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4060.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:18 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

for once, I have to agree with you. Big smile

 

in fact according to Muazzez Ilmiye Cig who is one of the few sumerian experts around the world, burka was the traditional dress code of Sumerian prostitutes while Arabs didn`t have such an outfit at the time.

 

and actually, if you go to the remote villages in Anatolia you will not be able to see any single woman wearing burka.they only wear a simple headscarf which can be seen in the villages of europe as well.

 

 

 regarding the history of burqa:

ref:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

 

This type of dress has its origins with desert times long before Islam arrived. It had two functions. Firstly as a sand mask in windy conditions. This would be worn by men and women and is still common today. For women only the masking of the face and body was used when one group was being raided by another. These raids often involved the taking of women of child bearing age. With all women hidden behind a veil, and the home team fighting back, the chances of being taken were substantially reduced as the women of child bearing age could not be quickly distinguished from the very young and the old.[citation needed]

 

4061.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:21 pm

 

Quoting _AE_

 

 

 Burka national dress and historic?!?!?!!!!  Headscarfs may have been, but burka?!?!  lol

 

In my country women used to wear big crinoline dresses - does that mean we should wear them now? lol

 

 No, but if they did, would you ban it by law and humiliate them????????????  Would you tell them that they don´t have identities, or choices, or sluts in bed? C´mon!!!!

4062.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:24 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 

 

 regarding the history of burqa:

ref:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

 

This type of dress has its origins with desert times long before Islam arrived. It had two functions. Firstly as a sand mask in windy conditions. This would be worn by men and women and is still common today. For women only the masking of the face and body was used when one group was being raided by another. These raids often involved the taking of women of child bearing age. With all women hidden behind a veil, and the home team fighting back, the chances of being taken were substantially reduced as the women of child bearing age could not be quickly distinguished from the very young and the old.[citation needed]

 

 

 

we are not talking about a simple veil. you can`t compare today`s burka to the veil people used to protect themselves from the desert climate. a veil used for protection does not dictate people not to expose their hair in any way.

 

4063.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:30 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

 

we are not talking about a simple veil. you can`t compare today`s burka to the veil people used to protect themselves from the desert climate. a veil used for protection does not dictate people not to expose their hair in any way.

 

 

 For God´s sake, what are you discussing, first you said Burqa is not a national dress, but what the prostitutes wear.. now I prove it has a history long before Islam as a national dress, now you say you can´t compare...  can you follow what you are saying?  Please check the website provided for the full description of what a burqa is and was.. then we can discuss later.

4064.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:39 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 

 

 For God´s sake, what are you discussing, first you said Burqa is not a national dress, but what the prostitutes wear.. now I prove it has a history long before Islam as a national dress, now you say you can´t compare...  can you follow what you are saying?  Please check the website provided for the full description of what a burqa is and was.. then we can discuss later.

 

when did I say it wasn`t a national dress? of course it` s a national dress in a few countries like iran, what Im saying is it`s not a traditional dress code. you`re talking about the veil people used to protect themselves from the desert climate and argue that it`s what makes burka traditional. how can you say that everywhere in Arabia is desert? you think people wore burka in the cities before islam, if you argue that it is a pre-islamic tradition? for what reason?

 

and you proved me that it has a history long before islam as a national dress? there wasn`t anything "national" before the French revolution.



Edited (10/15/2009) by mhsn supertitiz

4065.       Merih
933 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 12:43 pm

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

when did I say it wasn`t a national dress? of course it` s a national dress in a few countries like iran, what Im saying is it`s not a traditional dress code. you`re talking about the veil people used to protect themselves from the desert climate and argue that it`s what makes burka traditional. how can you say that everywhere in Arabia is desert? you think people wore burka in the cities before islam, if you argue that it is a pre-islamic tradition? for what reason?

 

and you proved me that it has a history long before islam as a national dress? there wasn`t anything "national" before the French revolution.

 

 blah blah blah.........

and you are???

4066.       alameda
3499 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 09:49 pm

I beg to differ with you all here.  By what ever name you call it, please look here at this 2nd or 3rd Century BC Hellenistic:

Bronze Statuette 

 

or this one from the first Century AD Roman :
Palmyran Statue Fragment of a Veiled Dancer

 

You can, and I suggest you do, zoom in very close in, particular eyes area.  If you do you will see these garment is almost an exact duplicate of garments worn in Arabia today.

