Quoting AlphaF:

Beware though! Fierce moustache comes with the package

Quoting SuiGeneris:

I read today that Turkish Army is on the way to be professionalized... professional commandos

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting SuiGeneris: I read today that Turkish Army is on the way to be professionalized... professional commandos That is good news....isn't it?

Quoting caliptrix:

I think so.

On the other hand, because many of the new soldiers who are just private are sent to the terrorism areas even though there are much more experienced soldiers. Then, they are killed because of nonexperience. If army will send less experienced soldiers, why do the high-level soldiers exist?

Quoting AEnigma III:

There was an experimental TV show a year or so ago called Boot Camp where the worst offenders were sent off to a military camp. They bucked and screamed their way through the first few weeks, but gradually gained self-respect (and respect for others) and came out of the camp completely changed, responsible HUMANS!

Quoting caliptrix:

On the other hand, because many of the new soldiers who are just private are sent to the terrorism areas even though there are much more experienced soldiers. Then, they are killed because of nonexperience. If army will send less experienced soldiers, why do the high-level soldiers exist?

Quoting caliptrix:

I am sure every single turkish boy is ready to give his life for Turkey. I have no doubt about this. But that applications are strange.

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Do not search for a logic in this situation please...

Its just related to morals and feelings...If you want to do whatever you duty you get willingly and with a love... you can be greatest soldier in your life in that 3 months...

First of all, you are not going to die there, this is what you have to do for being Turkish Citizen, there is another option, you can quit your being citizen if you dont want to do that, nobody forces you for that... if you are supposed to go, you will go...

Quoting azade:

I know. The turkish army is very unlogic :-S

And you do know that it's currently 15 months, right? Not three.

Soldiers DO die there. I don't know which way is worse - by the hand of terrorists or themselves...

Quoting AEnigma III:

The thing is Sui, have you actually done military service? The reason I ask is that I notice a big difference from the patriotic posts of those who have not, and the less glorified posts of those who have

Quoting SuiGeneris:

The duration of military is 15 monthes yes, but at the first 3 monthes you get basic trainings, then you get specialized on their branches...

Who dies there come on? I have lots of friends now and no one says its bad... all of the says i am fine! All of them... nationalists, jews, left wing supporters...
Why?

To die? Thats the fact of life... by a bullet or traffic accident...or by earthquake... you can never know about this...

If you think you go there to die... you have problems...

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Though i didnt do the military service... I have lived there 2 years, when the region was very hot between 94-96... it was even worse than serving military service... to look at the door and waiting for father... and thinking what will happen while walking in the streets... anyway it passed... i am glad i lived there... that will pass aswell...

Quoting azade:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Quoting azade:

Three months does hardly make you a pro in the army where minor mistakes can be the difference between life and death. Even though you are trained in something specific does not mean that's the post you will be assigned to for the 12 months remaining.

Well just because none your friends lost their lives in the army doesn't mean loads of others haven't. I'm sure you will know if you remember what happened in October. Being the most recent "big" event. Soldiers also commit suicide but that's not talked of in the media of course. Very hush hush, them being cowards and all...

Yes everyone dies at one point, that's what we are born to do, but there is are different ways! Did you read what I said on being careless with peoples lives?

It's all very dandy when you see the twisted picture in the media but a different matter when you are there yourself. Would you like to be trained as sihhiye (not learning how to shoot properly) and then go to şirnak (perhaps with a 50 year malfunctioning fire arm) for example? Think you would also change your opinion then.

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Not only privates die...

Watch this video...This commander just keeps the bomb inside his hands and it blows in his hands... he loses his hands for the privates under his command... Thats the mentality i talk about... and he says i didnt make anything great... it was my responsibilty to save them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LAi3i-X49o


And my friends are still serving their military service...

Quoting azade:

Yes of course once you are in the army you have to go through with it, mind you I was only following your trail of thought.

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Quoting azade:

Bak abi!

I know there has been some very hard times, I'm not trying to take that away from you. What I am saying is that you will probably go through a very hard time again when eventually it's your time to serve. At least when you are out in the real world you have a chance to go away from it, if that's what you want to but in the army you will have to stand in front line and accept the bullets. Kusura kalmayın but that's the truth.
If you are feeling so strongly about it why didn't you do it when you were 20, if I may ask?

(Never in my life have I played with dolls by the way )

Quote:

Look girl!

Quote:

Bak abi!

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Because i am studying dear... after finishing university... when my time comes... i will do that aswell... like my friends are doing... and i am here because i didnt afraid to have what i had to face...

And why dont you really want to see that... Turkey is not ready for a professional army... its getting slowly by slowly maybe... But its not ready yet... he has so many uneducated and unaware of the reality of his/her own country...

Quoting bodrumgirl:

My boyfriend is currently serving his military service

Quoting AlphaF:

Nobody is treated like sh*t in the Turkish Army, unless he is real sh*t.
You tell him that; he will understand.

Quoting thehandsom:

Almost, every new comer is treated like sh*t in the army (almost in every armies though!)

Quoting thehandsom:

Almost, every new comer is treated like sh*t in the army (almost in every armies though!)

Quoting azade:

Alpha why don't you join the army again? I'm sure those wussies could learn a lot about being a man from you..

Quoting thehandsom:

Almost, every new comer is treated like sh*t in the army (almost in every armies though!)

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting azade:

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting AlphaF:

let us sing the NATIONAL ANTHEM in peace?!

Quoting azade:

Why don't you open your eyes to what's going on instead of dodging and changing the subject?

Quoting AlphaF:

azade, if you believe the god I believe - you should know that those who fall fighting for their country need nothing from any of us...they can not be in a better place.

Quoting AlphaF:

I sounded like Julius Caezar.

Quoting AEnigma III:

This is always a worrying thing that religious people say. It promotes the idea that life is not precious because you have something much better awaiting you and there is big reward for dying for your particular "cause".

Quoting azade:

Well I'm muslim but I believe that one should not throw their life away for something they don't believe in.
Fighting for one's homeland is a great and admireable deed, but there should be pure intentions behind it and no one should be forced to do it.
If everyone (men and women) had the choice of joining the army you would get loads of great soldiers who would defend their homeland much better than twice the amount of drafted soldiers. If you don't want to completely throw away the concept of mandatory army service then give them a choice to do something else, there's loads of things they could do for the community instead.

On the thought of helping families of young martyrs, don't you think the families would be more proud than bitter if they knew their sons (or daughters) did it because it was something they believed in?

Quoting AlphaF:

In islam there are two kinds of sins...those committed against Allah himself..diobedience to or negligence of his orders...and those comitted againt persons ie, cheating a love stricken lady of her laptop, pretending to love her.

If you are a moslem and you die fighting in protecion of your fatherland or religion all sins committed against Allah himself are written off. You still have to pay for the laptop.

The above is a simplified version.

Quoting AEnigma III:

Hmmmm I wonder if you could clarify something then. Do they ALL go to 'paradise' if they do something in the name of Allah? I am thinking about terrorists now.

For example, if someone came and set off a suicide bomb in your home, killing all your family, in the name of Allah and was quite convinced he was right, you would be happy that he would go to eternal paradise because he is a muslim?

Quoting azade:

On the thought of helping families of young martyrs, don't you think the families would be more proud than bitter if they knew their sons (or daughters) did it because it was something they believed in?

Quoting AlphaF:

Well....we shall see that up there...

Quoting azade:

Murder is one of the greatest sins.
Brainwashing is a major tool in recruitment of suicide terrorists. They are easy to mess with because they usually come from poverty and has little or no sense of reality.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AlphaF:

Islam is very simple and very nice.

For example, you and I can practically guarantee a place in heaven eternally - only if I could persuade you to convert (sincerely) to Islam.

Quoting azade:

No no this was not about religion.
I'm thinking of the young soldiers forced to risk their lives in the army. When one of those dies their family will have a lot of anger and hatred towards the army/government and will have a real hard time moving on and lead normal lives.
While if those who die accepted that it is a risk and CHOSE to be soldiers (because of their love for the homeland - I'm talking about the turkish army here, not terrorists), their family could be more at peace with it and get on with their lives at some point after processing the loss.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting azade:

Quoting catwoman: Quoting azade: Murder is one of the greatest sins. Brainwashing is a major tool in recruitment of suicide terrorists. They are easy to mess with because they usually come from poverty and has little or no sense of reality. Yes, but what's REALLY interesting is that other muslims, who are NOT stricken with poverty, don't protest against this sort of behavior (I assume that there are enough of them to make SOME sort of movement!), some even openly support terrorists or become ones. Where does that come from?

Quoting AlphaF:

There is too much impolite noise in here !

Quoting AlphaF:

they can not be in a better place.

Quoting AlphaF:

Exactly...must be a better place, nobody comes back !

Quoting AlphaF:

Exactly...must be a better place, nobody comes back !

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AlphaF:

Azade,
Some people die for what they believe in, some poeple die on duty...if you duty at the time happens to be associated with defense of your country and/or religion...you get a prize.

What is wrong with that?

