happy to be in the company of gays, I feel very uncomfortable in the company of lesbians !!!!!

I know its wrong, but I can't help it. I guess its an insult to them to assume they will make a move on me, and I wish I didn't feel this way!! lol lol lol

392.       vineyards
1954 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 12:28 am

Congratulations on having a gay day and a gay monument. We have a feast of sacrifice which is meant to help people to become more sacrificing towards the needy. Having a whole feast for that purpose doesn't help people to become more sacrificing nor does it ease the gap among income groups.

I don't agree with you about Turkish gays being more secresive. I've noticed European/American males are afraid of touching one another. You'd often see two males walking hand in hand in Turkey although they are not gays at all.

393.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 12:29 am

Quoting AEnigma III:

I must confess to being a bit prejudice actually While I am happy to be in the company of gays, I feel very uncomfortable in the company of lesbians !!!!!

I know its wrong, but I can't help it. I guess its an insult to them to assume they will make a move on me, and I wish I didn't feel this way!! lol lol lol



Hehe. Well two of my best friends are gay and lesbian so I guess I have gotten used to it. Did feel uncomfrotable though when we decided to go out to a gay-bar for once, but must say it was awesome

394.       alameda
3499 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 02:22 am

AEnigma said: "Alameda you seem to have big issues with "sex". Like it or not, ALL living creatures have a huge compulsion to reproduce. You can make laws, you can create religious rules, but a living creature's desire to multiply will always find a way! It is the most basic of "wills" given to all creatures - especially as soon as they reach sexual maturity, and is about survival of the species."

I will ignore your first comment, as it is inappropriate and under the belt, so to speak. I'm attempting not to personalize any discussion I become involved in. Any comment I make is based on a knowledge of both cultures. Of course all creatures compulsion to multiply is one of the strongest forces. However, we are not simple animals. and we have healthy methods to dealing with these issues, as well as those that are not healthy.

AEnigma said: "We live by our social rules and say we are not animals, but you will NEVER be able to stop some people from acting on nature's strongest will . We are living unnaturally for our bodies (which should be producing children at a much earlier age). "

That is a good point. In the "West" childbearing has been put off for a ridiculous amount of time. Women are urged to get a career, which ignores her basic biological make up. The current career model is one that evolved for men, not women. Maybe we need to reevaluate the whole thing and come up with a model that allows women to bear children at a time when they are biologically most ready.

I know Turkish couples who married while they were both in school. The women have continued their education, and the husbands are fully supportive in all domestic areas.

As for the back door issue, it's tragic anyone would feel so much pressure to indulge in such highly dangerous and risky practices. I would question WHY these young women feel they have to keep up with "Modern Western Women" in the first place.

I have seen many Eastern men with their Western girlfriends, the men don't go out with the "Eastern" women, because they don't want to destroy the purity, but they feel have "needs" to satisfy. Of course this is absurd. No man who is not himself a virgin has the right to expect his wife to be a virgin. However that is too often ignored .""Women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity "(Quran 24:26)

Given the closeness of Turkish society, by that I mean the watchfulness, I seriously doubt if many of the young ladies who indulged in such practices would be able to easily pass themselves off as "virgin". Certainly the health risks are serious, and for what? The whole thing is tragic, but I seriously doubt it is that wide a practice.

There is no way to really determine virginity other than a medical examination. Many young ladies lives have been ruined by unreasonable demands and unreliable proofs (all virgins do not bleed). I do wish that would change, and I think it is now.

AEnigma said: 'It is not about being sex crazed, its about trying to "civilize" a fundamental urge!!!"

On that we are in agreement. But then let us remember we are humans, or at least trying to be. "Humans can be the highest of the high or the lowest of the low." We have higher brain parts, not just the reptile brain. I'm afraid many function more in the reptilian brain than the higher brain.
reptile brain

One thing that I find interesting here is the how Westerners seem to like to talk about all sorts of things that people in the East are discreet about. I think it's a throwback on the confessional and the desire for absolution. In the East that tradition does not exist and it is a private matter. To expose anyones less than desirable attributes is in itself a shameful practice.

If someone has told you things in confidence, who are you to blab it all over the Internet? To talk like this about Turkish girls (and in fact this conversation has now encompassed all Muslim girls) just makes it more difficult for them. it causes suspicion and more restraints on their ability to go to college away from the protection of their families.

395.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 02:37 am

Quoting alameda:

One thing that I find interesting here is the how Westerners seem to like to talk about all sorts of things that people in the East are discreet about.... If someone has told you things in confidence, who are you to blab it all over the Internet? To talk like this about Turkish girls (and in fact this conversation has now encompassed all Muslim girls) just makes it more difficult for them. it causes suspicion and more restraints on their ability to go to college away from the protection of their families.



