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Shortened form of future tense
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20.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:05 pm

Quoting erdinc:

ile : with



That's what I though! So perhaps the sentence I wrote is completely wrong and you think I mean something different!!!

Bugün zeytinlar ve kızarmış etmek kahvaltı ettim

"I had olives and toast for my breakfast today"

21.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:16 pm

Quote:

Bugün zeytinlar ve kızarmış etmek kahvaltı ettim


"I had olives and toast for my breakfast today"

kızarmış etmek > should be : kızarmış ekmek

Sorry bod, there is a difference between languages. You are having breakfast while we DO (etmek) it.

Kahvaltı etmek: literally means to do breakfast thus the ile suits better.

Also like milk and beer va have seen before olives needs to be singular.

a. Bugün zeytin ve kızarmış ekmek ile kahvaltı ettim.
b. Bugün zeytin ve kızarmış ekmekle kahvaltı ettim.
c. Bugün kahvaltıda zeytin ve kızarmış ekmek yedim.

22.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:24 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Sorry bod, there is a difference between languages. You are having breakfast while we DO (etmek) it.



Thanks!

Is this true for all meals? Is it DO dinner and DO lunch etc or does that just relate to breakfast?

Saat biryi on seciz geçiyor (13:18)

23.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:30 pm

Quoting bod:



We do the breakfast and we eat the lunch or dinner. So we would say, "Öğlen yemeğinde döner yedim".

Kahvaltı ediyorum.
Öğlen yemeği yiyiyorum.
Akşam yemeği yiyiyorum.


Saat biryi on seciz geçiyor (13:18)


Saat biri on sekiz geçiyor.

24.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 03:43 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Öğlen yemeği yiyiyorum.
Akşam yemeği yiyiyorum.



What is the imperative from which yiyiyorum is derived?
I am guessing yi-y-iyor-um but cannot find yimek

Saat ikiye yirmi iki var (13:38)

25.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 07:29 pm

yiyiyorum comes from yemek. The verb stem is ye. Because it is irregular it doesnt become yiyor as it should be.

yiyiyorum : yi + y + iyor +um > verb stem + buffer + present continuous tense + personal suffix

All the souces disagree with me and show yemek as a regular verb. Winmekmak, the verb conjugator website below and most importantly TDK is suggestion "yiyor" like "yemek yiyorum". I disagree. I think the correct one should be "yemek yiyiyorum" but you might as well join the opposite as it is the majority.

http://www.tdk.org.tr/TDKSOZLUK/SOZBUL.ASP?kelime=yemek
http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/cache/31.yemek.shtml

And this is my explanation on
PRESENT CONTINUOUS TENSE SUFFIXES:

For this tense we have the following suffixes:
-ıyor
-iyor
-uyor
-üyor
-yor

The dictionary form of a verb in Turkish is the infinitive which has -mak or -mek at the end. If we drop -mak or -mek we get the verb stem or verb base. Either the verb stem is ending with a consonant or with a vowel. So we have two options. Lets start with the first:

I. If the verb stem ends with a consonant we have these options:

-ıyor
-iyor
-uyor
-üyor

You simple look at the last vowel and choose the correct suffixes. Here is the last vowel -suffix chart:

1. a > -ıyor
2. ı > -ıyor

3. e > -iyor
4. i > -iyor

5. o > -uyor
6. u > -uyor

7. ö > -üyor
8. ü > -üyor

Example:
bilmek :
-What is the verb stem?
-It is "bil".
-What is the last vowel in "bil"?
-It is "i".
-What suffix do we use for "i"?
-We use -iyor.
-So what does it become?
-It becomes "bil + iyor"


Konuşmak:
-What is the verb stem?
-It is "konuş".
-What is the last vowel in "konuş"?
-It is "u".
-What suffix do we use for "u"?
-We use -uyor.
-So what is it at the end?
- It is konuş + uyor


II. If the verb stem ends with a vowel the present continuous tense suffix is "-yor". But before you add yor check below if you have to change the last vowel or not.

If it ends with

1. a > changes to ı
yaşamak > yaşa > yaşı > yaşı + yor

2. e > changes to i
dinlemek > dinle > dinli > dinli + yor

3. ı > no change
tanımak > tanı > tanı + yor

4. i > no change
erimek > eri > eri + yor

5. o > impossible condition
No example for this. Verb stem has to end with a vowel and this vowel has to be o. I think this condition is non-existant.
We don't have o and ö after the first syllable. So it has to be a single syllabling verb stem ending with "o" which I can't think of any.

6. u > no change
korumak > koru > koru + yor

7. ö > impossible condition
Again I think non-existant. The verb stem has to end with a vowel and this vowel has to be ö. I can't think of any example. We dont have ö or o after first syllable. It could be OK if it had been in the a single syllabling verb stem but doesnt seem any.

8. ü > no change
yürümek > yürü > yürü + yor

Exercise:
demek > What is the present continous of it? Follow section II. to solve it.

