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A Feminist Islamic Reform in Turkey
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| 1. |
04 Feb 2008 Mon 11:40 pm |
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It is no accident that Turkey is the place where the traditional sharia is being reconsidered. The process of modernizing Islam, which dates in Turkey from the late Ottoman Empire, has accelerated since the 1980s, when Turkish society began to open. Since then, a flourishing Muslim bourgeoisie has emerged, and members are wittily called "Islamic Calvinists" for their religiously inspired capitalism. This has given rise to a new social atmosphere: In modern Turkey, you see models parading down the catwalk in fancy headscarves and Koranic courses promoted by clowns handing out ice cream. Muslim politicians such as Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul repeatedly stress the need for change in the Islamic world.
These reform-minded Muslims are not secularists who want to do away with religion. On the contrary, they want to reinterpret Islam because they believe that its divinely ordained, humane and generous essence has been eclipsed by mortal man´s erroneous traditions and ideologies.
This is crucial because only such godly reformists have a chance to appeal to more traditional members of their faith. Since the 19th century, traditional Muslims have felt forced to choose between their faith and modernity — a dilemma that has been fueling a reactionary strain of radical Islam. The Islamic world needs an alternative — a path between godless modernity and anti-modern bigotry. With its revision of the traditional Islamic sources and with its rising Muslimhood that embraces democracy and open society, Turkey may just be opening the way. The West should be taking notice — and encouraging other Muslim countries to take inspiration from Turkey´s moderate course.
http://www.thewhitepath.com/archives/2006/07/a_feminist_islamic_reform_in_turkey.php
Posted by Mustafa Akyol at July 19, 2006
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| 2. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:49 am |
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What they need are imams like AlphaF, everybody would enjoy the big surprise !
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| 3. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 02:01 am |
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Quoting Roswitha: "Women are imperfect in intellect and religion."
"The best of women are those who are like sheep."
"If a woman doesn't satisfy her husband's desires, she should choose herself a place in hell."
"If a husband's body is covered with pus and his wife licks it clean, she still wouldn't have paid her dues."
"Your prayer will be invalid if a donkey, black dog or a woman passes in front of you." |
Whoever said this is either mentally ill or is/was one of the most hateful creatures ever.
If islam REALLY has these phrases in its dogma/religious text... than I'm at a loss of words to describe how hideous it is. I cannot imagine why any woman would follow such a religion. 
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| 4. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 02:21 am |
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why the foreign people in this site are generally very interested in Turkey's internal problems? i wonder quite a lot. just like this topic, turban problem etc...
interesting...
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| 5. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 02:29 am |
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Quoting adonis: why the foreign people in this site are generally very interested in Turkey's internal problems? i wonder quite a lot. just like this topic, turban problem etc...
interesting... |
don't you feel special? 
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| 6. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 02:51 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting adonis: why the foreign people in this site are generally very interested in Turkey's internal problems? i wonder quite a lot. just like this topic, turban problem etc...
interesting... |
don't you feel special? |
I absolutely don't feel special. Everybody should consider or mind their own motherland's internal problems. i feel that there's a tendency to make fun of and to gossip the problems of Turkey instead of living or having a holiday in here. these kind of tendencies can occur some misuderstandings.
this is my opinion...
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| 7. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 02:52 am |
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Quoting adonis: I absolutely don't feel special. Everybody should consider or mind their own motherland's internal problems. i feel that there's a tendency to make fun of and to gossip the problems of Turkey instead of living or having a holiday in here. these kind of tendencies can occur some misuderstandings.
this is my opinion... |
I will wait until you begin to comment about the US or EU. 
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| 8. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 03:01 am |
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Quoting adonis:
Everybody should consider or mind their own motherland's internal problems. i feel that there's a tendency to make fun of and to gossip the problems of Turkey instead of living or having a holiday in here. these kind of tendencies can occur some misuderstandings.
this is my opinion... |
I just wonder if this opinion only extends to foreigner's discussing things in the political arena or if you also believe foriegner's should mind thier own problems when it comes to things like earthquakes, floods and other disasters. Should we stay out of your business then too or is it ok for us to "help out"?
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| 9. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 03:05 am |
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No, no, no... it's completely FINE when we PRAISE Turkey, but not quite as ok to criticize, that's the issue. 
Of course it only applies to people criticizing Turkey not Turks criticizing other countries - this is a very important point.
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| 10. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:22 am |
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Quoting adonis: why the foreign people in this site are generally very interested in Turkey's internal problems? i wonder quite a lot. just like this topic, turban problem etc...
interesting... |
Are you also inteested? Why dont you talk about their countries too?
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| 11. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:03 am |
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Quoting adonis:
I absolutely don't feel special. Everybody should consider or mind their own motherland's internal problems. i feel that there's a tendency to make fun of and to gossip the problems of Turkey instead of living or having a holiday in here. these kind of tendencies can occur some misuderstandings.
this is my opinion... |
Actually, I believe most people here got interested in Turkey because they went on holiday there (or fell in love with a Turk). See, some people go on holiday and see just the beaches, resorts and folklore sold in street-stalls. However, others get interested in the country - economy, politics and religion. This Forum is for people like this, we have a genuine interest in your country. If we laugh or are being sarcastic about some aspects of it, it is merely because how we perceive it from our perspective. Don't worry though, it won't stop us from having a holiday there
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| 12. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:49 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting Roswitha: "Women are imperfect in intellect and religion."
"The best of women are those who are like sheep."
"If a woman doesn't satisfy her husband's desires, she should choose herself a place in hell."
"If a husband's body is covered with pus and his wife licks it clean, she still wouldn't have paid her dues."
"Your prayer will be invalid if a donkey, black dog or a woman passes in front of you." |
If islam REALLY has these phrases in its dogma/religious text... than I'm at a loss of words to describe how hideous it is. I cannot imagine why any woman would follow such a religion. |
Certainly true Islam does not contain such terms and chatter. This tendentious work and people with weak hearts to distort Islam ,so Muslim intellectuals have long argued that the hadiths should be revised
so please do not ratify anything Saying about Islam only after ascertaining
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| 13. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:03 pm |
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It is a very interesting article indeed. And also, because it is coming from that particular writer, it makes it a bit important and I think, it should be taken seriously!
He is right about all those rubbish Hadiths of course and the need for reform in islam itself.
But what is I dont agree in his writing is that he thinks, somehow, a 'real islam' is the answer. And the secularism is not. And he does not have courage to go into non democratic values of Islam itself!! He does not want to extend his reforms into into basic writings in Koran ie equality between women and men, all those kaffir things, hand choppings etc.
He is avoiding the real problems and trying to prove that islam (consequently sheria) and open democratic socity can exist. A kind of mild version of islam which could be an example for all extremist middle east regimes. (And it reminds me a USA plan for the middle east in which Turkey is assigned a mild version of Islam).
But the thing is Sheria and democracy cant live together.
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| 14. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:30 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting Roswitha: "Women are imperfect in intellect and religion."
"The best of women are those who are like sheep."
"If a woman doesn't satisfy her husband's desires, she should choose herself a place in hell."
"If a husband's body is covered with pus and his wife licks it clean, she still wouldn't have paid her dues."
"Your prayer will be invalid if a donkey, black dog or a woman passes in front of you." |
Whoever said this is either mentally ill or is/was one of the most hateful creatures ever.
If islam REALLY has these phrases in its dogma/religious text... than I'm at a loss of words to describe how hideous it is. I cannot imagine why any woman would follow such a religion. |
Any intelligent person can immediately understand, these could not have been said by a moslem.
What are stupid missionaries for? To make up this sort of gross lies.
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| 15. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:52 pm |
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Quoting Roswitha: "Your prayer will be invalid if a donkey, black dog or a woman passes in front of you."
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This is outrageous!!! 
What an INSULT to donkeys and black dogs!!! Grrrrrrrrr!