Well nothing has been told in confidence - it was posted here by Turkish men and women Frankly I think it is very healthy to talk about "taboo" subjects.

We had such a society until recently - it hid all manner of crimes - paedophillia, marital rape, violence....do you want to go back to a society which hides such things "within the family"???

Anyway, thanks for your comprehensive reply
Iyi geceler

396.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 02:41 am

Quoting alameda:

I will ignore your first comment, as it is inappropriate and under the belt, so to speak. I'm attempting not to personalize any discussion I become involved in. Any comment I make is based on a knowledge of both cultures.



Really? So how come you felt it necessary to label women here as promiscuous and having no morals? Do you know anything about these women, or even how many partners they may or may not have had? Don't you think you were just jumping on the eastern bandwagon?

397.       alameda
3499 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 04:40 am

Quoting AEnigma III:

Really? So how come you felt it necessary to label women here as promiscuous and having no morals? Do you know anything about these women, or even how many partners they may or may not have had? Don't you think you were just jumping on the eastern bandwagon?



AEnigma, I didn't label anyone here as immoral or promiscuous. I would call them unwise. However, I would call one night stands a dangerous and promiscuous activity. I was commenting on those who volunteered their information.

No culture condones such activity. Some are more strict about it than others. In the West there has in the last 40 years been a revolution in the sexual expectations and activity of women. I just question it.

The rise in STDs and one parent homes is not healthy and in fact is alarming, don't you think?

Eros in a Narcissistic Culture

398.       alameda
3499 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 04:45 am

Quoting AEnigma III:

Well nothing has been told in confidence - it was posted here by Turkish men and women Frankly I think it is very healthy to talk about "taboo" subjects.

We had such a society until recently - it hid all manner of crimes - paedophillia, marital rape, violence....do you want to go back to a society which hides such things "within the family"???



Actually I believe there was only one Turkish man who posted in this, (not too complimentary of Western women by the way) I didn't see any Turkish women in the thread who supported the sex before marriage theme. It was Western women reporting what they heard.

....on this forum it seems I'm the one talking about the taboo subjects. How dare I question the wise Western women who live together with men and have casual sex!

Regarding spousal abuse, paedophillia and other crimes which are universally recognized crimes (and illegal in Turkey) of course they should be stopped. You are changing the subject. We were discussing sexual indiscretion.

399.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 10:39 am

Quoting alameda:

Actually I believe there was only one Turkish man who posted in this, (not too complimentary of Western women by the way) I didn't see any Turkish women in the thread who supported the sex before marriage theme. It was Western women reporting what they heard.

....on this forum it seems I'm the one talking about the taboo subjects. How dare I question the wise Western women who live together with men and have casual sex!

Regarding spousal abuse, paedophillia and other crimes which are universally recognized crimes (and illegal in Turkey) of course they should be stopped. You are changing the subject. We were discussing sexual indiscretion.



Alameda, I was referring to the thread around 18 months ago (I mentioned in a previous post) where Turkish men and women discussed this subject.

Again you make presumptions and use sarcastic terms for "wise" western women. How does living together equate casual sex? Such a partnership is often equally (sometimes more) loyal and faithfull than marriage.

Spousal/child abuse, paedophillia and domestic violent crimes are NOT changing the subject. They are only controlled by changing the culture that insists on keeping quiet about sexual matters.

400.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 18 Nov 2007 Sun 10:44 am

Quoting alameda:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Really? So how come you felt it necessary to label women here as promiscuous and having no morals? Do you know anything about these women, or even how many partners they may or may not have had? Don't you think you were just jumping on the eastern bandwagon?



AEnigma, I didn't label anyone here as immoral or promiscuous. I would call them unwise. However, I would call one night stands a dangerous and promiscuous activity. I was commenting on those who volunteered their information.

No culture condones such activity. Some are more strict about it than others. In the West there has in the last 40 years been a revolution in the sexual expectations and activity of women. I just question it.

The rise in STDs and one parent homes is not healthy and in fact is alarming, don't you think?

Eros in a Narcissistic Culture



Actually Alameda you DID label women here with those names. Please remember that they are only "unwise" by your personal religious or cultural standards.

YET AGAIN you are confusing people who choose not to marry with promiscuity. I dont believe anyone was advocating promiscuity and I agree that the rise in STDs is alarming. You should really try not to judge and assume. If you disagree with sex outside marriage, then that is your opinion, but you have no right to make disparaging comments about people who may not agree with you.

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