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Soap Opera "Noor" (Gümüş) changes traditional Arab Gender Roles
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180.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 05:31 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 Actually its a big topic D_K if human got the choice or he is dectated what to do !

Ýts not easy to explain it but in short it goes like...human has the choice thats why he carry the consequences of his choice at same time ALLAH as god know what those choice would be and regarding to this HE already condemn them by what they will do.

So as you have the choice, the fault still would be yours.

Ý hope i made it clear...

And taking this as an example too, thats why one wont be able to understand Quran correctly if he/she doesnt have the knowledge for that, and only by having the right books or better imams they will

Later, you would get rest of the things by your own once you read, or you would know where you get the information you need in order to understand the backgrounds.

 

 Sounds reasonable.

 

But CANLI, what if I study all the religious books that I need? And what if I consult all the famous Imams and live like a good person (I already do Angel) but what if I can still not believe?  Maybe I will stop saying that I am against it, maybe I will understand more and respect more. But maybe I will never believe. Than what is waiting for me? Hell? Burning fire? Because I was a good person but just couldn´t believe? Does that make you a better person in Allahs eyes than me even though what I do is only HUMAN, and after all that is how god made us, as humans?

 

What bothers me is that religions don´t have place for those who do not believe. It is logical, but for me it prooves that either god didn´t ´write those books´, or, second possibility, god is evil and only has eye for submission and not for good humanity.

 

 

And I also think it was a nice discussion. Now I must go back to cleaning

181.       alameda
3499 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 06:17 pm

 

Quoting Deli_kizin

 

 

 Sounds reasonable.

 

But CANLI, what if I study all the religious books that I need? And what if I consult all the famous Imams and live like a good person (I already do Angel) but what if I can still not believe?  Maybe I will stop saying that I am against it, maybe I will understand more and respect more. But maybe I will never believe.

 

There is a lot to sift through.....a tremendous amount....and so much has been added and subtracted that it all gets very confusing.  At the heart all religions have the same kernel.   I think the important thing is to seek with an open mind and heart.  To believe out of fear is one thing, to believe out of conviction is another.  Belief can not be demanded or forced.

 

There are times when one is presented with irrefutable evidance of which they still deny because they do not want to embrace the truth, that is a different matter.  Have we not all seen the one who when asked, for example, aren´t those shoes too tight?", and they will say ...." no they are comfortable"......that is denying the truth. ....or again when being told," see I told you you would get sick if....." and although one is sick they deny it.

 

182.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 06:25 pm

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=81677&sectionid=351020202

 

Just so that we avoid any possible ambiguities, can anyone tell me if any of the ladies in the picture can be said to have a "hijab" or "niqab".

 

I want to know if any one of the is going straight to hell for not following the Islamic dress code !

 



Edited (7/18/2009) by AlphaF
Edited (7/18/2009) by AlphaF
Edited (7/18/2009) by AlphaF

183.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 06:53 pm

I must say |I enjoyed this discussion as well. Of course I disagree with a lot of ideas that some members represent and they disagree with mine, but it was a pleasure to confront these views. And, moreover, we avoided casting stones and vulgarisms (apart from one incident). Is the TC folk finally learning to debate?

184.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 06:58 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 Is the TC folk finally learning to debate?

 

 Now you scared me!

185.       alameda
3499 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 07:05 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=81677&sectionid=351020202

 

Just so that we avoid any possible ambiguities, can anyone tell me if any of the ladie in the picture can be said to have a "hijab" or "niqab".

 

I want to know is any one of the is going straight to hell for not following the Islamic dress code !

 

 

You know AlphaF, I really don´t think anyone here is qualified to determine just who is going straight to Hell.....I think here are some who would be amazed at just who finds themselves where.....

186.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 10:22 pm

Alameda,

 

You tell me which girl fits the holy specifications, if any...I will draw my own conclusions.



Edited (7/18/2009) by AlphaF

187.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 18 Jul 2009 Sat 10:30 pm

Guess who are the strongest advocates of the  weird idea "individuals can never understand Islam by reading Kuran themselves, alone;  Imams are absolutely necessary to borrow your Kuran and then tell you what it says"".

 

Can somebody explain to me then, why Islam does not have  clergy like in Christianity or Judaism ?

 

 

188.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Jul 2009 Sun 01:19 am

 

Quoting Deli_kizin

 

 

 Sounds reasonable.

 

But CANLI, what if I study all the religious books that I need? And what if I consult all the famous Imams and live like a good person (I already do Angel) but what if I can still not believe?  Maybe I will stop saying that I am against it, maybe I will understand more and respect more. But maybe I will never believe. Than what is waiting for me? Hell? Burning fire? Because I was a good person but just couldn´t believe? Does that make you a better person in Allahs eyes than me even though what I do is only HUMAN, and after all that is how god made us, as humans?

 

What bothers me is that religions don´t have place for those who do not believe. It is logical, but for me it prooves that either god didn´t ´write those books´, or, second possibility, god is evil and only has eye for submission and not for good humanity.

 

 

And I also think it was a nice discussion. Now I must go back to cleaning

 

 Actually D_K i cant answer your question, at issues like this i believe only ALLAH can have the answer to such questions, HE is the judge and not us

Not everything are %100 white or %100 black, if so it would have been easy to put the rules in front of us and judge each other .

There are many degrees at the middle that only ALLAH would be able to judge and say which is which not human.

What i know is infidel will go to hell yes

Ýnfidel is the one who deny the existence of God.And it sound logic to me, if you deny the existence of HÝM How come you want to go to HÝS Heaven or fear HÝS hell ?!

Also if you deny HÝS existence you shouldnt also be in HÝS Heaven...excuse me...but what for ?!

Ýf you are a good infidel..good human i mean, you would be rewarded for being good at life time not after life ´second life´ anyway, infidels dont believe in second life, so they will take their rights too.

 

As for those who believe in god and believe there is no god but one god but at same time dont believe that Mohammed SAV is the last prophets and dont believe in Ýslam...so i dont know

Ý actually cant say.

Ýt goes some how at the middle between the white and the black

Who believe ALLAH is the only God and no God but God and Mohammed SAV is the last prophet will be in Heaven at the scond life ... that is i know that is the clear white.

 

Other than that i believe only ALLAH know.

 

PS: ´You´ general term

189.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Jul 2009 Sun 01:25 am

 

Quoting AlphaF

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=81677&sectionid=351020202

 

Just so that we avoid any possible ambiguities, can anyone tell me if any of the ladies in the picture can be said to have a "hijab" or "niqab".

 

I want to know if any one of the is going straight to hell for not following the Islamic dress code !

 

 

Ý dont get your question !

Are you asking who is wearing hijab or niqab in that picture ?!

Well, Emine Erdoðan and Wife of qatari Sheikh are wearing hijab !

 

Alpha, ALLAH didnt say that who doesnt wear hijab will go to hell, ALLAH ordered us to wear it yes.

So no one actually can say who would go to hell and who is not...its not our jobs to do it, we are not God.

 

190.       CANLI
5084 posts
 19 Jul 2009 Sun 02:16 am

 

Quoting AlphaF

Guess who are the strongest advocates of the  weird idea "individuals can never understand Islam by reading Kuran themselves, alone;  Imams are absolutely necessary to borrow your Kuran and then tell you what it says"".

 

Can somebody explain to me then, why Islam does not have  clergy like in Christianity or Judaism ?

 

 

 

 After Ýslam start to be stronger and to be more accurate during The Treaty of Hudaybiyya Rasul SAVgot the chance to teach others Ýslam, and to do so he sent them Ýmams to teach it to them...note that many of those people also were Arabs, and they were living at same time too, so they should had understood the circumstances of each aya verses better than us , no ?!

But Still, Rasul SAV sent them imams to teach them so he be sure that he delivered what he has been taught correctly, and understood same way by anyone no matter how far or near he might be.

 

So you have objections that we learn about our religion from imams now ? And we are many years past Rasul SAV time and not living same  circumstances ?

How would we understood about Al Mucadala Sura and understood the story of that woman who was arguing Rasul SAV if imams didnt explain ?

How would we understood El Tawba Sura and what did it mean and in which  circumstances ALLAH sent it ?!

Sure you would understood what you read, you would understood the rules, but would you understood what is behinde it or the background of it unless you have been told ?!

 

You are not so proud to learn math and science from a math and science teachers, but you proud to learn religion from Ýmams ?!

 

We dont have clergy like in Christianity or Judaism, we have imams, and thats different, imams dont control our lives telling us what to do and what not to do, they dont have power over us, we have our rules from Qur´an and Sunna

 Part of imams job to be like teachers, deliver the informations in a simple way.

Some of them hadith imams search hadiths if they are good or made...some do measures..things now are different than the past we would want to find what would religion say in somethings

Like when they said heroin is haram ´forbidden´ same like alcohol..there was no heroin at Rasul SAV time..so imams made measures for that and agreed on it.

And so on, as you know Ýslam has many section of religious science

But at all, everything imams say must be supported by the evidence from Quran and sunna so they would be accepted, if they dont offer such evidence what they say would mean anything at all.

And they must publish their evidence along with what they say for us regular people to think about,  compare and accept what they say.

And we are ordered in matters like that to search opinions of many imams and not just one and take the openion that the majority of them acknowledge , if they are different in matter...of course not basic one, all basics already covered up then we judge by ourselves which one of what they say is closer to our faith.

And that is what abudy said here

Quoting abudy99

 

don´t you believe in  Multi-denominational , it is good thing when it comes in Matters of fiqh ( islamic jurisprudence ) , there are four famus fiqh school in islam , hanafi - maliki , shafi´i , hanbali .

but all these schools concurrent about 2 points :

1. the Sources of legislation are qur´an , sunna ,scholarly consensus , and analogy.

2. Fundamentals of Religion - or matters of faith-  are (one and only)

 

But im sure you know all that.

So How come that we would have clergy like in Christianity or Judaism ?!

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