i had a lover in turkey and we met about one year and a half before..he always says he loves me and i love him too much but when i asked him if he wants to marry me his answers made me too disappointed cuz he say he wont marry before 30.. he says HAYATIMI YAŞAYACAĞIM KARI DIRDIRI ÇEKEMEM..now we are twenty years old...i am planning to go turkey 2 years later after my university and marry him and get the citizenship of turkey to live with him...but now all vanished....if we dont marry i couln't get the citizenship ... if i wait him untill 30 years old then he says he dont love me what can i do? a 30 yaers old woman who wants?
Any one pls tell me your opinion about this whether is it worth to wait him..
i am so sad these days.

"Çok acı ama gerçek...Sen giderken nasıl gülümseyebilirim...Buna katlanabilecek miyim? Bunu gerçekten bilmiyorum...Keşke sana hiç rastlamasaydım...Eğer bilmek istiyorsan...Gitmeni hiç istemiyorum...Çünkü ağlamak istemiyorum,ağlamak yerine sana elveda canım demeliyim.."

finally pls reply me in english cuz my turkish fazla yok..teşekkürler...

thanks fo your opinion

Hello chihiro,
I am sorry for what you are going through.But I want to tell you be brave and face the life.It is not fairy tail all the time.There is many things in life.You are very young and all life is ahead of you.Why you think it is over, and who is gonna want 30 years old .In first place, if you have to ask my opinion, you do not have to wait for him.Why you think you have to do that.Especially he told you he is not ready for marriage.I think it is true.He is only 20.What he can do.I don't think he is ready to take all responsibilities.Sui is right,it is serious step in life and espesially for you.New place, new culture.Do you think you can handle all this at ounce.Marriage by itself is very serious step.Please think twice.In 10 years you are gonna have so many similar situations in your life.
Just live your life in full, time show you everything.
I wish you all the best.
Regards Bliss

Hi Chihiro
As i know turkish men prefer to marry girls, because of the family. Turkish moms think that only turkish girl can be good for her little boy.
Anyway, "something is ending and somwething begin" hope even if the end of this your story will be not good at the same time will start other pretty story.
Just want to say that everything is changing in this world specially human

ı agree wıth everythıng everyone else has saıd.
First - 30? Too old for anything. No, No, No.
But
Live your life. You don't live in Turkey. Don't sit and do nothing. You can wait 10 years of living a normal life and see what happens.
I think at least he is being honest with you. Many girls on this site have had experiences where the boy wants to marry them immediately (often with a visa in their sights).

On the other hand, maybe he is playing the old 'hard to get' game. If he tells you he doesn't want to marry you yet, maybe you'll be begging him and he'll say 'ok - if that's what you want?' Be careful!

i was just about to say what the last person said, i bet you if you put on a brave face, say you dont want to wait and you need to find someone who will want to be with you now and not need to wait, tell him you want to split up, i am pretty sure he will make out like ok he doesnt want to lose you when it could all be a trap to manipulate you so you feel you are lucky to have him and he can get what he wants.

Thanks for everyone's opinion...but too sad ..bizi ayrıldık...this time is i say to him...he says why?i say cuz u dont wanna marry...i say ok we are finished....he even dont have any sad emotion he just say ok....ah...too simple too immediate answer...too hurt...i really loves him but i wish i could forget him within this ten years and accept another boy proposion....ama çok zor...onu çok seviyorum..hayat yalan söylüyor...neden hayat bu kadar acımasız:'(....ın these days moralım bozulmak i wanna suicide.....

Sorry to hear you are going through a sad time. I don't have many words really but in time you might look back and be glad it all ended. Sometimes when I look back on my life I am glad I changed something in my life because in the end it all worked out for the very best. I know that seems a million miles away right now but just go day by day. Pain does get less with time.
Hang in there & hope you feel better soon.

dont speak anything of suicide. heart ache is hard, very hard, but time makes it better. if he is so easy with it then he is not the one for you who will love you always and want to make you happy. be strong and be postitve. you will be alright

Kirsty is right. Don't talk of suicide. I know its not so simple for you and you can say to the rest of us they we don't know what you are going through, but all of us have had the same kind of experience as you in our lives. You must trust and believe what we say. It really WILL get better. Carry on with your normal life. Be busy. One day you will wake up and everyting will really FEEL normal and then you will be free of the heartache.