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| 16. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:53 pm |
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Quoting AlphaF:
Any intelligent person can immediately understand, these could not have been said by a moslem.
What are stupid missionaries for? To make up this sort of gross lies. |
true, the first statement. i admit your IQ to be high to recognise that moslems wouldnt speak of their bad sides, they always try to hide defending blindly.
second, these are not lies. in your country women are deeply humiliated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMylM8gBbkA
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| 17. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 12:58 pm |
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women rights only problem of Turkey???there are planty female slavery samples on all world ,isn't it?and millions little girls in the sex traps and in the paw of drugs on all over world,isn't that bigger problem then Turkey's??
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| 18. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:01 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: women rights only problem of Turkey???there are planty female slavery samples on all world ,isn't it? |
mrx, be a man, and stand up for those women! dont poke at women in other countries! this is not a solution for those women in your country.
honor killings mostly 99% happen in muslim communities.
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| 19. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:05 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
This is outrageous!!!
What an INSULT to donkeys and black dogs!!! Grrrrrrrrr! |
exactly my thought!
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| 20. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:06 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting MrX67: women rights only problem of Turkey???there are planty female slavery samples on all world ,isn't it? |
mrx, be a man, and stand up for those women! dont poke at women in other countries! this is not a solution for those women in your country.
honor killings mostly 99% happen in muslim communities.
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| 21. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:07 pm |
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Quoting AlphaF: Quoting adonis: why the foreign people in this site are generally very interested in Turkey's internal problems? i wonder quite a lot. just like this topic, turban problem etc...
interesting... |
Are you also inteested? Why dont you talk about their countries too? |
make him your student. you are the best at insulting other countries where millions of turks flee to have a better life.
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| 22. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:09 pm |
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Quoting MrX67: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting MrX67: women rights only problem of Turkey???there are planty female slavery samples on all world ,isn't it? |
mrx, be a man, and stand up for those women! dont poke at women in other countries! this is not a solution for those women in your country.
honor killings mostly 99% happen in muslim communities.
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baby mrx cries 
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| 23. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:11 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting MrX67: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting MrX67: women rights only problem of Turkey???there are planty female slavery samples on all world ,isn't it? |
mrx, be a man, and stand up for those women! dont poke at women in other countries! this is not a solution for those women in your country.
honor killings mostly 99% happen in muslim communities.
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baby mrx cries |
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| 24. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:23 pm |
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noone of us here for defending whats goin wrong in Turkey,and sure we all open for all critises,but when we making a critise have to be more objective and have to think it bigger by interrogate all world,not only particular nations or countries...
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| 25. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:29 pm |
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Quoting Lapinkulta: why these stupid racist and anti-islamist women here anymore, catwoman and Femme_fatal?...stop attackting muslims and Turks here in TC.This site is for Turkish learners not for your discussions... |
I am not going to say anything about catwoman but I think she owns the site. But about femme_fatal.
We wanted her here man!!
I believe, she is a good counter-balance for Turkish racists.
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| 26. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:31 pm |
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Quoting Lapinkulta: This site is for Turkish learners |
And again.... why are you here then? 
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| 27. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:36 pm |
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to help people who need translation etc...
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| 28. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:38 pm |
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oki doki 
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| 29. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 01:49 pm |
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Quoting Lapinkulta: to help people who need translation etc... |
hes helping dudus
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| 30. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 05:23 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: It is a very interesting article indeed. And also, because it is coming from that particular writer, it makes it a bit important and I think, it should be taken seriously!
He is right about all those rubbish Hadiths of course and the need for reform in islam itself.
But what is I dont agree in his writing is that he thinks, somehow, a 'real islam' is the answer. And the secularism is not. And he does not have courage to go into non democratic values of Islam itself!! He does not want to extend his reforms into into basic writings in Koran ie equality between women and men, all those kaffir things, hand choppings etc.
He is avoiding the real problems and trying to prove that islam (consequently sheria) and open democratic socity can exist. A kind of mild version of islam which could be an example for all extremist middle east regimes. (And it reminds me a USA plan for the middle east in which Turkey is assigned a mild version of Islam).
But the thing is Sheria and democracy cant live together.
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My question is simple...since Islam is the "word of God"...can it really be reformed? If you truely believe that the Koran came straight from God how can there be any hope of a kinder gentler Koran? In my opinion...Islam is not redeemable. It is immutable and unchangeable. You either love it....or leave it.
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| 31. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 05:26 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Lapinkulta: to help people who need translation etc... |
hes helping dudus |
I guess he is saying that this site is meant for people who go on vacation and screw waiters and not for people trying to understand the ancient reasons for hate between east and west? Hummmm.....this is interesting.
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| 32. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 06:18 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: I guess he is saying that this site is meant for people who go on vacation and screw waiters and not for people trying to understand the ancient reasons for hate between east and west? Hummmm.....this is interesting.
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That is not the only reason silly
It is also so they can comfort those poor girls when they split from their dudus
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| 33. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 06:38 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Elisabeth: I guess he is saying that this site is meant for people who go on vacation and screw waiters and not for people trying to understand the ancient reasons for hate between east and west? Hummmm.....this is interesting.
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That is not the only reason silly
It is also so they can comfort those poor girls when they split from their dudus |
Ohh....I see, improving relations between east and west...He is providing a service to his fellow man (woman). I am silly...I thought he was just being a killjoy!
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| 34. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:25 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting Lapinkulta: why these stupid racist and anti-islamist women here anymore, catwoman and Femme_fatal?...stop attackting muslims and Turks here in TC.This site is for Turkish learners not for your discussions... |
I am not going to say anything about catwoman but I think she owns the site. But about femme_fatal.
We wanted her here man!!
I believe, she is a good counter-balance for Turkish racists. |
Why aren't you going to say anything about me?  I also deserve some compliments for my hard work! You bed boy, I'll take revenge... 
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| 35. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:33 pm |
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Quoting Lapinkulta: why these stupid racist and anti-islamist women here anymore, catwoman and Femme_fatal?...stop attackting muslims and Turks here in TC.This site is for Turkish learners not for your discussions... |
lapi, looks like you're pretty pissed at the moment. whether it's your monthly mood swings or some other strange reason, I suggest you take a rest, drink some hot chocolate, watch "babam ve oglum" and the mood swing should go away. if it still doesn't, let us know. we'll look for other solutions.
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| 36. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:33 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting Lapinkulta: why these stupid racist and anti-islamist women here anymore, catwoman and Femme_fatal?...stop attackting muslims and Turks here in TC.This site is for Turkish learners not for your discussions... |
I am not going to say anything about catwoman but I think she owns the site. But about femme_fatal.
We wanted her here man!!
I believe, she is a good counter-balance for Turkish racists. |
Why aren't you going to say anything about me? I also deserve some compliments for my hard work! You bed boy, I'll take revenge... |
I thought, bosses dont require compliments..That is all..
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| 37. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:34 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting Lapinkulta: why these stupid racist and anti-islamist women here anymore, catwoman and Femme_fatal?...stop attackting muslims and Turks here in TC.This site is for Turkish learners not for your discussions... |
lapi, looks like you're pretty pissed at the moment. whether it's your monthly mood swings or some other strange reason, I suggest you take a rest, drink some hot chocolate, watch "babam ve oglum" and the mood swing should go away. if it still doesn't, let us know. we'll look for other solutions. |
Can we wax him? 
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| 38. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:38 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom:
I thought, bosses dont require compliments..That is all.. |
bosses also want compliments! 
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| 39. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 07:40 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Can we wax him? |
Hahahah, you evil Elisabeth, you are reading my mind... I was trying to be polite and help the guy out... you know, I wouldn't say it to him, that he may find himself hairless one morning...
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| 40. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:26 pm |
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there is a need to say these ideas. well, it is obvious to say that catwoman and Roswitha are the most speculative members of this site. i have no tendency to accuse them but it is very apparent.
1- catwoman always gives speculative and not fundamental comments to the topics of the forum, and she's not sincere and not behind her ideas/comments.
2- she acts like the admin of this site and owns it. whenever i enter here, i always face her absurd comments about Turkey's internal problems. the comments of her are generally the reflection of Feminism. essentially, she identifies herself as a feminist, but does she know that she's so ridiculous?
3- why doesn't she mind her own motherland's problems? why is she so interested in Turkey's sociological traits? how did she take the right of making ridiculous and absurd comments about Turkey? is she a colonist or agent? i wonder quite a lot... hasn't she any other job? she is always here, why?
4- Roswitha always copies and pastes the articles of Mustafa Akyol from Turkish Daily News. Why? who is Mustafa Akyol? Quasi, there is nobody to learn, to have perception about Turkey in the world. Mustafa Akyol is a supporter of Islamic politicy and AKP and he is supported by USA to destruct and making wrong and absurd identifications about Turkey. He also rejects secularism and Kemalist politicy. He is a Neo-Islamic man in Turkey and most of Turkish people call these kind of men as "arse-licker". These kind of men always act for their advantages, benefits. when AKP became the government of Turkey, they created their own comprador intellectuals and society. Mustafa Akyol is one of them in this group.
for example: this article is a nice example of Mustafa Akyol to strenghten my argument.
http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=202736
5- It's no use copying and pasting the articles of these kind of authors, Mustafa Akyol. it is ridiculous. there are many authors in Turkey who give right information, to share observations and fair comments about Turkey's problems.
if u like Turkey, you have to show respect to Turkey and Turkish people and don't make absurd comments, don't interfere the internal subjects of Turkey, and don't read fake articles about Turkey...
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| 41. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:42 pm |
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So what do you suggest we talk about? The nice beaches in Turkey? Old buildings? Music? Tea?
Do you want people to know your country and try to understand it and it's people? Or do you just want us to come and spend our money and be done with it?
You're country is quite facinating, Adonis. It is facinating historically and presently because of its unique government. Nobody means to offend you and if you have a comment about an article that is posted (whether good or bad), you are certainly free to say so.
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| 42. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:46 pm |
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Quoting adonis: if u like Turkey, you have to show respect to Turkey and Turkish people and don't make absurd comments and don't read fake articles about Turkey... |
Cnm, you won't tell me what I should talk about. Actually, you're violating the rules of this site by making PERSONAL attacks on me. If you disagree with what I'm saying, address that instead of attacking me as a person.
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| 43. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:55 pm |
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Quoting adonis: there is a need to say these ideas. well, it is obvious to say that catwoman and Roswitha are the most speculative members of this site. i have no tendency to blame them but it is very apparent.
1- catwoman always gives speculative and not fundamental comments to the topics of the forum, and she's not sincere and not behind her ideas/comments.
2- she acts like the admin of this site and owns it. whenever i enter here, i always face her absurd comments about Turkey's internal problems. the comments of her are generally the reflection of Feminism. essentially, she identifies herself as a feminist, but does she know that she's so ridiculous?
3- why doesn't she mind her own motherland's problems? why is she so interested in Turkey's sociological traits? how did she take the right of making ridiculous and absurd comments about Turkey? is she a colonist or agent? i wonder quite a lot... hasn't she any other job? she is always here, why?
4- Roswitha always copies and pastes the articles of Mustafa Akyol from Turkish Daily News? Why? who is Mustafa Akyol? Quasi, there is nobody to learn, to have perception about Turkey in the world. Mustafa Akyol is a supporter of Islamic politicy and AKP and he is supported by USA to destruct and making wrong and absurd identifications about Turkey. He also rejects secularism and Kemalist politicy. He is a Neo-Islamic man in Turkey and most of Turkish people call these kind of men as "arse-licker". These kind of men always act for their advantages, benefits. when AKP became the government of Turkey, they created their own comprador intellectuals and society. Mustafa Akyol is one of them in this group.
for example: this article is a nice example of Mustafa Akyol to strenghten my argument.
http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=202736
5- It's no use copying and pasting the articles of these kind of authors, Mustafa Akyol. it is ridiculous. there are many authors in Turkey who give right information, to share observations and fair comments about Turkey's problems.
if u like Turkey, you have to show respect to Turkey and Turkish people and don't make absurd comments and don't read fake articles about Turkey... |
its for the first time ro-sweet-a is suspected by a turk
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| 44. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:56 pm |
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Actually I rather like the way that Roswitha "innocently" throws logs on the fire with her posts, especially during heated arguments!
Keep it up Ros!
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| 45. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 08:58 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Actually I rather like the way that Roswitha "innocently" throws logs on the fire with her posts, especially during heated arguments!
Keep it up Ros! |
Yep, me too.
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| 46. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:12 pm |
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Swearing, personal insults, racism, discriminating against Kurdish people (or people from any ethnic group), political-religious discussions and sympathising with terrorist organizations are strictly forbidden in this chat room and may result in deletion of account with or without a warning. If you see any of such behavior in the chat room please send us a message using the contact page with the date and time of the conversation. Chat conversations will be recorded for up to 3 days to allow monitoring such cases as they cause a lot of problems.
((((political-religious discussions))))
Mrs Roswitha i was too respect to your all idea's but cant say the same about this Topic...I dont want to see here About islamic life and islamic Woman's lifestyle here ..Coz it's the same with politic's...And it's Not interested u About this Topic's...Please Discuss Your Nation and Your National problems or culture ...TURKEY IS JUST FOR TURKS..AND JUST TURKS CAN DISCUSS ABOUT TURK CULTURE AND ISLAMIC LIFE IN TURKEY..IT'S NOT INTERESTED ANYONE ...YOU SEE? pls DONT PASTE THIS LINK'S HERE ...THANKS.
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| 47. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:15 pm |
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Turkish Captain.... have you ever travelled outside of Turkey... I'm just curious.. Thanks for stating your opinions, we'll take it into consideration. Just remember that you have no right to tell other members what they should do or what opinions they are allowed to have.
You have yours, and you stated it. Now we will continue stating ours.
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| 48. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:17 pm |
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Quoting Turkish_Captain: ...TURKEY IS JUST FOR TURKS....IT'S NOT INTERESTED ANYONE ...YOU SEE? |
Except, presumably, when you want money from tourism?
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| 49. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:20 pm |
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what a threat!
and they call me a racist for exposing their such poor mentality!
hope rosweeta wont get offended by handsome and lovely turks
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| 50. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:20 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Turkish_Captain: ...TURKEY IS JUST FOR TURKS....IT'S NOT INTERESTED ANYONE ...YOU SEE? |
Except, presumably, when you want money from tourism? |
One more exception, you're allowed to PRAISE Turkey as much as you like for it's internal issues.
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| 51. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:21 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: One more exception, you're allowed to PRAISE Turkey as much as you like for it's internal issues. |
Ermmmm.....they've got nice beaches (but that's not "internal" eh? 
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| 52. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:24 pm |
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Turkey:
Good Beaches
Tasty Tea
Nice people
Great Carpets
OK....we can change the name of the site now....We are done with Turkey.
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| 53. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:25 pm |
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HERE IS ROSWITHA!!!
Three cheers for Ros - the new rebel!
(You can join the CGG now )
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| 55. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:26 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: HERE IS ROSWITHA!!!
Three cheers for Ros - the new rebel!
(You can join the CGG now ) |
ROSY, ROSY, ROSY!
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| 56. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:28 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting AEnigma III: HERE IS ROSWITHA!!!
Three cheers for Ros - the new rebel!
(You can join the CGG now ) |
ROSY, ROSY, ROSY!
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Completely agree! Ross is from now on protected by the CGG!
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| 57. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:29 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting catwoman: One more exception, you're allowed to PRAISE Turkey as much as you like for it's internal issues. |
Ermmmm.....they've got nice beaches (but that's not "internal" eh? |
For lack of better things to praise at the moment, this one is accepted...
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| 58. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:30 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Completely agree! Ross is from now on protected by the CGG! |
We only usually offer protection service for a fee boss 
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| 59. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:34 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Turkey:
Good Beaches
Tasty Tea
Nice people
Great Carpets
OK....we can change the name of the site now....We are done with Turkey. |
beautiful headscarves or hijabs
soon those hijabs will turn into burkas
then we will have to praise beautiful burkas
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| 60. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:37 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting catwoman: Completely agree! Ross is from now on protected by the CGG! |
We only usually offer protection service for a fee boss |
You do have some savings, don't you? Pay yourself for now, we'll give you money back later. 
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| 61. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:42 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Elisabeth: Turkey:
Good Beaches
Tasty Tea
Nice people
Great Carpets
OK....we can change the name of the site now....We are done with Turkey. |
beautiful headscarves or hijabs
soon those hijabs will turn into burkas
then we will have to praise beautiful burkas |
Maybe we can get Alameda to post some lovely fashion burka sites? hehehe 
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| 62. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:47 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Elisabeth: Turkey:
Good Beaches
Tasty Tea
Nice people
Great Carpets
OK....we can change the name of the site now....We are done with Turkey. |
beautiful headscarves or hijabs
soon those hijabs will turn into burkas
then we will have to praise beautiful burkas |
Maybe we can get Alameda to post some lovely fashion burka sites? hehehe |
aspersions to Turkey and Turkish people... go on ladies go on...
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| 63. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:49 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Actually, you're violating the rules of this site by making PERSONAL attacks on me. If you disagree with what I'm saying, address that instead of attacking me as a person. |
Ohhhh,is this rule STİLL working ?!
İ thought it's been baned or something
İ like those Forum rules,come handy when you need them!
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| 64. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:53 pm |
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TURKEY IS JUST FOR TURKS..AND JUST TURKS CAN DISCUSS ABOUT TURK CULTURE AND ISLAMIC LIFE IN TURKEY..IT'S NOT INTERESTED ANYONE ...YOU SEE? pls DONT PASTE THIS LINK'S HERE ...THANKS
still thiking the same Things Here is not a Site when +50 ages bored and write something just for fun ...And Catwoman
if u are some logical you can get an idea about my job ..Travelling is my part of life Also i am living in a city which has lot's of foreign living there...And i know their culture well but i am not interested with it..but why europeans and americans interested to Turkish culture And islam???? Hımmm Coz They have no culture ...All destroyed...islamic life style is very important thing for family life..just look at EU and Usa marriage and after then look Turks Family System...We have strongs Families...What about Eu and Usa divorcing in 1 year or 2 years? Hah...i am very to live with islamic style ..Coz i am muslim and Turk... And i dont want to see when someone wants to talk about our culture or life style...So An Advice Find another Way to spent your worthless Time...Dont Talk about Turkish culture And Turban...If u have respect yourself just close the Topic..if you are shameless Go you head ...that my last words ...
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| 65. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:55 pm |
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Quoting Turkish_Captain: ...that my last words ... |
DO YOU PROMISE?
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| 66. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:56 pm |
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Dear Captain, what makes you think that we don't like it the way it is here? Just as you don't like our culture, we don't particularly like yours either, especially when it comes to certain aspects of your "family values".
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| 67. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:58 pm |
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Quoting Turkish_Captain: Here is not a Site when +50 ages bored and write something just for fun ...... |
It is going a bit too far to start insulting Ros, peace train and Alameda now....
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| 68. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 09:59 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Turkish_Captain: Here is not a Site when +50 ages bored and write something just for fun ...... |
It is going a bit too far to start insulting Ros, peace train and Alameda now.... |
And Alfpa
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| 69. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:00 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting Turkish_Captain: Here is not a Site when +50 ages bored and write something just for fun ...... |
It is going a bit too far to start insulting Ros, peace train and Alameda now.... |
Btw, Turkish people don't insult others, they are very respectful and tactful. They don't discriminate and are NOT racist. I don't know what else...
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| 70. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:03 pm |
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It sounds to me like a bunch of Turkish cranky pants men don't like women talking about freedom or lack of freedom. I guess we hit a nerve ladies...our work is done. All we have to do now is sit back and watch them prove our point.
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| 71. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:07 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: It sounds to me like a bunch of Turkish cranky pants men don't like women talking about freedom or lack of freedom. I guess we hit a nerve ladies...our work is done. All we have to do now is sit back and watch them prove our point. |
So wise...
+100000000
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| 72. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:08 pm |
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Quoting adonis:
aspersions to Turkey and Turkish people... go on ladies go on... |
Thank you for allowing us to continue. Seems you had little choice doesn't it.
Personally, I am dying to see your response to my earlier question of you....that you seem to have missed....you know....post 8, page 1 of this thread....earthquakes....disaster aid....ringing any bells here?
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| 73. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 10:15 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: It sounds to me like a bunch of Turkish cranky pants men don't like women talking about freedom or lack of freedom. I guess we hit a nerve ladies...our work is done. All we have to do now is sit back and watch them prove our point. |
But what fun is it to sit back when we can push buttons!?!?
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| 74. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:04 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting thehandsom: It is a very interesting article indeed. And also, because it is coming from that particular writer, it makes it a bit important and I think, it should be taken seriously!
He is right about all those rubbish Hadiths of course and the need for reform in islam itself.
But what is I dont agree in his writing is that he thinks, somehow, a 'real islam' is the answer. And the secularism is not. And he does not have courage to go into non democratic values of Islam itself!! He does not want to extend his reforms into into basic writings in Koran ie equality between women and men, all those kaffir things, hand choppings etc.
He is avoiding the real problems and trying to prove that islam (consequently sheria) and open democratic socity can exist. A kind of mild version of islam which could be an example for all extremist middle east regimes. (And it reminds me a USA plan for the middle east in which Turkey is assigned a mild version of Islam).
But the thing is Sheria and democracy cant live together.
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My question is simple...since Islam is the "word of God"...can it really be reformed? If you truely believe that the Koran came straight from God how can there be any hope of a kinder gentler Koran? In my opinion...Islam is not redeemable. It is immutable and unchangeable. You either love it....or leave it. |
Use of the word "reform" in relation to a perfect concept like islam would not be correct.
Though Quran is a divine guide book designed for all times, it can not be expected to include minute details and guidance on every possible situation.
It would have been nice if a wise and knowledgeble committe of scholars met from time to time and elaborated on cases where a direct reference in Quran can not be found by the layman.
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| 75. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:08 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting AlphaF:
Any intelligent person can immediately understand, these could not have been said by a moslem.
What are stupid missionaries for? To make up this sort of gross lies. |
true, the first statement. i admit your IQ to be high to recognise that moslems wouldnt speak of their bad sides, they always try to hide defending blindly.
second, these are not lies. in your country women are deeply humiliated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMylM8gBbkA |
Look at it this way, many women from your country are looking for lost love and respect in Turkia, mainly because they cant find it in their own country.
We are trying to make them all happy !
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| 76. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:30 pm |
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Quoting AlphaF:
Look at it this way, many women from your country are looking for lost love and respect in Turkia, mainly because they cant find it in their own country.
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what?
i heard the other stories about our lost women in turkia, who married turkish men and never returned to their families.
their families were worried and asked turkish families to help to find and see those ladies. unfortunately it never happent to some.
Quoting AlphaF:
We are trying to make them all happy !
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is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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| 77. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:38 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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| 78. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:38 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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fucking monsters.
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| 79. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:41 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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fucking monsters. |
the most shocking part is that the other woman seems to be helping the men! you're right...mucking fonsters! (sorry, I don't like to curse)
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| 80. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:44 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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fucking monsters. |
the most shocking part is that the other woman seems to be helping the men! you're right...mucking fonsters! (sorry, I don't like to curse) |
and that woman will have no right to leave him or to complain about it !!!
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| 81. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:47 pm |
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watching this video some men from TC came to my mind.
they just stood there ready to grab her in case she would run away. cowards stood there watching their traditon to get fulfiled.
how sick the mentality!
they did nothing! and her life is over after she is in taxi.
the fucking taxi driver waits until its done.
the old woman could be a mother bitch monster or bitch aunt.
our lovely traditions!
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| 82. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:47 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal:
is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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This is disgusting.
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| 83. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:50 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: is this how you make them happy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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fucking monsters. |
the most shocking part is that the other woman seems to be helping the men! you're right...mucking fonsters! (sorry, I don't like to curse) |
and that woman will have no right to leave him or to complain about it !!! |
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| 84. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:50 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: watching this video some men from TC came to my mind.
they just stood there ready to grab her in case she would run away. cowards stood there watching their traditon to get fulfiled.
how sick the mentality!
they did nothing! and her life is over after she is in taxi.
the fucking taxi driver waits until its done.
the old woman could be a mother bitch monster or bitch aunt.
our lovely traditions! |
you have every right to swear at them...and and + 1950000000
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| 85. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:51 pm |
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Now please tell me...assume you are an headscarved girl in turkey.. which one is better? to accept such a fucking fate and stay at home and wait for your fucking monster uneducated husband..or to go to universty and gain your economical and social freedom and marry whoever you want!
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| 86. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:52 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Now please tell me...assume you are an headscarved girl in turkey.. which one is better? to accept such a fucking fate and stay at home and wait for your fucking monster uneducated husband..or to go to universty and gain your economical and social freedom and marry whoever you want! |
Headscarves in universities!!!!! Lift the ban!!!!!
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| 87. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:54 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: Now please tell me...assume you are an headscarved girl in turkey.. which one is better? to accept such a fucking fate and stay at home and wait for your fucking monster uneducated husband..or to go to universty and gain your economical and social freedom and marry whoever you want! |
Headscarves in universities!!!!! Lift the ban!!!!! |
Finally someone understands me ya
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| 88. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:56 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Finally someone understands me ya |
You're such a wise one, ciko!
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| 89. |
05 Feb 2008 Tue 11:58 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: Finally someone understands me ya |
You're such a wise one, ciko! |
Should we wax him too?
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| 90. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:00 am |
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what was actually the cause of the beating? Notice the pills shown in the plastic bag of one of the young men.
Also notice no police coming for help.
Absolutely disgusting!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk
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| 91. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:06 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: Now please tell me...assume you are an headscarved girl in turkey.. which one is better? to accept such a fucking fate and stay at home and wait for your fucking monster uneducated husband..or to go to universty and gain your economical and social freedom and marry whoever you want! |
Headscarves in universities!!!!! Lift the ban!!!!! |
Finally someone understands me ya |
ciko, its not so as you say.
a girl can still get an arranged husband after her education because as an obidient muslim girl she will have to listen to her parents.
please, dont twist the truth and cheat the naive westerners.
i guarantee you, the islamic demands will not stop on hijabs, it will go on to burka and will end on stoning.
it depends how succesfully you can manipulate the minds.
i was watching a document about a shariah law implemented in nigeria, and how succefull it was drawn from the perspective of a young modern muslimah.
in this document a thief says that hes happy to get his hand chopped off, because he desrves it.
i can easily fear my children and convince them that its very good if i cut their limbs off so they could enter the paradise.
solution is not in just a headscarf ban getting off.
but what thing may come afterwards.
because we always bear the consequences of our decision, if not today then tomorrow.
let iran be an example for you turks. dont be so confident.
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| 92. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:07 am |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: Finally someone understands me ya |
You're such a wise one, ciko! |
Should we wax him too? |
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| 93. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:08 am |
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Quoting Roswitha: what was actually the cause of the beating? Notice the pills shown in the plastic bag of one of the young men.
Also notice no police coming for help.
Absolutely disgusting!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfprqm_QcKk |
i know what you are thinking
the man with a plastic bag is just a stranger who enjoys watching the tragedy.
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| 94. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:08 am |
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Of course backwards societies won't change when they send a couple women to school, but that is absolutely necessary if any changes are going to be even POSSIBLE!
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| 95. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:10 am |
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This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
If the person you marry or live together has this monster inside you... you will face with it sooner or later...
It has more related to your cultural and family education more and how much you make your brain work...
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| 96. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:10 am |
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Quoting Roswitha:
Also notice no police coming for help.
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i cant believe you are so naive!
who would call for police?
i wish you were born there and treated like that, maybe after that you would sing about beautiful headscarves?
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| 97. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:11 am |
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aspersions to Turkey are still goin' on. maybe the ladiez are bored and wanna make fun of someting and enjoy. don't worry, we are so careful for your ridiculous games in this site. you have to know how far you can go...
Turkey's internal issues are interested only for us namely the Turks, not for foreign people's in this site. If they wanna make comments about a subject relating Turkey's internal issue, you must make a wide investigation about that issue. otherwise, you'll be identified as a colonist, ignorant, unsincere and have a tendency to insult Turkey and Turkish people and culture. of course some comments are seemed innocent, because of some prejudices and uninformed approaches. however, most of comments about Turkey by the foreigners are in destructive manner.
Because of being a Turkish boy, i don't allow you to make these kinda comments. you are feminist whereas i'm a Kemalist. you are feminist whereas i'm anti-imperialist. you are feminist whereas i'm secular. you are feminist whereas i'm independent. this is the difference between us. you got it?
earthquake and the other events are natural events and they causes destruction and pain and interest to the entire world. So, the foreigners certainly talk these kind of issues in Turkey and if they wanna help Turkey, they are welcome. However, Turban problem or the other issues are the internal issues of Turkey, so the foreigners should not interfere these issues and if they wanna make approach, they have a great and wide knowledge about these issues with sources.
So, please don't make demagogies. Earthquake and Turban problem or Secularism in Turkey or whatever are different issues and it isn't related to this topic. be realist and logical...
if u don't like Turkey and Turkish culture, why u r here? why are u writing insulting, unfair and speculative comments about Turkey? how did u take the right of writing this kind of sentences/comments?
if u really wanna learn Turkish, that's okay, u can certainly use this site as a source. otherwise leave this site as soon as possible please...
you were informing me the rules of this site. however, you have absolutely no rights to insult Turkey and Turkish culture. furthermore, you must not open and make political and religious subjects in the forum. don't you still know it?
these are my last words... take care...
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| 98. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:15 am |
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Adonis, I wish you could shine some of your charisma in your writing, as you do in your pictures...
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| 99. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:16 am |
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But am I right to think that there is no clear indication that this is an incident related to a marriage?..I am not trying to soften it but it might be a relative or a sister as well..
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| 100. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:21 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: But am I right to think that there is no clear indication that this is an incident related to a marriage?..I am not trying to soften it but it might be a relative or a sister as well..
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marriage or not...
it made my blood boil, after such video im sad and angry.
it just is never the same.
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| 101. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:23 am |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
.. |
of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job! because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry
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| 102. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:25 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: But am I right to think that there is no clear indication that this is an incident related to a marriage?..I am not trying to soften it but it might be a relative or a sister as well..
|
The girl was talking Turkish with the east accent... but being wife or sister or a relative cant be a reason for being treated like that...
When you try to solve the problems with your own ways and not using the laws or at least talking... then whats the meaning of having the law system...
But on the other hand, this situation is not only in Turkey... i am sure there are worse examples in USA or in Europa, but again this doesnt make it right to be happen in Turkey...
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| 103. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:26 am |
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Quoting adonis: aspersions to Turkey are still goin' on. maybe the ladiez are bored and wanna make fun of someting and enjoy. don't worry, we are so careful for your ridiculous games in this site. you have to know how far you can go...
Turkey's internal issues are interested only for us namely the Turks, not for foreign people's in this site. If they wanna make comments about a subject relating Turkey's internal issue, you must make a wide investigation about that issue. otherwise, you'll be identified as a colonist, ignorant, unsincere and have a tendency to insult Turkey and Turkish people and culture. of course some comments are seemed innocent, because of some prejudices and uninformed approaches. however, most of comments about Turkey by the foreigners are in destructive manner.
Because of being a Turkish boy, i don't allow you to make these kinda comments. you are feminist whereas i'm a Kemalist. you are feminist whereas i'm anti-imperialist. you are feminist whereas i'm secular. you are feminist whereas i'm independent. this is the difference between us. you got it?
earthquake and the other events are natural events and they causes destruction and pain and interest to the entire world. So, the foreigners certainly talk these kind of issues in Turkey and if they wanna help Turkey, they are welcome. However, Turban problem or the other issues are the internal issues of Turkey, so the foreigners should not interfere these issues and if they wanna make approach, they have a great and wide knowledge about these issues with sources.
So, please don't make demagogies. Earthquake and Turban problem or Secularism in Turkey or whatever are different issues and it isn't related to this topic. be realist...
if u don't like Turkey and Turkish culture, why u r here? why are u writing insulting, unfair and speculative comments about Turkey? how did u take the right of writing this kind of sentences/comments?
if u really wanna learn Turkish, that's okay, u can certainly use this site as a source. otherwise leave this site as soon as possible please...
you were informing me the rules of this site. however, you have absolutely no rights to insult Turkey and Turkish culture. furthermore, you must not open and make political and religious subjects in the forum. don't you still know it?
these are my last words... take care... |
No one is bashing Turkey or it's rich culture. They ask to obtain answers. The answers come with varying degrees of beliefs.
Demographics and personal opinions also come from varying sources.
I think you criticize observers here in TC wrongly my friend.
The are talking about basic human rights...Especially for the women, where for so long they have lived in oppression.
The right for men , women and children to live freely and not in fear.
The right for women to choose what they will wear, where they will go and how far they wish to carry their educational desires.
Not the ' right ' for some man to beat a woman on the street while other men watch....
This is not a true measure of real men...Men are to be
protectors....
Let us hope this never happens to one of yours....
Walk in peace my brother......
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| 104. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:33 am |
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Bravo, Eddie!
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| 105. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:33 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting SuiGeneris: This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
.. |
of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job! because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry |
You dont even have a value after graduating from university you know.. ofcourse everybody should have the rights equally not depending on what they wear... There is no EDUCATION in universities, you educate yourself there, what is given in universities are free time for you to think about yourself and your life( if you can do or want to do ) and knowledge about the topic you choose in academic level...
What makes you a good or bad person or a human being is directly related to discovering who you are, and university just gives you time for this 4 years at least and meeting with lots of people from all around the world...
These are what i think ofcourse...
We will all face with all these unless we stop raising our childrens with TV not with the schools from early ages...
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| 106. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:34 am |
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Quoting ciko:
of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job!
|
your sister chose her headscarf, not her future, not education?
voila!
nice tradition! nice mentality! and nice way to justify! a secular democratic country with loads of girls chosing scarves to education!
let me just think of an western girl, shes banned to wear a cross. she just takes it off and goes to university.
Quoting ciko:
because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )
|
who cares what girls think in your country? if they want shariah or not? at the end its not them wanting to wear the hijabs but the islamists
Quoting ciko:
to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry |
ouha!
ciko
to think that the democratic laic system of turkia under the military junta!!! ho ho ho
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| 107. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:48 am |
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Quoting SuiGeneris: ...........But on the other hand, this situation is not only in Turkey... i am sure there are worse examples in USA or in Europa, but again this doesnt make it right to be happen in Turkey... |
You are correct Sui....it happens in the USA also. I've seen it in New York City myself. It's always terrifying when something like this happens. It's assumed to be "domestic violence", but sometimes it is a simple case of abduction.
However, too often it's more...3 examples of many:
Missing People
bodies found in Canada, but the women were from the US and Canada
Gary Hilton
Ted Bundy
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| 108. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:59 am |
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The Concept of Honor
So-called honor killings are based on the belief, deeply rooted in some cultures, of women as objects and commodities, not as human beings endowed with dignity and rights equal to those of men. Women are considered the property of male relatives and are seen to embody the honor of the men to whom they "belong." Women's bodies are considered the repositories of family honor. The concepts of male status and family status are of particular importance in cultures where "honor" killings occur and where women are viewed as responsible for upholding a family's "honor." If a woman or girl is accused or suspected of engaging in behavior that could taint male and/or family status, she may face brutal retaliation from her relatives that often results in violent death. Even though such accusations are not based on factual or tangible evidence, any allegation of dishonor against a woman often suffices for family members to take matters into their own hands.
Convicted killers often speak with defiant pride and without regret about their actions. "We do not consider this murder," said Wafik Abu Abseh, a 22-year-old Jordanian woodcutter who committed a so-called honor killing, as his mother, brother and sisters nodded in agreement. "It was like cutting off a finger." Abdel Rahim, a convicted killer who was released after two months, also said he had no regrets. "Honor is more precious than my own flesh and blood" (New York Times).
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| 109. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:20 am |
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post revised as below
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| 110. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:35 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting SuiGeneris: This treatments has nothing to the with the education in universities... and universities are going to be in the way as high schools in Turkey unfortunately...
.. |
of course it has many things to education...the closest sample to me is my sister..she could not go to universty only because she was headscarved...so she didnt have any job! because as you know girls graduated from high schools dont mean so much in turkey...yes she is not married with a monster now but she could have her own financial freedom if she could go to universty( she has never wanted sheria )to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge.democracy or any modern system has never existed in iran..they have always been under a totalitarian regime...To think that Turkey's laic democratic system is as weak as shah's f.cking military junta is just stupidity and ignorance..nothing more! anyway i think what i m talking about is off topic, sorry |
I know you will not understand or appreciate my reply, but I shall tell you the truth...Whether you like it or not is up to you...
1. If you live in a secular country, your main difference from another country is that society is not run by laws designed to follow the divine aspirations of any religion.
2. This does not mean that the religious rules are bad. But especially in a country where you have more than one religious group, Secular State must stand at equal distance from the different groups, trying not to favor one against the other.
3. It is foolish to expect the Secular State to set up Universities to match exact demands of all possible students, ie, those with turban, those without turban, communists, nudists, peanuts, wallnuts, nationalists, racists etc.
So what the Secular State does is to set up the Universities in accordance with the existing secular laws. The rules regarding the management of the university and the rules that students will have to follow are prepared in accordance with secular laws and availed to all future students.
4. The realm of "personal liberties" or "individual freedoms" starts after everybody reads these rules and understands them. It is then upto the individuals to consider the rules and their own priorities and decide whether they wish to conform to the rules and seek admittance to a university or not.
5.In a secular country, citizens are expected to follow secular rules. It is not allowed to use the citizen rights, to gain advantage for one's own religion or own convictions - the freedom granted by secular democracy can not be used to change the system into one of teocracy either.
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| 111. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:48 am |
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Quoting Turkish_Captain: TURKEY IS JUST FOR TURKS..AND JUST TURKS CAN DISCUSS ABOUT TURK CULTURE AND ISLAMIC LIFE IN TURKEY..IT'S NOT INTERESTED ANYONE ...YOU SEE? pls DONT PASTE THIS LINK'S HERE ...THANKS. |
You seem to have a sick mind. You are actually saying that I should not be interested in Turkey at all, that I am not allowed to visit Turkey anymore (its just for turks), that I cant be interested in İslamic life in Turkey.