Quoting MrX67:

nationality,races,beliefs are all so innocent diversities in main,but all em can be most dangerous weapons when used by dirty minds.History full with this wars,and pity in this science age still some of people at the negative side of this unvolitional terms.To be patriot sure virtuous but when it turned as a fanaticism so easy to be a toy for who feding with innocents' bloods..

Quoting christine:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Hmmmm I wonder if you could clarify something then. Do they ALL go to 'paradise' if they do something in the name of Allah? I am thinking about terrorists now.

For example, if someone came and set off a suicide bomb in your home, killing all your family, in the name of Allah and was quite convinced he was right, you would be happy that he would go to eternal paradise because he is a muslim?

Quoting peace train:

Quoting peace train:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Is it? Strange I never asked that question before. Are you planning to quote all my posts now peace train and comment? It is very tiring to have both Catwoman and you doing this constantly, but I suppose that is your fun.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Always ridiculed? Ermmmmm I think you should look to your own posts before commenting on MINE Catwoman.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AEnigma III:

That is because I have not ridiculed you Catwoman - or had you failed to notice it?

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting AEnigma III:

You think I am bullying Peace Train or Libralady maybe? I only bite back - I never begin it Or had you not noticed that either?

Quoting AEnigma III:

Luckily you have Catwoman on a personal vendetta to defend you

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Make that Catwoman and peace train tea party.

Quoting AEnigma III:

Is this some new nasty innuendo you have come up with - are your ageist comments about him not enough?

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Aenigma III vs. Peace Train and Catwoman

Quoting catwoman:

I'm just not getting YOUR innuendo about me, peace train and some kind of vandetta.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Cat! go fight now! and get %10 from the total profit of the bets!!

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Pfff!!! you were always like this when you were younger!! always complain always complain!!

ok how about %15?

Quoting catwoman:

You know me when I was younger??? Who the hell are you!!!

95%, otherwise, forget about it.

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Greedy!! i am not playing with you anymore!! and the fight is over... you started to love eachother again!!

i have to find some other opponents unfortunately!!

Quoting catwoman:

But yes, we love each other again... fight is called off!

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting catwoman:

you compare me with a dudu????

Quoting peace train:

Phew! Fight called off. I've been with 5 year olds far too long. I wanna go to re-hab and I say yeah, yeah , yeah, yeah, yeah.

I waft the white flag and plant it firmly next to my PC as a reminder not to get involved in extreme sports.

How much is a trip down the Bosphorous these days?

Quoting Deli_kizin:

I better run before you ask me for a laptop

Quoting SuiGeneris:

Is it where you take your name from?

Peace Train

Quoting AlphaF:

Well...almost perfect !

Quoting bodrumgirl:

Hi Azade, he went in end of August so will finish in November if he takes holiday or october if he dont. He wants to try to not take any holiday.

I know when i asked about it on the phone he said not to think about it as this has been going on for ages but well.......i cant help it I just want him out of there so that we can get on with our lives!!

thanks!!

Quoting azade:

Quoting thehandsom:

It is a completely waste of time I am afraid.
He will be talking about his memories for next couple of years (in some severe cases, he might be even talking about it his entire life )
But the good thing is, he will be compliant for a while, he wont go out without telling you or he will be telling you what he will do and when he will be back etc..

Quoting bodrumgirl:

Hi Azade, did your husband do the full 15 months??

People say it goes fast , but it sure as hell dont for me.....i have to say!! I guess being together the year leading up to him going in made it all the harder.....always together and then nothing.....!!

Congratulations on making it through yours though!!! wow bet your so excited to be getting him back so soon!!

I am lucky that we get to speak most days on the phone, but he hasnt been given a day off for 5 weeks now so I miss seeing him on MSN.........but then again thats hard coz the minute hes gone i miss him more than ever again!! No pleasing me really...! Just want him out and done with it. Hated having that cloud always hanging over us so in one way its good its all underway...at least when he comes out we can continue to make our plans for the future!!

Take care

Quoting azade:

Quoting azade:

I think most (if not all) soldiers after finishing duty should have the offer of a session with a psychologist if they have been stationed in areas where they have seen a lot of death. It's not a problem for all, but for some. From Denmark I know that a lot of the soldiers who came back with repressed memories that were unattended and it has caused problems for many of them in terms of adjusting to normal society again.