He wasn't for you. You can see this now. I am sure you are a sweet and lovely girl who has everything to look forward to and a real love is just waiting somewhere in your future.

chiro,
i'm and american girl married to a turkish man for the past 13 years. in this time i have seen alot of different relationships with turkish people. one thing i have learned is family has alot to do with who there children marries. i have to say though that tukish people in my opinion are the nicest people i've ever met. honestly i think he's just using that he wants to wait until he's 30 to marry. don't wait for him hon if wanted to marry you he wouldn't wait. life is too short you need to be happy and have no regrets. feel free to e-mail me if you want to talk. my e-mail is anne1993@yahoo.com. good luck hon

Well i dotn agree that when you want to marry someone, you wouldnt want to wait with it. My man has already said a million times 'i am gonna marry you, there's no other way, you got to be my wife!', but i know he doesnt wanna marry now. He's only 20, im 18.. He doesn;t make money yet. His reason not to marry yet, is because he wants a beautiful wedding and guaranteeing that he can give me a good life when i become his wife. He'll need to have a job for that so he has to finish his university first. I dont think it is always good to marry straight away.

But if he didnt even give a sad expression when you broke up, then he's probably not worth your love. But there's one thing you must understand: if you feel lonely when you are on your own, then you are not good company yourself. So get yourself a cup tea, bake brownies, cry for 2 days and then go on ! Life is only too short when you dont enjoy it enough

I think your guy sounds more sensible. You are both young and he has offered sound economic reasons for delaying a wedding.

Firstly i must thanks for my buddy's opinion and consolations.

i just wish i have never found him.. I am lost.. i couldn't feel myself and see the future... I do have other turk frineds, but without him my journey to turkey is meaningless... i could only live by he and my memories now..no more..

thanks.

Hello Little Princess

I am glad you are here I just read your post and was worried for you. Please believe me when I say you will get past this. We are all here for you too if you need support.
I also wan to tell you I am close to 40 and I am still a Hotty you have your entire life ahead of you and time goes by so quickly. Your 20s especially as they did for me. I have a son but I have never been married............. by choice.
i have 20 year old boy's still chasing me so don't think that you do not have many good years left as you will see.
I think this guy will regret losing you someday. Boy's are slow in realization sometimes. Please don't punish yourself anymore you are not at fault!!!!!!! Lyndie said something I do not agree with (for the first time) I think your guy sounds more sensible. You are both young and he has offered sound economic reasons for delaying a wedding......................... I do not think that is why. He may have othe deep issues unknown to you who knows.

you need to look out for numero uno you!!!!!

Keep in touch sweetie!
classycaliprincess@yahoo.com
usaprincess_388@hotmail.com
I'd leave my phone# but I got in trouble here for that once already oh well why not 408-866-8939


Peace & Love & Happiness

Tsarevna Stacia
Kelley



PS
To some people marriage is suicide
intihar
suicide.

intihar etmek
1. to commit suicide.
2. slang to get married.

Sorry for the misunderstanding Kelley!
I was talking to Deli Kizim when i said 'her guy sounds more sensible' Not our sad little chihiro.

OK Kelley - we can go back to the time when everything i said you agreed with :

SELAM LYNDIE

OK NO PROBLEM I LIKE IT BETTER THAT WAY!

THANKS DOLL YOU REALLY HAVE WONDERFUL ADVICE AND

YOU ARE ALSO EDUCATED IN PSYCOLOGY TOO RIGHT? IF NOT YOU

SURE SEEM TO KNOW IT ALL HAVE YOU SPOKE TO

THE CHIHARO? I AM WORRIED ABOUT HER. HOPE SHE IS

WELL! CHECK IN LITTLE CHIHARO....................

TAKE CARE LYNDIE BYESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Peace & Love
& Happiness to all,

Tsarevna Stacia

Kelley

Relly thanks for all..... i think i could carry on with your supports..thanks...

Thanks Kelley,
I am educated in psychology (and some say that I am a 'know all' )
I am also a counsellor in my job.

