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Ramadan in Turkey
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290.       raindrops
267 posts
 31 Aug 2009 Mon 10:32 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Raindrops..We are still waiting

 

i m writing. it takes time. i also need some sources not to be unfounded.

greatly appreciate your patience in advance!

291.       lady in red
6947 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 01:56 am

 

Quoting raindrops

 

 

i m writing. it takes time. i also need some sources not to be unfounded.

greatly appreciate your patience in advance!

 

(on behalf of thehandsom) - ´oh goodee but you did say Monday!)

292.       _AE_
677 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 01:57 am

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

(on behalf of thehandsom)

 

 

293.       raindrops
267 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 07:29 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Raindrops..We are still waiting

I would start with one note: info below needs thinking and open mind. Do not reject for the reason of being ridiculous. Think more, search more. This info is really very interesting (and I cannot write here everything), but hard to believe at first. Thus, I talked to historians and they said that most probably it is true. Because information they have now is not system. Facts contradict each other. Nevertheless, unless it is officially accepted none can use it in science (at last millions of dissertations were made and proved based on usual information). SO, try to wide your consciousness first and then read.


We know history that never existed. Why so? Till about XVI century there was great empire from Western Europe to America, including Turkey, Persia, part of India, China, North of Africa – all territories we are aware of many local empires on. Of course, local “managers” at last wanted to became local kings and started the process of dividing. We know it as Reformation in Germany (for example there are some manuscripts telling that Germans were deadly afraid of Russians who would come and punish). There were two centres: in modern Russia and in Istanbul. After empire collapsed (mainly in Western Europe) to prevent other parts to restore former system history was changed. Old manuscripts were burnt and new written. New with new dates, some facts left away etc. Thus, history we know today was written by Miller and Scaliger. Empire was ruled from Russian territory, at that time new dynasty of Romanoff came.


Jerusalem means just Holly place for certain nation, people. As well as Mekka. So there were many jerusalems in the past, it modern Jerusalem is not one mentioned in the Bible as at that time it was not proper noun. There are several sources of description of Jerusalem and there is only one city that corresponds with them. It is Istanbul. Scaliger’s version says that Magomet II (sorry for spelling) conquered Istanbul and adds well known fact how boats were moved on land to Golden Horn. Russians have the same fact about their King Oleg who conquered Istanbul in the same way, but in X century. Though, this story is unique… there is painting in National library of Paris made by contemporary of conquer. Historians today agree with everything, but: clothes and arms of ottomans-atamans (in Russian): no turbans but Me helmets, no crescent but dragons and two-headed eagle…


Bible tells us measures of Solomon temple. They are measures of Ayasofia, which was built by Suleyman (king Solomon). Sofia did not go deeper into ground as it is seen with really old buildings and churches (s temple of st.Irina or small sofia). There are no signs of windows too close to the ground. It means that there is good basement and it is mentioned by Djelal Essad, Turkish historian, who also wrote about 25 foots of concrete (!) in the basement. Ayasofia was first experience. Huge dome was too heavy, thus temple today has many “additions”. Suleyman built Sofia in 1550-1557 years (temple was absent on maps of earlier periods). Sofia was covered by gold from inside as it is mentioned about temple of Solomon in Bible. Being first try of megalith construction it was the last as well due to Scaliger, bec nothing like that was built next to Sofia. Though if we look around we will see many Huge temples=mosques in Istanbul.


Solomon’s temple was built out of bricks (die to Bible) and we see it in Sofia. Bricks were invented ar XV-XVI century. Muslims do not recognize drawings of animals or people, as Christians do in their churches. Though frescos of Sofia were plastered in the middle of XVIII century. Before that Sofia was main temple of the city and burial-vault sultans. It became burial-vault at XVI century, right after it was built as it was usual practice. It was natural for that time because at that time two religions were together, as well Russian and Arabian languages were official languages of empire, nevertheless, people used Turkic for everyday life. They prayed mixing prayers to Allah and Jesus, from Kuran and Bible, on Russian then Persian then Turkic …


Sultan prayed in Sofia, why would they if Suleyman built Blue Mosque? He and his progeny gifted Sofia candles, jars for water to be consecrated. Khans of Crimea went to orthodox temples to ask the Blessed Virgin for a victory. After getting Crimea turks made Uspenski temple the residence of metropolitan in 1475.