 

Quoting Merih

 

 

 regarding the history of burqa:

ref:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

 

This type of dress has its origins with desert times long before Islam arrived. It had two functions. Firstly as a sand mask in windy conditions. This would be worn by men and women and is still common today. For women only the masking of the face and body was used when one group was being raided by another. These raids often involved the taking of women of child bearing age. With all women hidden behind a veil, and the home team fighting back, the chances of being taken were substantially reduced as the women of child bearing age could not be quickly distinguished from the very young and the old.[citation needed]

 

 

 

4067.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 10:38 pm

pfff...like I said before, that statue that you can see a link of above here, that´s not a burqa. You could describe it perhaps as a nijab, but it´s not a burqa... i don´t think anybody outside of afghanistan has seen a burqa.

4068.       alameda
3499 posts
 15 Oct 2009 Thu 10:59 pm

Wrong....actually that´s what I thought, but....the word burqa is an Arabic word.

 

"Taken from the Arabic word ´برقع´ which exactly means face cover with eye openings. It does not mean the whole black dress. The black dress is called Abaya"

 

Both the scultures show a burqa....or what you would call a niqab....and abaya.........I think the point of the original source of this discourse was the objection to the obstruction of identity....as caused by face covering....and in particular the claim that it is demanded by Islam.

 

The sculptures show this tradition was in practice long before the advent of Islamic civilization, and as such did not have origins in Islam.

 

.............and for your interest, I have seen, and actually have a burqa....and a niqab....and an abaya....not that I wear them.....and for those who don´t like Wikipedia....this information was told to me in person by more than a few persons native to the Arabian  Gulf.

 

 

Quoting barba_mama

pfff...like I said before, that statue that you can see a link of above here, that´s not a burqa. You could describe it perhaps as a nijab, but it´s not a burqa... i don´t think anybody outside of afghanistan has seen a burqa.

 

 



Edited (10/15/2009) by alameda [add]
Edited (10/15/2009) by alameda [add]

4069.       alameda
3499 posts
 16 Oct 2009 Fri 12:16 am

 

I love Ms. Muazzez Ýlmiye Çýð....thank you for mentioning her here.

Her website...

 

I´d love to read more of her research. I might point out just what or who an Arab is...or who anyone is seems to be fluid. The  fact of the matter is ancient Sumer was in what is now Arab land.....

"Iraq was home to the earliest known civilization on Earth, the Sumerian civilization, which arose in the fertile Tigris-Euphrates river valley of southern Iraq in the mid 6th millennium BC."

 

........some Lebanese call themselves Phoenecians..which is interesting because it seems to me there are quite a few others who could call themselves by the same name. Map

 

FWIW.....I have even met some who claim to be Assyrians......Hmmm....I wonder what their relationship is to Assyria....What´s in a name...evidently....quite a lot!.......I guess the name dictates the sweetness of the smell......for some.

 

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

for once, I have to agree with you. Big smile

 

in fact according to Muazzez Ilmiye Cig who is one of the few sumerian experts around the world, burka was the traditional dress code of Sumerian prostitutes while Arabs didn`t have such an outfit at the time.

 

and actually, if you go to the remote villages in Anatolia you will not be able to see any single woman wearing burka.they only wear a simple headscarf which can be seen in the villages of europe as well.

 

 

 



Edited (10/16/2009) by alameda [add]

4070.       Trudy
7887 posts
 16 Oct 2009 Fri 08:20 am


A RADICAL Muslim group sparked outrage last night as it launched a massive campaign to impose sharia law on Britain.




 


The fanatical group Islam4UK has ­announced plans to hold a potentially ­incendiary rally in London later this month. And it is calling for a complete upheaval of the British legal system, its officials and ­legislation. Members have urged Muslims from all over Britain to converge on the capital on October 31 for a procession to demand the full implementation of sharia law. On a website to promote their cause they deride British institutions, showing a mock-up picture of Nelson’s Column surmounted by a minaret. Plans for the demonstration have been ­delivered to the Metropolitan Police and could see up to 5,000 extremists marching to demand the controversial system.


 


The procession – dubbed March 4 Shari’ah – will start at the House of Commons, which the group’s website describes as the “very place where the lives of millions of people in the UK are changed and it is from here where unjust wars are launched”. The group then intends to march to 10 Downing Street and “call for the removal of the tyrant Gordon Brown from power”. The march will then converge on Trafalgar Square where protesters expect it “will gather even more support from tourists and members of the public, making clear in the heart of London the need for Shari’ah in society”.


 


The group declared: “We hereby request all Muslims in the United Kingdom, in Manchester, Leeds, Cardiff, Glasgow and all other places to join us and collectively declare that as submitters to Almighty Allah, we have had enough of democracy and man-made law and the depravity of the British culture.


“On this day we will call for a complete upheaval of the British ruling system its members and legislature, and demand the full implementation of Shari’ah in Britain.”


 


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