all u have to do, is be very strong..
the day i left my bf in trabzon airport after our beautiful holiday in my village... omg... it was one of the hardest things if not, the hardest thing i have ever had to do in my whole life. that last split second, where my hand touched his for the last time until the next time i see him. actually having him in my arms a few moments before,and at last being alone. yet again, leaving turkey behind me. and walking through those gates by myself... away from everything i loved and desired for.
but now i know, always thinking like this, just makes one feel so much worse... and it doesnt get one anywhere, apart from in a terrible state where u just want to forget everything, even life.
feeling like this, actually caused my bf to try and commit suicide on sevral occassions. he always talked about killing himslef because he didnt want to carry on without me, he told me how he used to walk to school, and see the cars speeding accross the road next to him, and what would happen if he just jumped in front of one. and then there were the times where all i could do was watch himslit his arms on the webcam because he said that he loved me so much, would do anything and everything for me, and didnt want to carry on now that i had left him. and then there was the overdose... yeah... and even though deep down, i knew that he was only doing all of these things because of how much he cared about me, there became a point where i just thought, "omg, what if somthing ever went wrong? would he just want to kill hiself? do i always have tolive in fear of what he might doif i ever stopped loving him?" and thats when i made him promise to me that he would never do anything like this again. and i too know, that suicide is not the answer. im sure god didnt give us the gift of life so we could kill ourselves. its definitely not an option one should consider. and i made my bf realise this. i told him that we have to be patient, belive in ourselves and have trust in god and we will then have whatever we desire. and although living without him is hard, i understand that at the moment there is nothing i can do, apart from what has been forementioned...

Never have a thought of marrying a man who says he isn'T ready. That's why men are supposed to propose marriage. You get? Because before 30s, for men themselves are the center of their lifes, their carrier, building up their future, their social position etc...are the most important. Having a woman as a life partner is deifnitely the second step. I think men are very selfish at the age of 20s. They never want to feel a pressure, they can't do sacrificies that cost to their change of life. And if he says this himself, believe him about this, maybe he will change in 5 years, who knows, but don't fall in the mistake of planning a marriage. Always wait from him to mention marriage, never open the subject of marriage, or you can lose him even if he's in love with you. When woman is in love, she's always ready to marry, but not a man. Alas...

20..wonderful age when you madly fall in love,think that he is whole world and 30 is declining yearsyou have to get through that.and may be you shouldn't accuse your boyfriend because he is honest with you and he confesses to that now he is not ready for marriage.
and as for 30 there is good russian film "moscow doesn't believe in tears" and heroine says "the life just is starting in 40 years. now i know it certianly"

ceyda i think you exaggerate everything like that subject...i dont believe you are in london...you are a typical turkish girl .... consequently as as as as

Miss Ceyda:

I really like reading your posts, because of my enquiring mind. I did not think Turkish girls had such strong characters and opinions. Maybe from a lot of Turkish men ignoring women in their company.

I'm glad I have found out, the women are not as vulnerable and over-ruled by men.

hehe thanks for your comment...
i dont know if all turkish girls are like that...

i think that im just me

Ladies of all nations...hear me !

DEEP TURKISH WISDOM ON LOVE AND WHAT MAY FOLLOW

I will tell you what 'love' (aşk) is, the few but strict rules around it, when and why it ends, and what happens to those loves that do not end. (wait for the moderator's objections, corrections and explanations; they will follow immediately afterwards)

1. LOVE is a time span in which two adults of preferably opposite sexes will both (RECIPROCALLY) feel an uncontrolable, and absolutely overflowing urge to discover each other, in every possible detail. This sudden urge has nothing to do with mind or intellect: It springs straight from one's heart and sends shivers to every single bone in one's body. In fact Turks go as far as admitting that LOVE is blind.

The important word in the above paragraph is RECIPROCALLY. A sudden uncontrollable desire to discover another person is not LOVE, unless it is reciprocally responded. Such one sided affairs are called KARA SEVDA in the old wise language of Turks: it is a form of illness, and must be treated immediately.

2. Almost all LOVES end, when there is nothing left to discover any more. It is luckily not the end of the world; Intelligent discoverers immediately embark on another expedition.

3. Rarely though, ordinary love qualifies to a higher level of feelings. It is amazing that the English Language does not recognize this elevated stage, and still calls it LOVE. Wiser Turks call it SEVGİ. SEVGİ is the stage where reciprocality requirement of LOVE disappears, as the the two parties of LOVE merge into a single being. They become 'one'. SEVGİ is for eternity.

Ladies! now that you know the rules and definitions. Go and love somebody. Do not despair if your love ends. Go look for another. In the mean time, train yourselves so that you will be capable of recognizing SEVGİ, should it ever appear on your door step.

a little simplistic perhaps but i like where your coming from!

A friend of mine once said " I found Miss.Right and married her, never realised her full name was Miss. Always Right"

Excellent philosophy AlphaF:

Yes.. i like that theory of ASK and SEVGI.. but i think in this case ASK is more like.. infatuation.. and sevgi like LOVE.

It cannot be stated that English word for love is not specific enough, because this depends on how and by whome used.

But i must say, i like it when languages are specific about feeligns and words, like turkish

In Holland, it is often said that one first falls in love, then loves, and when one loves, still sometimes falls deeper in love at special moments, such as a surprise flower on an ordinary day tho ur already toegther for many many years. The excited young in love feeling disapears, this is only because our body can no longer produce those feelings (!!) because it is tiring, but they still come up every now and then on special occasions. And i think that is eternity, sevgi.

Can it be said that you should be thankful for the day your love says SEVGILIM to you instead of ASKIM? Or is ASKIM just as powerful as SEVGILIM?

Deli_kizin

1) That "aşk" is infatuation is NOT correct. "AŞK" is basically a mutual desire between two willing adults to discover each other. The urge is overwhelming, but must necessarily be reciprocal.

"Infatuation" is closer to "KARA SEVDA".

2) Academically speaking "aşkım" is a term of endearment, suitable for preliminary volatile exploration stages, while the term "sevgilim" relates to a higher relationship. Some people may tell you that the opposite is true, or that the terms are equal alternatives, but dont take them seriously.

The moral of my theory is that " all ladies should keep a certain mystical, inaccessible, hard to discover territory about themselves, until they decide to end a running love affair."

BELIEVE IT, OR NOT !

Doesnt Sevgi include sexuality then? Because sexuality stays important when u go further into a relationship. When you feel your souls are one, i cant think that you wouldnt want to make love to eachother anymore.. Or would that be make sevgi to eachother

To me sexuality is included in love in a relatiobship.
Not in other kinds of love, such as in friendhsip and family-love. But for man-woman relationship (or man-man, woman-woman), sexuality is included in love and therefore is just IN the word love.

deli_kizin

cyrano is talking through his nose...

With reference to Turkish language, legal sensual relations between a gentleman and a lady can broadly fall into one of the following categories,
- Casual and circumstantial intimacy,
- Aşk
- Sevgi
every one of them has sexual overtones.

There are however, other man-woman interfaces where mutual fondness is natural, but sensual overtones are either illegal or simply unwelcome, ie., like between close relatives or co-workers. There are suitable (non-sensual) terms of endearment in such cases as well, but both AŞKIM and SEVGİLİM should be avoided.

NOW YOU KNOW WHAT THE GAME IS, NEXT TIME SOMEONE CALLS YOU "AŞKIM" or "SEVGİLİM"....

Dear AlphaF,
Thank You for your great explanation. I think i will be never mislead now in a love relationship with a Turkish boyfriend.

Cyrano....try your Turkish on this,

Karına da, kuzuna da sevgi duyabilirsin...ikinciye sex karıştırmasan iyi olur !

Cyrano,
you are way out of your depth.......

So.. do i understand it right if i say that.. a relationship with a lover is a good one if it has both ASK and SEVGI?

Is it like, if you found your lifepartner, the one you want to marry.. SEVGI is always there, as a binding thing between the two of you. A magical, not touchable string that keeps you together as one. And sometimes ASK comes up in times of tickles in your belly or feeling to make love?

I'm trying my best to understand But it is quite difficult, not being perfect at English or Turkish !

deli_kizin,

AN ANALOGY TO EXPLAIN "AŞK" AND "SEVGİ" IN THE CONTEXT OF TURKISH LANGUAGE AND AS THEY APPLY TO MAN-WOMAN RELATIONSHIPS

Let us consider a group of students in a chemistry lab; all trying to invent a nice drink by mixing two different ingredients. The two ingredients are supplied in equal amounts (say 2 liters of each ingredient) to each student and each student is expected to produce exactly one liter of the final experimental drink. Ingredients are identical for all, but proportion of each ingredient in the final mix is left to each student's own choice.

Assume then that whatever proportion of each ingredient a student wishes to use in his final product, he ends up with a reasonably pleasant drink (the tastes may differ, but all are pleasant)..the catch being that all mixtures remain drinkable for only a period of 2 hours from the experiment, after which the mixtures get stale and become undrinkable. In this analogy, the mixture that can remain pleasantly drinkable for 2 hours after its creation represents AŞK.

Assume further that by fate, luck or some divine guidance (whatever you want to call it) very few students hit a certain (magic) mix ratio of the two ingredients that though initially produces a drink comperable to others', their product turns into brandy after two hours ...never to go stale, but continiue to mature forever afterwards. This is SEVGİ.

As you will notice dear, every body ends up with something pleasant to drink. Some have two hours to enjoy it, some a life time.

I hope this replies your query.