Quoting thehandsom:

And about the sessions with a psychologist, I dont think it will be necessary. He will just go to kahvehanes and will find many of his friends in the same situation; they will talk about their memories on and on. And then ex soldiers will join; they will say 'Turkia is great. Thanks to you we slept in peace. When it comes to the fatherland blah blah etc'.
It is a kind of group therapy (we dont offer psychologists to our soldiers, but you cant offer that kind of group therapy either in your country)

Quoting bodrumgirl:

ohhhhh i wish you both every happiness for the future. This is going to be an amazing year for you both. Just enjoy every moment that you are together!!

yes i try to cut it into segments too...... getting into this year was good as at least hes coming back THIS year now.........im back in the Uk at the moment to sort out some things but will be back there as soon as I can. I will go to visit him, but as I say he hasnt had a day off for weeks......should be saturdays but when they do control they always manage to find something wrong somewhere and so the whole lot of them get free days cancelled!!

Good luck to you both!!
nice to meet you !

Quoting bodrumgirl:

Hi Alpha,

He understands perfectly what is expected of him during his military service . I am sure he makes a good soldier . He is a very hardworker and puts 100% into anything he takes on so I have no doubt about that!!

Do you think they will cut the time of service?? Would you expect that to be 12 months????

Quoting azade:

Quoting azade:

Well I'm muslim but I believe that one should not throw their life away for something they don't believe in.
Fighting for one's homeland is a great and admireable deed, but there should be pure intentions behind it and no one should be forced to do it.
If everyone (men and women) had the choice of joining the army you would get loads of great soldiers who would defend their homeland much better than twice the amount of drafted soldiers. If you don't want to completely throw away the concept of mandatory army service then give them a choice to do something else, there's loads of things they could do for the community instead.

On the thought of helping families of young martyrs, don't you think the families would be more proud than bitter if they knew their sons (or daughters) did it because it was something they believed in?

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting azade: Quoting thehandsom: It is a completely waste of time I am afraid. He will be talking about his memories for next couple of years (in some severe cases, he might be even talking about it his entire life ) But the good thing is, he will be compliant for a while, he wont go out without telling you or he will be telling you what he will do and when he will be back etc.. Haha you are right. Although I did promise him I would make him forget he was ever there..any suggestions? I think most (if not all) soldiers after finishing duty should have the offer of a session with a psychologist if they have been stationed in areas where they have seen a lot of death. It's not a problem for all, but for some. From Denmark I know that a lot of the soldiers who came back with repressed memories that were unattended and it has caused problems for many of them in terms of adjusting to normal society again.

Quoting AlphaF:

Azade,

Now that Tea sides with you....you can be sure you are wrong.
She never got one thing straight, in her life.

Quoting AlphaF:

I am not Getaway....I heard the rumor, but sorry to diappoint you !

You missed again !

Quoting AlphaF:

Who killed this lettuce, in the salad?

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AlphaF:

Quoting catwoman: Quoting AlphaF: Who killed this lettuce, in the salad? Are you comparing lettuce to people???? You are indeed a psycho.

Quoting AlphaF:

Tea,
You only talk because you think you have to say something, no? Not really because you think you have something to say !

Quoting bodrumgirl:

Hi Azade, he went in end of August so will finish in November if he takes holiday or october if he dont. He wants to try to not take any holiday.

I know when i asked about it on the phone he said not to think about it as this has been going on for ages but well.......i cant help it I just want him out of there so that we can get on with our lives!!

thanks!!

Quoting SERA_2005:

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting AlphaF:

There is a great difference between Turkish and Danish Armies. If you want to be really popular in Denmark, ask your pretty Danish friends how the Danish Army deserted their posts and the Bosnians entrusted to their honor and protection, in Bosnia. Do you know how many moslem Bosnians (civilians) were killed, when guarding Danish soldiers ran away in broad daylight? Did Danish papers write this story?

They can possibly keep chockies in their lockers and are free to grow their hair, but dont ask me how they keep their heads up, without a spine.

Denmark should have been dishonorably kicked out from NATO !

How is this for laughs, if you are a real moslem and a real humanist?

Quoting teaschip1:

I agree Azade..[...]

Quoting azade:

I'm anti-nationalist and I don't have (m)any pretty friends in Denmark left because they were racists who could not accept my choice.

Quoting catwoman:

My question is: how do you feel about your bf/husband being now a trained killer? - someone who learnt how to kill people...

Quoting SERA_2005:

Anyway back to the topic, I am in your situation too Bodrum girl and extremely jealous of Azade!!I wish i only had a few weeks left to wait.However sadly this is not the case,i have about 7 months left although i suppose that means 8 months have passed and thats good.Azade is right you do kind of get used to it.But yes the first couple of months are the worse and i am guessing that the last month will also be hard, counting the days but at least that way there is something to look forward to.Role on summer thats all i have to say!

Quoting bodrumgirl:

HI Sera........so you will be hoping for the early release too then!!! well we are 5 months into ours, so still got a long way to go........times dragging but im lucky that i get phone calls most days. It helps but nothing like the real thing!!

A friend of ours is still having to go for help as he suffers night terrors having seen a soldier friend shot in the head..........2 years down the line..!!

Quoting azade:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting azade:

Oh they used to be very nice and I thought they still were until I started seeing a TURK, KURD, MUSLIM, PERSON FROM DIFFERENT CULTURE - whatever the excuse is. Well most people are probably nice but we've had too many bad experiences so I started seeing red and now I don't really want to live there at all.
It has everything to do with the problems with immigrants, I'm sure of that.

Quoting azade:

..........Oh they used to be very nice and I thought they still were until I started seeing a TURK, KURD, MUSLIM, PERSON FROM DIFFERENT CULTURE - whatever the excuse is. Well most people are probably nice but we've had too many bad experiences so I started seeing red and now I don't really want to live there at all.
It has everything to do with the problems with immigrants, I'm sure of that.

Quoting alameda:

Didn't your Queen Margrethe II, say: "We are being challenged by Islam these years. Globally as well as locally. There is something impressive about people for whom religion imbues their existence, from dusk to dawn, from cradle to grave. There are also Christians who feel this way. There is something endearing about people who give themselves up completely to their faith. But there is likewise something frightening about such a totality, which also is a feature of Islam. A counterbalance has to be found, and one has to, at times, run the risk of having unflattering labels placed on you. For there are some things for which one should display no tolerance. And when we are tolerant, we must know whether it is because of convenience or conviction."

That is not the type of statement that seems to do much to foster harmony and acceptance.

Quoting catwoman:

........On the contrary, this is a very balanced and reasonable statement. People who cannot understand and appreciate it are intolerant themselves.

Quoting AlphaF:

Your family are chips?

Quoting AlphaF:

That is how your sentence reads...

However, I was sure it was an error...Just wanted to make sure

Quoting AlphaF:

That is how your sentence reads...

Quoting azade:

(Deli_kizin you're right I do tend to modify my posts, maybe that's why I have only just recently reached 1000 posts ) But I didn't modify this one at any rate

Quoting azade:

Anyway I just go there for my family, the delicious chips (crisps ) and a few other goods

Quoting AlphaF:

Your family are chips?

Quoting AEnigma III:

Dont get angry

Quoting Deli_kizin:

How could anybody be angry with YOU

Quoting AEnigma III:

completely

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Of course - and I love your sarcasm!!!

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Hehehe ok Actually I modify lots too, when I read it again I always find a 1000 grammar or spelling mistakes. Its horrible!!

Quoting azade:

Oh they used to be very nice and I thought they still were until I started seeing a TURK, KURD, MUSLIM, PERSON FROM DIFFERENT CULTURE - whatever the excuse is. Well most people are probably nice but we've had too many bad experiences so I started seeing red and now I don't really want to live there at all.
It has everything to do with the problems with immigrants, I'm sure of that.

Quoting azade:

Who would refer to their family as delicious chips anyway

(Deli_kizin you're right I do tend to modify my posts, maybe that's why I have only just recently reached 1000 posts ) But I didn't modify this one at any rate

Quoting alameda:

Well I guess when the The Evangelical Lutheran State Church of Denmark is the official church of the state, that tells you something.

"The Danish National Church, Church of Denmark or Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark...............

"As head of the National Church, the monarch must belong to the same (article 6 of the Constitution). This applies to the whole royal house as well. As a result, the Prince Consort Henrik converted from Catholicism before marrying the Queen in 1968, and Mary Donaldson "converted" from Anglicanism before marrying Crown Prince Frederik in 2004."

Danish National Church

So much for tolerance....hmmm?

...but as this converstation is getting close to the edge I will not comment more....however...but as this is an official policy, it is interesting to note.

Quoting thehandsom:

This sounds not very nice at all..
At least in the UK, specially, in big cities people are more tolerant and at least they would not say anything to your face straight away. They are kind of polite.
And more over, when you go up in the class system , they seem to be more polite..

Quoting azade:

Maybe if we actually had any big cities in Denmark things would improve

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting Roswitha:

Quoting azade:

Maybe if we actually had any big cities in Denmark things would improve


catwoman:
You completely ruined my good view of Denmark I actually love little towns...




http://www.dengamleby.dk:80/english.htm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting AEnigma III: completely EVEN with the underlying 'sweet sarcasm'??

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting AEnigma III: completely EVEN with the underlying 'sweet sarcasm'?? Of course - and I love your sarcasm!!!