After Ýslam start to be stronger and to be more accurate during The Treaty of Hudaybiyya Rasul SAVgot the chance to teach others Ýslam, and to do so he sent them Ýmams to teach it to them...note that many of those people also were Arabs, and they were living at same time too, so they should had understood the circumstances of each aya verses better than us , no ?!

But Still, Rasul SAV sent them imams to teach them so he be sure that he delivered what he has been taught correctly, and understood same way by anyone no matter how far or near he might be.

So you have objections that we learn about our religion from imams now ? And we are many years past Rasul SAV time and not living same  circumstances ?

How would we understood about Al Mucadala Sura and understood the story of that woman who was arguing Rasul SAV if imams didnt explain ?

How would we understood El Tawba Sura and what did it mean and in which  circumstances ALLAH sent it ?!

Sure you would understood what you read, you would understood the rules, but would you understood what is behinde it or the background of it unless you have been told ?!

You are not so proud to learn math and science from a math and science teachers, but you proud to learn religion from Ýmams ?!

We dont have clergy like in Christianity or Judaism, we have imams, and thats different, imams dont control our lives telling us what to do and what not to do, they dont have power over us, we have our rules from Qur´an and Sunna

 Part of imams job to be like teachers, deliver the informations in a simple way.

Some of them hadith imams search hadiths if they are good or made...some do measures..things now are different than the past we would want to find what would religion say in somethings

Like when they said heroin is haram ´forbidden´ same like alcohol..there was no heroin at Rasul SAV time..so imams made measures for that and agreed on it.

And so on, as you know Ýslam has many section of religious science

But at all, everything imams say must be supported by the evidence from Quran and sunna so they would be accepted, if they dont offer such evidence what they say would mean anything at all.

And they must publish their evidence along with what they say for us regular people to think about,  compare and accept what they say.

And we are ordered in matters like that to search opinions of many imams and not just one and take the openion that the majority of them acknowledge , if they are different in matter...of course not basic one, all basics already covered up then we judge by ourselves which one of what they say is closer to our faith.

And that is what abudy said here

But im sure you know all that.

So How come that we would have clergy like in Christianity or Judaism ?!

AlphaF

First word that the prophet Mohammad (best selams on him) had received from Allah (swt) was READ, this word is for every muslim since that day till the last day.

No one needs clergy in Islam as in christianity or judaism, as long as every muslim CAN READ, well I READ Quran and when I don´t understand I don´t run for SOMEONE to explain and tell me what it says

I open Tafseer book and look for explanation, but if I know Arabic well I may not need the Tafseer book, and I already found that the translations of Quran meanings are very good and they take to the same meanings as in Arabic, somewhat there is  no excuse for whom doesn´t know Arabic .  Generally Quran is clear and direct specially in ORDERS.

Quran isn´t YOURS or MINE or SOMEONE´s else book, it´s the book of Allah (swt) to makind and to the other creations (I tried to find tehir names in English, but poor English doesn´t contain such a name, {specially I´m very choosy concerning words}.  So no Imam can tell you what Quran says as long as you can READ.

READ is the KEY of knowledge, whenever you can READ you won´t need anyone to cover your eyes and fill your ears with his self inclinations, and here I mean what some sheikhs could do in non Arabic countries.

Even Imams ended up in differences of opinion, so you point about "inclinations" is obviously not very valid.

If God can entrust all basic functions of clergy (burrial, marriage, leading  Moslems in prayers etc.) even to his humblest believer (so long as the believer is sane and capable; no need to be an Imam expert in Fikh) he must have created such believers capable to understand a book that He clearly meant for them to read. As such, Islam is a personal submission straight to God, not through intermediaries.

You seem well aware that the holy book starts with the personal instruction to "read": It does not say "ask Arabic Imams, what you understand not". History says the first 4 Khalifas (probably the only 4 that come close to being Islamic saints)  were actually killed by those who believed (pretended) they were better Moslems.

To answer my own question,  I think the strongest advocates of the idea that "Imams are absolutely necessary for an average Moslem to understand Islam" are the Imams themselves.

  There is much difference between who want to read and apply the rules, and who want to read and understand why should he apply those rules then apply them.

As i said in my upper post..its easy to read the rules and apply them...but its not easy to understand why ALLAH said that and in what circumstances, what people did so ALLAH send this verse or that, and you wont be able to know that when you read Quran alone because its not there.

As i gave the example Surat ElTawba, we dont say Bismellah Al Rahman Al Rahim before we start reading it, you wouldnt know why, you wouldnt know  know what happened unless you read Tafseer or ask Ýmam..Same as in Surat El Nour, you wouldnt understand that ALLAH meant Ayþe RA by some ayat unless you read Tafseer or ask Ýmam, in short...to get more explanations.

But if you just dont want to know...thats something else !

We were ordered to go back to our imams if we have something in religion we are not sure about or not clear!

Ýts even logic too, and you have the freedom and logic to choose what would you accept from imams opinions if they are in difference...and thats mercy too.

Ý dont know nor understand why are you against imams that much ?!

Sure there are good imams excellent ones and also bad ones, they are human after all, and we have our Quran, Sunna and minds to judge who is good and who is bad !

But to say we have same knowledge as them ?!!!

Thats kind of strange...unless you have same studies as they have !

Ý agree with you, they were best khalifas ever, only Ömer Abd El Aziz was a bit close to them through all over the history, but 3 of them were killed not 4, first  Khalifa died on his bed, and last one Ali RA was killed for something else and not by who pretended to be Muslim...but actually by who thought he is doing Ýslam a favor !

May ALLAH punish him for what he did .

You talk like an Imam, but let us see if you are sincere..

If King Abdullah, the custodian of two holy mosques ( that is what they call him: either the rest of the mosques are not holy, or he does not care or feel responsible for other mosques) gave you and me two Korans: to you one that is hand written, very old , very valuable and in green cover -  and to me, a brand new one,  straight from the printing house and in dark red cover. Would you be able to remember which one is yours, and which one is mine?

I talk like am Ýmam???

Thank you very much for this compliment AlphaF

But let me say it´s just grinding water about "dark red cover" and "green cover", the subject is Quran and not how its situation is, I read Quran from my mobile or from small old mushaf or from big new mushaf, they are all the same.

And I won´t grind water as well, so no importance to try to remember which one is yours and which one is mine.

First correction has been done by Canli (thanks to her).

Second correction is that whom killed second Khalifa wasn´t a muslim, he was magus.

There are five conditions at the fulfillment of which one is considered a Muslim. They are called the five pillars of Islam: 

1-) Shadat 

Esh´hadu anla ilahe ill´Allah, Wa esh´adhu an´na Mohammed´en abduhu wa Rasuluhu.

 I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, I bear witness that Mohammed is his slave and messenger.
This is the prerequisite of all other conditions. You start by uttering this sentence which is called Kelime-i Shadat.

2-) Prayer

 You must pray five times a day.

3-) Zekat

If you are wealthy enough to feed your family and if you have surplus after having spent for your basic needs, you must grant 1/40 of all your wealth to poor people.

4-) Fasting

You must fast during the month of Ramadan if you are in good health.

5-) Haj (Pilgrimage)

If you are wealthy enough to feed your family and if you have surplus after having spent for your basic needs, you must travel to Makkah for pilgrimage.

When you fulfill these conditions you are a Muslim. It doesn´t matter if you are in hijab or a strip tease dancer.  There are references indicating that only God knows who is a better believer.  When you read the first sentence, you will note that Mohammad is clearly introduced as both the messenger and a slave of God.  There is a clearly no clergy in Islam according to the book. Nevertheless, with all those hodjas, mullahs and princes around, we can´t say this applies to the practice of Islam.

Clergy´s in Christianity do not control our lives or tell us what to do.....not sure where your getting this..

Correct...and God has promised to be merciful if a Moslem, in good wiil, fails to follow all these orders, in total accord.

One thing god says he will not personally excuse are those  sins involving misdeeds on other peoples honor, life and property.

I thought they once held the keys to haven, and sold them to highest bidders, no?