+10000

I would second to that..

Obviously, once you look at everything from shagging point of view, a woman who pretends that she respects the backwardness might increase the chance  getting of laid as there are many backwards men around. (And of course same thing applies to Turkish nationalism)

It would make the chance much  broader as it were..

But of course if you look at the events from that angle..

The muslim women who have posted here are not complaining, and it is THEY who are affected. 

If your problem is with Islam as a whole then that is a different issue.  I have problems with ALL religions for many different reasons and have made that quite clear in the past, but as long as people CHOOSE to follow that religion then it´s their own concern, not ours.  If people are quite happy in their lives then that is all that matters.  When people become oppressed or victimised because of their religion it becomes a problem.  This works BOTH ways - all I see from you is victimisation.

 As I said previously, the Quran was written in a time where women WERE dirty during this time.  If people follow the words in the Quran exactly then that is why they are excluded.   I understand it is more about the health and wellbeing of those fasting rather than any kind of exclusion.  However, again I have to question why you are so concerned.  You are one one hand saying that you disagree with fasting and now you are complaining that certain people are excluded from fasting.  The muslim women who have posted here are not complaining, and it is THEY who are affected. 

If your problem is with Islam as a whole then that is a different issue.  I have problems with ALL religions for many different reasons and have made that quite clear in the past, but as long as people CHOOSE to follow that religion then it´s their own concern, not ours.  If people are quite happy in their lives then that is all that matters.  When people become oppressed or victimised because of their religion it becomes a problem.  This works BOTH ways - all I see from you is victimisation.

It is unbelievable that any balanced women who would say that ´ah.. dont interfere..if they want to see themselves as dirty,  let them see themselves as dirty´ !!!

Sad really..

Most women in islamic cultures (and not only islamic, but especially the ´tightly controlled communities´, do not have the same freedom of choice that you do. They are not presented with many options and allowed to make an informed decision about which they choose!!

The "choice" usually looks like this "either you conform or you will have the whole family/community... etc reject you, and practically you will have no chance of making it on your own... etc" That is the reality of most of these "choices".

Anyway... as long as this kind of system does not lead to human rights violations, you´re right -- it´s their problem, not mine. But if you see that there are some terrible outcomes of this, you have to question the foundations of their beliefs... and yes, it IS your responsibility to do this, because most of THOSE women CAN´T! YOU will be their voice, even if at this point it is unthinkable for them to criticize or object their traditions and families.

 Brilliant post!!! Finally!  I had given up on Trudy as she could not come up with a decent debate on this.  Yes I completely agree with you - HOWEVER I also do not think that ridiculing muslims on this site or face to face, is the way to make change. 

You got it completely WRONG again

So in scotland your version of  interpretation is different than many muslim countries.. Eh?

 I indeed disagree with fasting as a compulsory thing because I think it is not healthy but if someone wants to fast herself AND is not allowed just because she is a woman menstruating, I find that discrimination yes.

The way religious people look at society does affect me. You, on your secluded island with two Turks - like you said yesterday or so (however I remember many, many postings by you complaining about immigrants not adapting to British society), might not feel the influence of immigrants. I, living in a multicultural city (there are 162 nationalities in my town and 52% is not from Dutch origin!), do feel these impacts. And thát´s what I´m opposing at. Not the religion itself, if people want to live by rules from the 7th century, be my guest, but do not expect me to accept that these century old rules take over. I will not accept that from Muslims, not from Christians living by a Bible from 16th century (and yes, we have those too, and yes, I oppose to them too), not from Hindus, Buddhist or whoever.

You, on your secluded island with two Turks - like you said yesterday

You, on your secluded island with two Turks - like you said yesterday or so (however I remember many, many postings by you complaining about immigrants not adapting to British society), might not feel the influence of immigrants. I, living in a multicultural city (there are 162 nationalities in my town and 52% is not from Dutch origin!), do feel these impacts.

And thát´s what I´m opposing at. Not the religion itself, if people want to live by rules from the 7th century, be my guest, but do not expect me to accept that these century old rules take over.

 No handsom I think that is you that has got it wrong again. These interpretations were done by Islamic scholars. I will do another google and get a Scottish translation and get back too you.