And so on. There are many more facts: in the history of Western Europe, Russia, China, Egypt and all old world we have known from school age. Though we learnt faked history.

 

post is chaotic, but hope you get a clue.

 

294.       Melek74
1506 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 08:25 pm

 

Quoting raindrops

 

We know history that never existed. ... After empire collapsed (mainly in Western Europe) to prevent other parts to restore former system history was changed. Old manuscripts were burnt and new written. New with new dates, some facts left away etc. Thus, history we know today was written by Miller and Scaliger. ...

Wow, that reads like a George Orwell´s novel.  A huge conspiracy and all the historians are in on it (except the ones that you talked to). To say this is far fetched is a huge and polite understatement.

 

295.       baklava
16 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 08:47 pm

 Wow, Im about to burn my books on history after reading this comment.

 

Quoting raindrops

 

I would start with one note: info below needs thinking and open mind. Do not reject for the reason of being ridiculous. Think more, search more. This info is really very interesting (and I cannot write here everything), but hard to believe at first. Thus, I talked to historians and they said that most probably it is true. Because information they have now is not system. Facts contradict each other. Nevertheless, unless it is officially accepted none can use it in science (at last millions of dissertations were made and proved based on usual information). SO, try to wide your consciousness first and then read.


We know history that never existed. Why so? Till about XVI century there was great empire from Western Europe to America, including Turkey, Persia, part of India, China, North of Africa – all territories we are aware of many local empires on. Of course, local “managers” at last wanted to became local kings and started the process of dividing. We know it as Reformation in Germany (for example there are some manuscripts telling that Germans were deadly afraid of Russians who would come and punish). There were two centres: in modern Russia and in Istanbul. After empire collapsed (mainly in Western Europe) to prevent other parts to restore former system history was changed. Old manuscripts were burnt and new written. New with new dates, some facts left away etc. Thus, history we know today was written by Miller and Scaliger. Empire was ruled from Russian territory, at that time new dynasty of Romanoff came.


Jerusalem means just Holly place for certain nation, people. As well as Mekka. So there were many jerusalems in the past, it modern Jerusalem is not one mentioned in the Bible as at that time it was not proper noun. There are several sources of description of Jerusalem and there is only one city that corresponds with them. It is Istanbul. Scaliger’s version says that Magomet II (sorry for spelling) conquered Istanbul and adds well known fact how boats were moved on land to Golden Horn. Russians have the same fact about their King Oleg who conquered Istanbul in the same way, but in X century. Though, this story is unique… there is painting in National library of Paris made by contemporary of conquer. Historians today agree with everything, but: clothes and arms of ottomans-atamans (in Russian): no turbans but Me helmets, no crescent but dragons and two-headed eagle…


Bible tells us measures of Solomon temple. They are measures of Ayasofia, which was built by Suleyman (king Solomon). Sofia did not go deeper into ground as it is seen with really old buildings and churches (s temple of st.Irina or small sofia). There are no signs of windows too close to the ground. It means that there is good basement and it is mentioned by Djelal Essad, Turkish historian, who also wrote about 25 foots of concrete (!) in the basement. Ayasofia was first experience. Huge dome was too heavy, thus temple today has many “additions”. Suleyman built Sofia in 1550-1557 years (temple was absent on maps of earlier periods). Sofia was covered by gold from inside as it is mentioned about temple of Solomon in Bible. Being first try of megalith construction it was the last as well due to Scaliger, bec nothing like that was built next to Sofia. Though if we look around we will see many Huge temples=mosques in Istanbul.


Solomon’s temple was built out of bricks (die to Bible) and we see it in Sofia. Bricks were invented ar XV-XVI century. Muslims do not recognize drawings of animals or people, as Christians do in their churches. Though frescos of Sofia were plastered in the middle of XVIII century. Before that Sofia was main temple of the city and burial-vault sultans. It became burial-vault at XVI century, right after it was built as it was usual practice. It was natural for that time because at that time two religions were together, as well Russian and Arabian languages were official languages of empire, nevertheless, people used Turkic for everyday life. They prayed mixing prayers to Allah and Jesus, from Kuran and Bible, on Russian then Persian then Turkic …


Sultan prayed in Sofia, why would they if Suleyman built Blue Mosque? He and his progeny gifted Sofia candles, jars for water to be consecrated. Khans of Crimea went to orthodox temples to ask the Blessed Virgin for a victory. After getting Crimea turks made Uspenski temple the residence of metropolitan in 1475.


