Quoting catwoman:

You made a very good point Ghost! However, why isn't there an equal or preferably a louder criticism (since it's a bigger problem) of the MALE drink/casual sex culture? These are double standards!

Quoting mltm:

There was not a generalization of western women. There are millions of western women coming to pass their holidays in Turkey and do not experience anything like this. The morals of these men for sure are very disgusting, if they listened to what the book of İslam said, they would not do so many immoral things (I said this because you noted that they are muslims).

But I usually feel that while you wrongly blame us defending these men, you have a tendancy to protect the women. Most of these women do not have morals either (there must be exceptions), but I do not judge them, it's their lives, they have fun, but they are not victims at all.

Anyway, during summer the natives of these resort cities are not happy to see these people (both men and women) either. I'm happy that I live far away from these places.

As been said, I also want that some measures be taken by the responsables, and these workers work in a more disciplined way.

Quoting Ghost:

Good point . Well...I guess I didn't want to add a THIRD factor into the argument! The MALE drink/casual sex culture has been around a lot longer! The more recent trend for this amongst females means they are vulnerable to sexual assult and, because of the global mysogynistic attitudes, open to more ridicule.

The reason I was only commenting on the females was because it was used as part of the "defence" against those poor, hard done by, innocent Turkish tourist workers

Quoting catwoman:

For one, I am glad that women are drinking and having sex freely, with whomever they want. At least in the western democratic countries, rape is punished and women stand up a little bit for their rights (instead of defending their oppressors). First of all, it brought public debate to these issues (though as we see HERE, it usually refers to women!, but at least some also shed a light on men too). Secondly, some men realized that this attitude is wrong because they finally experienced what it's like to be cheated on or when the woman spends most of the time for her own pleasure. Only positives! As you said, in all that women are not manipulators and liers.

Quoting Ghost:

Well I agree in principle. I would have agreed FULLY with you until a few years ago Catwoman. Until you have SEEN FOR YOURSELF the extent of binge drinking in the UK and the culture it has created, you won't know what I'm talking about. Its unique to the UK as far as I can tell. These are not assertive, confident women doing what the hell they like. These are binge-drinking drunks who play the silly vulnerable girl role to the dominant males in this u-turn in female liberation.

Going out, drinking, making sexual choices for yourself for your own pleasure - IS GREAT. This is another thing entirely. I am pretty sure other UK classmates would agree with me.

Quoting alameda:

My point is that it happens and has taken place in all classes, all cultures and throughout all time. It is about the use of that vulnerability for personal gain with little regard for well being of the object of exploitation

Quoting Ghost:

Quoting mltm: