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200.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 20 Jul 2009 Mon 05:41 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

Quote:

We dont have clergy like in Christianity or Judaism, we have imams, and thats different, imams dont control our lives telling us what to do and what not to do, they dont have power over us, we have our rules from Qur´an and Sunna

 Part of imams job to be like teachers, deliver the informations in a simple way.

 

Clergy´s in Christianity do not control our lives or tell us what to do.....not sure where your getting this..No way

I thought they once held the keys to haven, and sold them to highest bidders, no?

 

201.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 20 Jul 2009 Mon 06:03 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

I thought they once held the keys to haven, and sold them to highest bidders, no?

 

 

 Many hundreds of years ago, when the vast majority of people were illiterate, yes, I would have to agree that the clergy convinced many people that they held the keys to heaven and assured a place in heaven to those who gave the church the most money.   However, most of us realize now that this had little to do with the will or teachings of God, but with the greed of men. 

 

Are there similar problems in Islam? 

202.       alameda
3499 posts
 20 Jul 2009 Mon 06:41 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

 

 Many hundreds of years ago, when the vast majority of people were illiterate, yes, I would have to agree that the clergy convinced many people that they held the keys to heaven and assured a place in heaven to those who gave the church the most money.   However, most of us realize now that this had little to do with the will or teachings of God, but with the greed of men. 

 

Are there similar problems in Islam? 

 

 Anytime you have the potential of great power, there are those who will seek to take as much of that power as they can.  They will keep people uneducated and ignorant so as to hinder their truth discovery. 

 

As far as the Roman Catholic church is concerned, I know they were selling things that were said to get you out of Pergatory by Saturday.....so said the nuns...and that was not hundreds of years ago, but more like a couple of  decades ago......(Catholic relatives)....

203.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 20 Jul 2009 Mon 08:17 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

 

 Many hundreds of years ago, when the vast majority of people were illiterate, yes, I would have to agree that the clergy convinced many people that they held the keys to heaven and assured a place in heaven to those who gave the church the most money.   However, most of us realize now that this had little to do with the will or teachings of God, but with the greed of men. 

 

Are there similar problems in Islam? 

Hey ! dont be a spoil joy.

For all we know, none of the key buyers ever returned and reported a fraud !

 



Edited (7/20/2009) by AlphaF

204.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 20 Jul 2009 Mon 08:34 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

Hey ! dont be a spoil joy.

For all we know, none of the key buyers ever returned and reported a fraud !

 

 

 I will let you know if mine works!<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

205.       CANLI
5084 posts
 21 Jul 2009 Tue 12:03 am

What is the cheque that Christians pay for Church every month ?!

Ý remember we had a discussion here long time ago about the Pop and Keith said if that so, i wont paying my monthly cheque anymore...something like that.

206.       CANLI
5084 posts
 21 Jul 2009 Tue 12:07 am

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 

 

 Many hundreds of years ago, when the vast majority of people were illiterate, yes, I would have to agree that the clergy convinced many people that they held the keys to heaven and assured a place in heaven to those who gave the church the most money.   However, most of us realize now that this had little to do with the will or teachings of God, but with the greed of men. 

 

Are there similar problems in Islam? 

 

To believe that Ýmams can give us places at Heaven ?

NO.

But in some areas where people are not educated ´ignorant´ they believe if good imam make dua for them, ALLAH will accept it from him rather from them , but that is as far as imams can get, but giving places ? Naaahhhh

They knew its between ALLAH hand only no one else.

 

207.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 21 Jul 2009 Tue 12:15 am

Alameda - did you mean indulgence? That is paying for your sins to be cancelled? If so, then it stopped at The Reformation, so after 16th century there was no longer a chance to buy yourself out of the flames of hell lol. For Christians (well, Catholics) to have your sin forgiven you must trully repent, confess your sin to a priest and fulful the penalty (usually saying a few prayers). Without meeting even one of these conditions (ie if you do not trully repent) your confession is not valid.

 

Canli - maybe he was from Germany? As far as I know, because German government does not support religions financially, those who considert hemselves Christian pay taxes for the maintanance of churches and Christian institutions. In Poland priests usually ask for money, during a mass there is a collection when people give money for the parish (or missionaires or whatever-reason-the priest-gives). Perhaps in some churches people are asked to donate money at their will.

208.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Jul 2009 Tue 01:11 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Alameda - did you mean indulgence? That is paying for your sins to be cancelled? If so, then it stopped at The Reformation, so after 16th century there was no longer a chance to buy yourself out of the flames of hell lol. For Christians (well, Catholics) to have your sin forgiven you must trully repent, confess your sin to a priest and fulful the penalty (usually saying a few prayers). Without meeting even one of these conditions (ie if you do not trully repent) your confession is not valid.

 

 Well maybe that´s the way things went in Poland, but here things were very different....I saw and heard it myself..".....get this medallion and you are out on Saturday"........but what you say is true of course, if you really take care to read the doctrines....even if a priest "absolves" you.... it is not valid unless "real" repent....and I also believe some sort of "making ammends" is also required.  I think it´s called  "restitution"



Edited (7/21/2009) by alameda [add]

209.       teaschip
3870 posts
 21 Jul 2009 Tue 01:17 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Alameda - did you mean indulgence? That is paying for your sins to be cancelled? If so, then it stopped at The Reformation, so after 16th century there was no longer a chance to buy yourself out of the flames of hell lol. For Christians (well, Catholics) to have your sin forgiven you must trully repent, confess your sin to a priest and fulful the penalty (usually saying a few prayers). Without meeting even one of these conditions (ie if you do not trully repent) your confession is not valid.

 

Canli - maybe he was from Germany? As far as I know, because German government does not support religions financially, those who considert hemselves Christian pay taxes for the maintanance of churches and Christian institutions. In Poland priests usually ask for money, during a mass there is a collection when people give money for the parish (or missionaires or whatever-reason-the priest-gives). Perhaps in some churches people are asked to donate money at their will.

 

DD are you sure your not Catholic?<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)  You are correct...I ´m unaware of anyone buying their way to heaven in the Roman Catholic Church at least not in my parents, grandparents or great grandparents day..But if there is such a thing and God is an all loving God and is willing to take a small fee, I would be willing to pay.  Just tell me where to send the check.Big smile 

 

 Most Christian/Catholic churches do fundraisers, take Sunday collections, have weekly bingos, festivals etc..to raise money to keep the church going.   And you are correct that Catholics receive the sacrament of reconciliation...in order to be forgiven from your sins you have to ask this from a priest and usually this involves doing penance.Angel

210.       teaschip
3870 posts
 21 Jul 2009 Tue 01:20 am

 

Quoting alameda

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Alameda - did you mean indulgence? That is paying for your sins to be cancelled? If so, then it stopped at The Reformation, so after 16th century there was no longer a chance to buy yourself out of the flames of hell lol. For Christians (well, Catholics) to have your sin forgiven you must trully repent, confess your sin to a priest and fulful the penalty (usually saying a few prayers). Without meeting even one of these conditions (ie if you do not trully repent) your confession is not valid.

 

 Well maybe that´s the way things went in Poland, but here things were very different....I saw and heard it myself..".....get this medallion and you are out on Saturday"........but what you say is true of course, if you really take care to read the doctrines....even if a priest "absolves" you.... it is not valid unless "real" repent....and I also believe some sort of "making ammends" is also required.  I think it´s called  "restitution"

 

 Not sure what religion you are speaking of.  The only medallion I ever saw somebody receive based on recovery was at an AA meeting.  What religion or church are you speaking of?  I don´t understand "you are out on Saturday".

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