General/Off-topic |
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please, dont betray us!
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| 60. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 02:10 am |
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Very well said peace train. 
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| 61. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 02:14 am |
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Yes, well done peace train!
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| 62. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 02:15 am |
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Quoting peace train:
Many women in history have put their lives on the line for women like me. And there are probably still women doing it today in eastern societies. I applaud them.
These words don’t seem enough somehow.
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Yes, one was assasinated just today.
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| 63. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 02:27 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting alameda: Hmmm....Femme...I didn't realize you are so sensitive. It's just your method of communicating is sometimes very brash and abrasive. It causes people to react in a negative manner.
I realize your command of the English language is not that sophisticated, but you really have been making quite amazing improvements. I tip my virtual hat to you! |
Predictably patronising....I am suprised you didn't include a link?  |
I actually think Alameda has a valid point of view here. Although I don't agree that femme's choice of language is because of her skill in it. 
Aenigma, you are biased and mean for no good reason.
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| 64. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 06:58 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Aenigma, you are biased and mean for no good reason. |
That is your opinion 
However. as English is not Femme's native language, then I think Alemeda's comment WAS patronising. In my opinion I am not biased and I have good reason 
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| 65. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 07:05 am |
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Quoting peace train: Femme posted :
this is an appeal to the western women.
please, dont betray us!
we are just fighting our way to the freedom and equality.
some of us have opened eyes from the darkness we were born to, where we were taught that we are less valuable than men.
where we are still not more than a simple cloth or furniture.
if we want to say anything from ourselves, they (the society) immediately condemn us for being rebels or disobeying the customs and traditions set by men and for men.
we are trapped in our culture, our men dont support us (even those who are educated and open-minded).
we dont ask you to do anything for us.
we just ask you to consider before clapping your hands toward traditions that opress us.
we know that you live in free societies where you enjoy your rights, but pretending that you are a loving person tolerating every culture does harm to us eastern women!
please, wear our shoes for a second then leave your ideas.
thank you for your cooperation!
end of quote
Well I wore your shoes for a while today.
I have thought a great deal about what you have said. I read all the posts on the threads and other discussions from past threads with a similar theme. I wondered how any amount of discussions (some of which tend to descend into arguments) could help women in such a terrible predicament.
I thought about how inadequate I feel because I’m not the activist that so many women around the world are. I thought about my female friends from Turkey, Pakistan, India and Iraq (some with scarf, some without) and my female western friends (some tied to the kitchen sink and some not). I wrote many words, citing examples of how my non british origin friends are very strong women and how myself and my white british friends were raised by our parents in an intrinsically male dominated society. I think I was trying to say that women all over the world suffer, obviously some much more than others, depending on where they live. I have personal examples of how my own life has been affected, in the past, by men, both in the home and at work. But in the end I cut this short because none of it is relevant to the plight of the women referred to in the post.
I read the post again and noticed:
“we dont ask you to do anything for us.
we just ask you to consider before clapping your hands toward traditions that opress us.
we know that you live in free societies where you enjoy your rights, but pretending that you are a loving person tolerating every culture does harm to us eastern women!â€
I want you to know that I would never clap my hands about such a serious predicament many women find themselves in (this is not an angry tone but a sincere one – I am giving you my assurance). I'm not an activist in the sense that I don't go on demonstrations or belong to some kind of society but I do speak up for the rights of women when the opportunity presents itself.
The very end of your post made me remember something that was once said to me many years ago. I was attending a course about the teaching of Religious Education (I am not an R.E. teacher though). The word ‘tolerate’ was discussed and the course leader warned that this word could be quite dangerous and went on to give an example of someone (I will not say who) whose beliefs/practices/views should not be tolerated. I have always remembered that and it was good to hear you say a similar thing.
I think people who stand up to be counted deserve admiration. Many women in history have put their lives on the line for women like me. And there are probably still women doing it today in eastern societies. I applaud them.
These words don’t seem enough somehow.
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Wonderful
(in contrast to your previous post!  )
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| 66. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 10:27 am |
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Quoting peace train: But in the end I cut this short because none of it is relevant to the plight of the women referred to in the post.
I read the post again and noticed:
“we dont ask you to do anything for us.
we just ask you to consider before clapping your hands toward traditions that opress us.
we know that you live in free societies where you enjoy your rights, but pretending that you are a loving person tolerating every culture does harm to us eastern women!â€
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Well done peacetrain ...
I agree with the initial post from Femme TOTALLY.
I also agree with you that we have to do more than just talk about womens rights, we need to work to:
(a) help those who are suffering injustice by offering them coping mechanisms or ways out of the situation
(b) campaign and work towards the removal of these injustices.
One of the best ways is through solidarity organizations, supporting things where the women are trying to help themselves e.g. mor çatı project in Istanbul (a safe house), nuying gift items from womens cooperatives (e.g. Artisans lane, where all the workers are women from a poor area of Istanbul) etc. The advantage with this is it is not us handing out advice and donations from a superior position, but empowering people who are trying to make their own way out of this problem.
The same is true for children's rights, religious rights etc etc. I admire the work of the Sokak Çocuklar Derneği (Street Childrens Project) and the project 0-18 they have set up with some other organisations. It does 3 things: campaign for childrens rights to be reflected in legislation, educate parents against beating their kids, and has a support telephone number for abused kids to ring and talk to someone.
Let us all SPEAK OUT and WORK TOGETHER to empower those who are suffering to find solutions.
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| 67. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 02:58 pm |
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Thanks for the positive comments but they really weren’t necessary.
I wish I knew how to quote people’s comments when there’s no quote button can somebody out there help? Anyway, forgive my crude attempt at quoting people here.
Quoting Aenigma III
“To our dear Femme haters. It takes a brave person to stand up, speak up and say what they believe in and not give a damn what people think of you. “
End of quote
Oh dear I am lecturing you again Aenigma (but I do it with a broad smile on my face, knowing it will make you reach for the cream bun gun  . Aenigma, your comment is true, but only if what the person has to say is not loaded with cynicism, arrogance and barbed comments designed only to cause an argument rather than meaningful discussion. If people aren’t careful and don’t “give a damn†then they run the risk of not being taken seriously when they have something heartfelt to say. Hmmm. . . I better be careful, I am sounding arrogant . I better duck as I feel treacle pudding is aimed at my head . “Smart Alec†comments are ten a penny but sincere heartfelt comments are worth their weight in gold as they truly make people think. Thank you Femme.
Quoting Aenigma III
“The problem is that, in general, people want an easy life. They want to feel sympathy but don’t want to cause offence. They want a "cause" which means donating a small amount of money towards something to ease their conscience so they can forget about it again.â€
End of quote.
That’s a HUGE ASSUMPTION to make and an easy, cynical throw away comment that many people have made before you. Have you not heard the TESCO catch phrase? “Every little helps†. Of course if the charities weren’t set up in the first place there would be nowhere to send all those millions of small amounts of money . . . silly charitable organizations! What must they have been thinking! Shame on them for trying to extract money from poor unsuspecting, unconsious Joe Public. Oh and shame on the young children who “Children in Need†and “Comic Relief†then send their small amount (huge to them) of pocket money in. People who give money to good causes aren’t forced to do so, they make a choice, for whatever reason and however small the amount, it does make a difference.
Quoting Aenigma III
“When you see something unjust, unfair and cruel for REAL you forget politeness - you just want ACTION FAST!. Bob Geldof reacted the same way and created LiveAid. His determination made him rude, insulting, demanding and arrogant....and he MADE A DIFFERENCE. “
End of quote
You are right, sometimes “you just want ACTION FAST!†and he used his fame in a good way and he is still doing it today . . . he has to because he knows that a steady drip of cash is required to keep the charity fund topped up and he is grateful for every penny, whatever the sentiment (or lack of it as you seem to think in some cases) attached.
You may think this is a personal attack on your views Aenigma but it really isn’t. It’s not your views that bother me, it’s the way you sometimes put them across. The irony is you get so touchy with people when they use the same argumentative tactics as yourself.
I wonder if you ever watch the Catherine Tate show . . . there is a character she created and she plays the game “last hit†. . . well when I watch that, I think of you and your friends and SOME (some . . . I say some of your squabbles. Yes I know that they are not all squabbles.
I think I’ve added a pinch cynicism, a dash of arrogance and a grain of sarcasm. All done purposefully, just to show how easy such negative tactics can be produced. Thanks for the flowers, but they really weren’t necessary. I think you got completely the wrong end of the stick from our recent exchange of words.
Qutoing Aenigma III
Thank God for people like that.
God!
End of quote
Is there something you’re not telling us?
Hope you are recovering well from your illness.
I feel a Catherine Tate moment approaching but this time you may be armed with cream bun gun . . . just remember Aenigma . . . all of the above is “friendly fireâ€
I got carried away with the Catherine Tate sketches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNBI1JCAbnU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEX5PqvP6zE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25NIKR8IwM
Addendum: Dear TC Police. Hope this post doesn’t offend you or contravene any rules. I'm trying to make friends (I think).
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| 69. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 04:41 pm |
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Quoting peace train: The irony is you get so touchy with people when they use the same argumentative tactics as yourself. |
Peace train! Your comments were not rambling and I agree with you, well said!
Here's something femme wrote about Aenigma a little while ago:
Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: changing camps each hour.
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The camps are only those of your own creation . |
you cant stand my opinion? you wanted it. whats the matter with you? do you need to defend yourself?
the thing is that you cant stand criticism.
you are unstable changing camps each hour, (camps are ideoligies), cant trust you.
you love when people speak only sweet things about you.
you cant live in this illusion, can you?
if you cannot bear the criticism then dont ask for opinions (esp. mine).
are you ok now?
you still love me tender? |
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| 70. |
28 Dec 2007 Fri 04:54 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Dearest Peacetrain,
Thank you for your long and somewhat rambling reply to my post! You have your opinion and I have mine - why should you think I would attack you for it? Criticising my view is NOT personal - you cannot "personally criticise" somebody elses views!!!!
With regard to Femme, agree or disagree (I am sure she doesn't give a damn!). You can choose not to read her posts or you can argue your point. However for a couple of members to launch some ridiculous "campaign" to ask people to vote if she should be deleted is childish and weak!
Thank you for all the time and trouble you are spending on me lately
Yes I feel much better today thank you
AEnigma
(PS I am sure I know you from somewhere - did you used to use a different name? ) |
And what makes it rambling, the fact that a few home truths are being aired or cos you are running a temperature?
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