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what caught my eye today
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4020. |
12 Oct 2009 Mon 10:47 pm |
I think it´s right that burka should be banned, especially the saudi arabia/taliban style ones! However, I don´t think that all women are forced by their husbands to wear it, although their husbands surely enjoy their freedom and their wifes´ imprisonment. It´s not the burka that´s the root of the problem, it´s the overbearing, present everywhere sexism, objectification of women, patriarchal values that we are all brainwashed with from childhood. It is not truly liberating when women are forced to wear something, although I agree that some limits have to be set.
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4021. |
13 Oct 2009 Tue 04:46 pm |
I think it´s right that burka should be banned, especially the saudi arabia/taliban style ones! However, I don´t think that all women are forced by their husbands to wear it, although their husbands surely enjoy their freedom and their wifes´ imprisonment. It´s not the burka that´s the root of the problem, it´s the overbearing, present everywhere sexism, objectification of women, patriarchal values that we are all brainwashed with from childhood. It is not truly liberating when women are forced to wear something, although I agree that some limits have to be set.
I totally agree with you.... I used to believe women did not have a place in society unless they take of that headscarf (either forced by families or husbands) and those baggy clothes (specially the black ones, and the veil..) But now living in Dubai, where you can see women from everywhere around the world living in peace, in different positions in companies or government jobs, and making even some friends, I realised that:
1. They are not necessarily forced by somebody, but choose for themselves.
2. They can be and are as intelligent, humorous and social as us.
3. The burqa is sometimes the national dress code.
In my conversations, they told me that they feel fully naked when they don´t wear a hijab (a head scarf), they are bullied in Europe, US, Canada and Australia (mainly), while every other person can enjoy their choice of clothing, wearing bikinis, or not wearing at all.
And I do believe while we support freedom in belief and speech, we have double standards when people believe in something that we don´t.
Is that fair?? To allow someone to wear a tiny bikini and not to allow someone a burquini (which covers the body and the hair)??? And why don´t we strip off the nuns as well, they are fully covered too?????
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4022. |
13 Oct 2009 Tue 06:08 pm |
+++
I do think when the face is covered, making identity very difficult, it´s going too far.
I totally agree with you.... I used to believe women did not have a place in society unless they take of that headscarf (either forced by families or husbands) and those baggy clothes (specially the black ones, and the veil..) But now living in Dubai, where you can see women from everywhere around the world living in peace, in different positions in companies or government jobs, and making even some friends, I realised that:
1. They are not necessarily forced by somebody, but choose for themselves.
2. They can be and are as intelligent, humorous and social as us.
3. The burqa is sometimes the national dress code.
In my conversations, they told me that they feel fully naked when they don´t wear a hijab (a head scarf), they are bullied in Europe, US, Canada and Australia (mainly), while every other person can enjoy their choice of clothing, wearing bikinis, or not wearing at all.
And I do believe while we support freedom in belief and speech, we have double standards when people believe in something that we don´t.
Is that fair?? To allow someone to wear a tiny bikini and not to allow someone a burquini (which covers the body and the hair)??? And why don´t we strip off the nuns as well, they are fully covered too?????
Edited (10/13/2009) by alameda
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4023. |
13 Oct 2009 Tue 07:45 pm |
+++
I do think when the face is covered, making identity very difficult, it´s going too far.
I do agree with that too.....
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4025. |
13 Oct 2009 Tue 09:31 pm |
My god I am scared What will happen to my farm if it succumbs to the wrath of those bed ameriken neighbuurs 
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4026. |
13 Oct 2009 Tue 10:04 pm |
My god I am scared What will happen to my farm if it succumbs to the wrath of those bed ameriken neighbuurs 
You will just have to surrender your farm to me!!! MUAHHHHH!!!
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4027. |
14 Oct 2009 Wed 02:28 am |
1. They are not necessarily forced by somebody, but choose for themselves.
2. They can be and are as intelligent, humorous and social as us.
3. The burqa is sometimes the national dress code.
In my conversations, they told me that they feel fully naked when they don´t wear a hijab (a head scarf), they are bullied in Europe, US, Canada and Australia (mainly), while every other person can enjoy their choice of clothing, wearing bikinis, or not wearing at all.
And I do believe while we support freedom in belief and speech, we have double standards when people believe in something that we don´t.
Is that fair?? To allow someone to wear a tiny bikini and not to allow someone a burquini (which covers the body and the hair)??? And why don´t we strip off the nuns as well, they are fully covered too?????
Whoooaaaa there! I have no idea which region of the world you´re referring to but I don´t know a European country that allows walking naked in the streets. As a matter of fact, I have never seen people in bikini in the street even in 35C heat, so, please, do not compare beach outfits with everyday clothing as it´s a missed comparison. Even following your line of reasoning, allowing burka in the evil west should happen at the same time countries like Saudi allow women to wear bikinis in the streets or walk around naked. Besides, you failed to acknowledge another factor of why burkas should be banned - the public safety issue. I don´t think it´s allowed to walk in the streets in a balaclava. Why should it be allowed to wear burka? If I´m not mistaken you may get in trouble in certain cities if you have a hoodie on your head, how´s that regarding personal freedom?
Although, as you write, women are not necessarily forced to wear these discriminatory clothes, how can a country that grants equality tell the difference between women forced to humiliate themselves consciously and those who are forced to it?
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4028. |
14 Oct 2009 Wed 03:35 am |
Believe it or not, you seem to have been in more conservative areas....in SF and NYC I have seen too much nakedness parading around in the streets. (for my taste anyway) I choose the word naked, rather than nude on purpose. Groan....it hurt my eyes! Some things are better covered. It´s not illegal in quite a few places, and more than a few take advantage of that "freedom"
You should come here and see what one sees during the summertime. I remember one time in NYC seeing a man wearing nothing but a gourd on his privates, a ladies wig on his knee walking down the street....everything else was bare...
I think we are getting somewhat confused with semantics. Burka???please define exactly what it is? Do you mean the Afghani thing with the grid over the eyes? I tried one of those on and really found it hard to see out of, and my eyelashes got stuck in the grid. I have no idea how those ladies manage. I have spoken with a few Afghani women who told me they had no problem with them, but I notice they do not wear them here. Wearing a long robe and head covering really should not present any problem IMHO.
Wearing something that covers ones face like a balaclava is something else and I certainly understand why people would be upset about them.
I undersand how some women may feel more comfortable wearing a covering. It´s sort of like going out but not being out. Like having an invisibility cloak...but when they are in Western countries, they shouldn´t expect it.
If you ever wore one of the all covering things, you might find your feelings change. In the "West" we are used to seeing more physicality of individuals. In the Burka wearing societies, other things are seen.
They are very recognizable by their movement and posture.
You see things you do not see when you are looking at the same women in Western garments.
Whoooaaaa there! I have no idea which region of the world you´re referring to but I don´t know a European country that allows walking naked in the streets. As a matter of fact, I have never seen people in bikini in the street even in 35C heat, so, please, do not compare beach outfits with everyday clothing as it´s a missed comparison. Even following your line of reasoning, allowing burka in the evil west should happen at the same time countries like Saudi allow women to wear bikinis in the streets or walk around naked. Besides, you failed to acknowledge another factor of why burkas should be banned - the public safety issue. I don´t think it´s allowed to walk in the streets in a balaclava. Why should it be allowed to wear burka? If I´m not mistaken you may get in trouble in certain cities if you have a hoodie on your head, how´s that regarding personal freedom?
Although, as you write, women are not necessarily forced to wear these discriminatory clothes, how can a country that grants equality tell the difference between women forced to humiliate themselves consciously and those who are forced to it?
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4029. |
14 Oct 2009 Wed 07:24 am |
Whoooaaaa there! I have no idea which region of the world you´re referring to but I don´t know a European country that allows walking naked in the streets. As a matter of fact, I have never seen people in bikini in the street even in 35C heat, so, please, do not compare beach outfits with everyday clothing as it´s a missed comparison.
I guess you have never been to Turkey, go to Antalya, Bodrum, Alanya, etc... I guarantee you see people in bikinis and swimming clothes shopping from the supermarkets, eating in reastaurant, topless women lying in the beach, in front of families and kids,like the most natural thing in the world.
It´s not only bikinis. I am living in a Muslim Arab country, but I still see people in the supermarket, and sometimes in the malls, with very tiny tank tops and tiny mini shorts which exposes half of their buttocks.
And are you telling me you don´t see them in Europe? Well, may be you need some glasses.
Even following your line of reasoning, allowing burka in the evil west should happen at the same time countries like Saudi allow women to wear bikinis in the streets or walk around naked. Besides, you failed to acknowledge another factor of why burkas should be banned - the public safety issue. I don´t think it´s allowed to walk in the streets in a balaclava. Why should it be allowed to wear burka? If I´m not mistaken you may get in trouble in certain cities if you have a hoodie on your head, how´s that regarding personal freedom?
I am not a supporter of Saudi Arabia, yet they never talk about freedom like you people do. You are the ones who pushes everything to the limits and want everything to be free for you. You can be Gay and get married, you can make fun of every religion and every important thing other people care about, but when it comes to freedom of belief in particularly Islam, and covering your hair, and wearing clothes that doesn´t show your curves, breasts and body, your support of freedom ends there.
Although, as you write, women are not necessarily forced to wear these discriminatory clothes, how can a country that grants equality tell the difference between women forced to humiliate themselves consciously and those who are forced to it?
So you think a women is humiliated when she doesn´t show her body shape, and her beauty to every man possible on earth, and they are great when they flirt with everyone, show their body to everyone, and satisfy your eyes.
You know what, people like you have turned the women into a piece of meat, and if you are telling me that you don´t notice a womens mini skirt at work, or her breasts in a very generous top and choose a more beautiful women rather than a fat one to employ, YOU ARE A LIAR MY FRIEND.
I hope I haven´t been too hateful... but I don´t like people to force me neither to cover up nor open up....
Freedom is for everyone.
Edited (10/14/2009) by Merih
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4030. |
14 Oct 2009 Wed 11:44 am |
I hope I haven´t been too hateful... but I don´t like people to force me neither to cover up nor open up....
Freedom is for everyone.
It seems you are unable to rationally discuss this - you are comparing a burka to a bikini, instead of everyday clothes that people wear - the majority of which would satisfy the Quran´s requirement! As this muslim group in Canada are saying, the burka has nothing to do with the Quran and more to do with men´s jealousy.
If you live in an arab country, then you must be aware that such "rules" create extremes. It is common to see women shopping in their burkas for their tiny mini skirts, sexy tops and lingerie (much of which would be too tarty even for the west!! ) and going home to play the slut for their demanding husbands. If you support this hypocracy then fine, but please dont call it "freedom for everyone" 
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