And so on. There are many more facts: in the history of Western Europe, Russia, China, Egypt and all old world we have known from school age. Though we learnt faked history.

 

post is chaotic, but hope you get a clue.

 

 

 

296.       raindrops
267 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 08:50 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

 

Wow, that reads like a George Orwell´s novel.  A huge conspiracy and all the historians are in on it (except the ones that you talked to). To say this is far fetched is a huge and polite understatement.

 

if you are not historian you are unaware of news that certain manuscripts are faked. you dont know that chronicle of Evsevia is base for 3/4 dates we operate, and it was recognized as faked. that ancient manuscripts were in fact issued by monasteries by 400 volumes. they are "based" on some documents that never were seen since that. that certain monasteries in different part of europe were responsible for certain themes to be published - what a coherency! we mainly use their volumes, arabian and eastern historians were almost forgotten bec west could not collaborate with east with the same efficiency.

in XVI Fridrih Prussian torn pictures of Luther and went to bed fully armed as was scared of russians and turks coming to punish him for reformation. that russian metropolitan wore mitre decorated with many gems, one of which, right above the cross, had Arabic character, as well as russian swords and other arm. That some sayings in catholic temples and churches in wester europe could be read if you knwo Glagolitic alphabet, later transformed into  Cyrillic (personnel call such inscription - unreadable). you were not shown pictures of russian tsars wearing turbans. that chronology of china is based on list of comets seen, which never existed as nowadays scientists proved...

 



Edited (9/1/2009) by raindrops

297.       Melek74
1506 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 09:09 pm

 

Quoting raindrops

 

if you are not historian you are unaware of news that certain manuscripts are faked. you dont know that chronicle of Evsevia is base for 3/4 dates we operate, and it was recognized as faked. that ancient manuscripts were in fact issued by monasteries by 400 volumes. they are "based" on some documents that never were seen since that. that certain monasteries in different part of europe were responsible for certain themes to be published - what a coherency! we mainly use their volumes, arabian and eastern historians were almost forgotten bec west could not collaborate with east with the same efficiency.

in XVI Fridrih Prussian torn pictures of Luther and went to bed fully armed as was scared of russians and turks coming to punish him for reformation. that russian metropolitan wore mitre decorated with many gems, one of which, right above the cross, had Arabic character, as well as russian swords and other arm. That some sayings in catholic temples and churches in wester europe could be read if you knwo Glagolitic alphabet, later transformed into  Cyrillic (personnel call such inscription - unreadable). you were not shown pictures of russian tsars wearing turbans. that chronology of china is based on list of comets seen, which never existed as nowadays scientists proved...

 

It might be helpful for us "not historians" to be pointed to some credible, preferably peer-reviewed sources, which would help us to update our knowledge. I´m not a fundementalist when it comes to history or science, I´ll be more than happy to change my perception of historical facts when faced with intellectually satisfying evidence.  Big smile

 

298.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 09:13 pm

history is always subjective. Even if things are written in stone, it was a bunch of people who put it there.

299.       raindrops
267 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 09:23 pm

 

Quoting Melek74

 

It might be helpful for us "not historians" to be pointed to some credible, preferably peer-reviewed sources, which would help us to update our knowledge. I´m not a fundementalist when it comes to history or science, I´ll be more than happy to change my perception of historical facts when faced with intellectually satisfying evidence.  Big smile

 

read Uve Topper for example

 

300.       Melek74
1506 posts
 01 Sep 2009 Tue 09:46 pm

 

Quoting raindrops

 

read Uve Topper for example

 

 

Yeah, well, that´s going to be a problem. I just checked in my library and the only books by him I could get (as an interlibrary loan) would be in Bulgarian or Russian. And there´s absolutely ZERO journal articles authored by him in any scientific journals. Ninja

There´s some stuff about him online, but how reliable is it really? I mean do I trust Wikipedia or historians? Tough choice.

 

P.S. I apologize if I´m coming across as making fun. I´m just being very sceptical about the theory as it seems outlandish. I´m sure it´s an interesting theory though and might be worth exploring further. I just don´t think a global conspiracy about historical facts is even remotly possible.



Edited (9/1/2009) by Melek74

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