26.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 07:48 pm

Quoting erdinc:

yiyiyorum comes from yemek. The verb stem is ye. Because it is irregular it doesnt become yiyor as it should be.

yiyiyorum : yi + y + iyor +um > verb stem + buffer + present continuous tense + personal suffix

All the souces disagree with me and show yemek as a regular verb. Winmekmak, the verb conjugator website below and most importantly TDK is suggestion "yiyor" like "yemek yiyorum". I disagree. I think the correct one should be "yemek yiyiyorum" but you might as well join the opposite as it is the majority.

http://www.tdk.org.tr/TDKSOZLUK/SOZBUL.ASP?kelime=yemek
http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/cache/31.yemek.shtml

And this is my explanation on
PRESENT CONTINUOUS TENSE SUFFIXES:

For this tense we have the following suffixes:
-ıyor
-iyor
-uyor
-üyor
-yor

The dictionary form of a verb in Turkish is the infinitive which has -mak or -mek at the end. If we drop -mak or -mek we get the verb stem or verb base. Either the verb stem is ending with a consonant or with a vowel. So we have two options. Lets start with the first:

I. If the verb stem ends with a consonant we have these options:

-ıyor
-iyor
-uyor
-üyor

You simple look at the last vowel and choose the correct suffixes. Here is the last vowel -suffix chart:

1. a > -ıyor
2. ı > -ıyor

3. e > -iyor
4. i > -iyor

5. o > -uyor
6. u > -uyor

7. ö > -üyor
8. ü > -üyor

Example:
bilmek :
-What is the verb stem?
-It is "bil".
-What is the last vowel in "bil"?
-It is "i".
-What suffix do we use for "i"?
-We use -iyor.
-So what does it become?
-It becomes "bil + iyor"


Konuşmak:
-What is the verb stem?
-It is "konuş".
-What is the last vowel in "konuş"?
-It is "u".
-What suffix do we use for "u"?
-We use -uyor.
-So what is it at the end?
- It is konuş + uyor


II. If the verb stem ends with a vowel the present continuous tense suffix is "-yor". But before you add yor check below if you have to change the last vowel or not.

If it ends with

1. a > changes to ı
yaşamak > yaşa > yaşı > yaşı + yor

2. e > changes to i
dinlemek > dinle > dinli > dinli + yor

3. ı > no change
tanımak > tanı > tanı + yor

4. i > no change
erimek > eri > eri + yor

5. o > impossible condition
No example for this. Verb stem has to end with a vowel and this vowel has to be o. I think this condition is non-existant.
We don't have o and ö after the first syllable. So it has to be a single syllabling verb stem ending with "o" which I can't think of any.

6. u > no change
korumak > koru > koru + yor

7. ö > impossible condition
Again I think non-existant. The verb stem has to end with a vowel and this vowel has to be ö. I can't think of any example. We dont have ö or o after first syllable. It could be OK if it had been in the a single syllabling verb stem but doesnt seem any.

8. ü > no change
yürümek > yürü > yürü + yor

Exercise:
demek > What is the present continous of it? Follow section II. to solve it.



That's a very interesting explanation......
We totally agree about verb stems ending with a consonant - but I apply a slightly different rule to verb stems ending with a vowel.......but we will always get the same answer - it is just a way of thinking about the same thing!

27.       bod
5999 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:03 pm

Quoting erdinc:

All the souces disagree with me and show yemek as a regular verb. Winmekmak, the verb conjugator website below and most importantly TDK is suggestion "yiyor" like "yemek yiyorum". I disagree. I think the correct one should be "yemek yiyiyorum" but you might as well join the opposite as it is the majority.



Is there not a single definitive source of what is 'real' Türkçe and what isn't in much the same way as English has the Oxford English Dictionary whose members decide what is 'real' English and what isn't. If something is listed as being English by OED then you cannot argue against it as it is definitively English!

Of course, such a definitive language source is not always representitive of the language in common daily usage but it does provide a common anchor point for the language. The only arguements are over what should be included in the definition but once they are in they are absolute until removed!

28.       erdinc
2151 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:18 pm

There is no confusion with verb stems ending with a vowel. It is all within the rules shown above. I think there are not many exceptions. In fact I cant think of any except yemek.

The TDK is the official organisation on this subject but unfortunately not very spot on all the time. I disagree with TDK on the following words where the first is TDK's suggestion.

yiyor - yiyiyor
entelektüel - entellektüel
sağ ol - sağol
hoşÃ§a kal - hoşÃ§akal

English in its history had also some changes but these are spread to a wider time range and things are more sattled down. On the other hand Turkish had lots of changes during the last 80 years and still it continues.
In Turkish a 30 year old book can be very difficult to read depending on the author.
I also understand you on following the official suggestion but I would like take more time before doing so. They are making some suggestions and with time the daily usage may change according their suggestions. So their suggestion might have acceptance. Of course this is not always the case.

29.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 09 Jan 2006 Mon 08:39 pm

Quoting erdinc:


yiyor - yiyiyor
entelektüel - entellektüel
sağ ol - sağol
hoşÃ§a kal - hoşÃ§akal



I wonder why you disagree on yiyor and think it should be yiyiyor. Isn't the main-idea behind the vowel-harmony rules that it's easy to pronounce and is in harmony with the rest of the word? This idea makes it logical to drop the -yi- because that's more annoying to pronounce.

I guess it also has to do with the pronuncation of people, which makes language alter thru the years.
Ben çok iyiyim is sometimes also pronounced as i'im


30.       bod
5999 posts
 02 May 2006 Tue 04:01 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting erdinc:


yiyor - yiyiyor
entelektüel - entellektüel
sağ ol - sağol
hoşÃ§a kal - hoşÃ§akal



I wonder why you disagree on yiyor and think it should be yiyiyor. Isn't the main-idea behind the vowel-harmony rules that it's easy to pronounce and is in harmony with the rest of the word? This idea makes it logical to drop the -yi- because that's more annoying to pronounce.



Yes - I wonder the same thing......

Also, why should yemek be the only verb to be so treated??? I think I can understand the logic that yemek has a single syllable verb stem that ends in a vowel and that might cause another language rule to come into play......but yemek is not the only verb to have a single syllable verb stem that ends in a vowel.

How would you put demek into first person present continuous tense???
diyorum or diyiyorum ???

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