Just for your info, I hope to work in Turkey one day and I hope to know damn well how your islamic life is before offereing someone a bacon-tomato sandwich!!
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| 112. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:51 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Adonis, I wish you could shine some of your charisma in your writing, as you do in your pictures... |
HAHAHAH well his pictures are exactly like his writing!!! Black and white!!
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| 113. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:00 am |
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Lapinkulta, Adonis and Turkish_Captain, I ask you friendly to back off a little. These forums are meant for people who want to know more about Turkey. They would not want it if they were not interested in it, am I wrong? To understand something, means you need to get in a discussion. And as much as we all love Turkey, there are enough things that we can discuss about.
Islam and politics are two main themes in Turkey, because they will determine the future of (y)our country. If someone says that a prayer is invalid when a woman passes by, it is very normal that people wonder hwy someone would actually support Islam. People will keep wondering that until they talk about it and learn something from other people, who show them their point of view. And since we all have our own backgrounds, we will all have different values and ideas. These can lead to critics on other peoples thought, but there is nothing wrong about that if we remain interested in what the other is saying.
So what I would like to state as forum-rule number 1:
1. CRITICISM İS NOT A BAD THİNG
(2. Making jokes is necessary to go on the study-process )
Please stop acting like victims of turkishness, people were done with that long time ago. We dont tolerate personal attacks, and we certainly dont tolerate 'Turkey is just for Turks'. Simply BECAUSE İT İS NOT. We will discuss all topics that have to do with Turkey, and this discussion seemed to go pretty fine until YOU 3 started complaining that we make fun of Turkey. If you have nothing better to do than protect the internet from genuine people genuinely discussing Turkey, feel free to leave and start a milliyetçi.com .
DK
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| 114. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:24 am |
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Islam and feminism is in the same sentence. Hahahaha
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| 115. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:40 am |
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Quoting Animal Mother: Islam and feminism is in the same sentence. Hahahaha |
I was going to say this loooooong ago, heheheheh.
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| 116. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:40 am |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: Lapinkulta, Adonis and Turkish_Captain, I ask you friendly to back off a little. These forums are meant for people who want to know more about Turkey. They would not want it if they were not interested in it, am I wrong? To understand something, means you need to get in a discussion. And as much as we all love Turkey, there are enough things that we can discuss about.
Islam and politics are two main themes in Turkey, because they will determine the future of (y)our country. If someone says that a prayer is invalid when a woman passes by, it is very normal that people wonder hwy someone would actually support Islam. People will keep wondering that until they talk about it and learn something from other people, who show them their point of view. And since we all have our own backgrounds, we will all have different values and ideas. These can lead to critics on other peoples thought, but there is nothing wrong about that if we remain interested in what the other is saying.
So what I would like to state as forum-rule number 1:
1. CRITICISM İS NOT A BAD THİNG
(2. Making jokes is necessary to go on the study-process )
Please stop acting like victims of turkishness, people were done with that long time ago. We dont tolerate personal attacks, and we certainly dont tolerate 'Turkey is just for Turks'. Simply BECAUSE İT İS NOT. We will discuss all topics that have to do with Turkey, and this discussion seemed to go pretty fine until YOU 3 started complaining that we make fun of Turkey. If you have nothing better to do than protect the internet from genuine people genuinely discussing Turkey, feel free to leave and start a milliyetçi.com .
DK |
DK is my new idol! So wise!
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| 117. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:58 am |
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Quoting Roswitha: what was actually the cause of the beating? |
It makes absolutely no difference what the cause was, what the relationship was, where it was....it is wrong!!
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| 118. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 04:01 am |
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True, Girleegirl
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| 119. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 04:05 am |
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Quoting adonis:
Because of being a Turkish boy, i don't allow you to make these kinda comments. you are feminist whereas i'm a Kemalist. you are feminist whereas i'm anti-imperialist. you are feminist whereas i'm secular. you are feminist whereas i'm independent. this is the difference between us. you got it?
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No...I certainly don't 'got it'! Maybe you can't understand this so I will make it clear for you....You don't get to tell us what we talk about. We are feminists whereas you are living in the dark ages!!!
We will continue voicing our opinions on whatever subjects we choose and there is nothing you can do about it....GOT IT?
Quoting adonis:
these are my last words... take care... |
We can only hope.
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| 120. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 04:08 am |
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Quoting adonis:
earthquake and the other events are natural events and they causes destruction and pain and interest to the entire world. So, the foreigners certainly talk these kind of issues in Turkey and if they wanna help Turkey, they are welcome.
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What a completely predictable reponse.
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| 121. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 04:10 am |
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Quoting eddie:
No one is bashing Turkey or it's rich culture. They ask to obtain answers. The answers come with varying degrees of beliefs.
Demographics and personal opinions also come from varying sources.
I think you criticize observers here in TC wrongly my friend.
The are talking about basic human rights...Especially for the women, where for so long they have lived in oppression.
The right for men , women and children to live freely and not in fear.
Let us hope this never happens to one of yours....
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Wanna get waxed?
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| 122. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 04:10 am |
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Quoting girleegirl: No...I certainly don't 'got it'! Maybe you can't understand this so I will make it clear for you....You don't get to tell us what we talk about. We are feminists whereas you are living in the dark ages!!!
We will continue voicing our opinions on whatever subjects we choose and there is nothing you can do about it....GOT IT? |
+infinity! right on point
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| 123. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 06:19 am |
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Quoting girleegirl: Quoting adonis:
earthquake and the other events are natural events and they causes destruction and pain and interest to the entire world. So, the foreigners certainly talk these kind of issues in Turkey and if they wanna help Turkey, they are welcome.
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What a completely predictable reponse. |
GG, why do you hate men?   Why did you pick adonis to answer this question? You knew that he'd say sth laughable, yet, you chose to ask HIM. That shows you hate men. Why?
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| 124. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 06:24 am |
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Not all men kitty!!
Only the laughable ones.......because they make it soooo easy!!!! 
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| 125. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 06:27 am |
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Quoting girleegirl: Only the laughable ones.......because they make it soooo easy!!!! |
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| 126. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 06:28 am |
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I just wonder why it took so long for him to come up with the answer!
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| 127. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 06:30 am |
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Quoting girleegirl: I just wonder why it took so long for him to come up with the answer! |
You asked a difficult question, not sth he can read about in Hurriyet. Which makes me wonder... where did YOU read this question?
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| 128. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 06:32 am |
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Quoting catwoman:
You asked a difficult question, not sth he can read about in Hurriyet. Which makes me wonder... where did YOU read this question? |
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| 129. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 11:32 am |
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Quoting ciko: to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge. |
I think you have a point there Ciko.
We should stop thinking that our democracy is a huge balloon and if there is a little hole, it will burst. If we are thinking that way, we have a bigger problem than turban It is better if we discussed the democracy in Turkey generally.
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| 130. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 11:38 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting ciko: to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge. |
I think you have a point there Ciko.
We should stop thinking that our democracy is a huge balloon and if there is a little hole, it will burst. If we are thinking that way, we have a bigger problem than turban It is better if we discussed the democracy in Turkey generally. |
i didnt get what you meant but i am sure you said something nice as always
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| 131. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 11:42 am |
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Quoting ciko: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting ciko: to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge. |
I think you have a point there Ciko.
We should stop thinking that our democracy is a huge balloon and if there is a little hole, it will burst. If we are thinking that way, we have a bigger problem than turban It is better if we discussed the democracy in Turkey generally. |
i didnt get what you meant but i am sure you said something nice as always |
I was trying to say that If our democracy is going to go away with 'just allowing turban in universities', let it be.
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| 132. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 11:45 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting ciko: Quoting thehandsom: Quoting ciko: to think that those girls want sheria in turkey is just a paranoia of some paranoids...people who compare turkey and iran apperantly have no historical knowledge. |
I think you have a point there Ciko.
We should stop thinking that our democracy is a huge balloon and if there is a little hole, it will burst. If we are thinking that way, we have a bigger problem than turban It is better if we discussed the democracy in Turkey generally. |
i didnt get what you meant but i am sure you said something nice as always |
I was trying to say that If our democracy is going to go away with 'just allowing turban in universities', let it be. |
+126400003
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| 133. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 11:51 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting girleegirl: No...I certainly don't 'got it'! Maybe you can't understand this so I will make it clear for you....You don't get to tell us what we talk about. We are feminists whereas you are living in the dark ages!!!
We will continue voicing our opinions on whatever subjects we choose and there is nothing you can do about it....GOT IT? |
+infinity! right on point |
The only danger here is that the group may then stand to lose its Turkish members, who do feel like Turks.
The critisizm, even from the moderators, should not be on nationality bases.
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| 134. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:18 pm |
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Quoting AlphaF:
The only danger here is that the group may then stand to lose its Turkish members, who do feel like Turks.
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Quoting AlphaF:
The critisizm, even from the moderators, should not be on nationality bases. |
well, when alpha insults and criticises other nationalities its absolutely OK
when others do about alpha's nationality its NOT
Grow up, grandpa!
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| 135. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:23 pm |
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Femme , you are the only person i hate and i love at the same time
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| 137. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:42 pm |
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Notice my greatest insult rarely goes beyond "peanut" which, at worst, is something most people like.
If insults prevail, you may have some people left who calls themselves Turkish. But we all know they are not really Turks.
It will not be much fun discussing Turkia with missionaries constantly quoting from ZAMAN, either.
I suggest you treat Turkia and your Turks with care and respect, there are not many of them here...
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| 138. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:51 pm |
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Quoting AlphaF: Notice my greatest insult rarely goes beyond 'peanut', which at worst, is something most people like.
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oh, lets pretend you are an angel
Quoting AlphaF:
If insults prevail, you may have some people left, who calls themselves Turkish. but we all know they are not really Turks.
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look buddy, no one in turkia is turk.
the real turks looked 100% different! they had round faces, flat noses, little eyes, short legs.
alpha, you are a mix of greeks, armenians, persians and arabs.
Quoting AlphaF:
It will not be much fun discussing Turkia with missionaries constantly quoting from ZAMAN, either.
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oh lets talk about peanuts then.
Quoting AlphaF:
I suggest you treat Turkia and your Turks with care and respect, there are not many of them here...
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a speech of a zombie!
shut up!
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| 139. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 12:57 pm |
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AlphaF, no more !
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| 140. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 01:00 pm |
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Quoting AlphaF: AlphaF, no more ! |
and welcome adonis, turkish captain, c--
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| 141. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:17 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting ciko: Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: Now please tell me...assume you are an headscarved girl in turkey.. which one is better? to accept such a fucking fate and stay at home and wait for your fucking monster uneducated husband..or to go to universty and gain your economical and social freedom and marry whoever you want! |
Headscarves in universities!!!!! Lift the ban!!!!! |
Finally someone understands me ya |
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I completely agree with you on this one Ciko (and sorry I disagree with you Femme! )
It is MORE IMPORTANT that all women have access to better education than it is to worry about headscarves.
It is absolute paranoia to suggest that Turkey will become an Islamic state just because they allow headscarves into schools and universities. It is a HUMAN RIGHT and whatever we think about the headscarf culture, we have to support this move.
The better educated these women become, the more they will have their independence, and the more likely this "culture" will change.
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| 142. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:24 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting ciko: Quoting catwoman: Quoting ciko: Now please tell me...assume you are an headscarved girl in turkey.. which one is better? to accept such a fucking fate and stay at home and wait for your fucking monster uneducated husband..or to go to universty and gain your economical and social freedom and marry whoever you want! |
Headscarves in universities!!!!! Lift the ban!!!!! |
Finally someone understands me ya |
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I completely agree with you on this one Ciko (and sorry I disagree with you Femme! )
It is MORE IMPORTANT that all women have access to better education than it is to worry about headscarves.
It is absolute paranoia to suggest that Turkey will become an Islamic state just because they allow headscarves into schools and universities. It is a HUMAN RIGHT and whatever we think about the headscarf culture, we have to support this move.
The better educated these women become, the more they will have their independence, and the more likely this 'culture' will change. |
can you please give a part of your brain to Femme
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| 143. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:27 pm |
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Quoting ciko: can you please give a part of your brain to Femme |
Offfffff you dudus!! Its all about us giving giving giving eh?
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| 144. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:38 pm |
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oh, are you all blind?
well, first, islimists won the elections.
second, the islamic hijabs now are allowed.
third, people started thinking that everything is OK.
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| 145. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:51 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: oh, are you all blind?
well, first, islimists won the elections.
second, the islamic hijabs now are allowed.
third, people started thinking that everything is OK. |
foam, maybe you just need to get some life.. the paranoia is eating you.
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| 146. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:53 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: oh, are you all blind?
well, first, islimists won the elections.
second, the islamic hijabs now are allowed.
third, people started thinking that everything is OK.
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why not femme
In the end only the correct will be,
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| 147. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:55 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
It is MORE IMPORTANT that all women have access to better education than it is to worry about headscarves.
It is absolute paranoia to suggest that Turkey will become an Islamic state just because they allow headscarves into schools and universities. It is a HUMAN RIGHT and whatever we think about the headscarf culture, we have to support this move.
The better educated these women become, the more they will have their independence, and the more likely this "culture" will change. |
right
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| 148. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:56 pm |
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The fact is, it is paranoia that keeps Rule 301 alive, it is paranoia that keeps the army in control of the government, it is paranoia that prevents anyone moving forward (as Ataturk would have done).
People will not change their religion because of any law. It is better to accept this fact and progress than live in fear of an Islamic state.
And...here comes Turkish Captain to tell me to shut up and that Turkey is for Turks.....
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| 149. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 02:59 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: The fact is, it is paranoia that keeps Rule 301 alive, it is paranoia that keeps the army in control of the government, it is paranoia that prevents anyone moving forward (as Ataturk would have done).
People will not change their religion because of any law. It is better to accept this fact and progress than live in fear of an Islamic state. |
And plus, Turkey needs to pass this stage without the army putting their nose in.
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| 150. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:01 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: The fact is, it is paranoia that keeps Rule 301 alive, it is paranoia that keeps the army in control of the government, it is paranoia that prevents anyone moving forward (as Ataturk would have done).
People will not change their religion because of any law. It is better to accept this fact and progress than live in fear of an Islamic state. |
everything is going according to the plan though, we don't REALLY want any progressive changes . the same old gov't is in power and paranoia and military and ethnic pride brainwashes ppl enough to secure the gov't's position. it's the very same pride and paranoia that made americans support bush. the same tactics work everywhere. it's pretty amazing.
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| 151. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:04 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
People will not change their religion because of any law. It is better to accept this fact and progress than live in fear of an Islamic state. |
finally AEnigma understood what we (moslems)say and want
i hope to others opening mind too
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| 152. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:07 pm |
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I dont really care, to be honest. All I care about is the women. It's easy to say "I don't support Islam because of its lack of women's rights" but it does not help women to do this.
What will help these women is to allow them to attend university. It is unrealistic to suggest that they just abandon their headscarves and attend. How can we know the pressure they are under from their belief,families, culture and upbringing?
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| 153. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:08 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: I dont really care, to be honest. All I care about is the women. It's easy to say "I don't support Islam because of its lack of women's rights" but it does not help women to do this.
What will help these women is to allow them to attend university. It is unrealistic to suggest that they just abandon their headscarves and attend. How can we know the pressure they are under from their families, culture and upbringing? |
Absolutely!
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| 154. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:39 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting AEnigma III: I dont really care, to be honest. All I care about is the women. It's easy to say 'I don't support Islam because of its lack of women's rights' but it does not help women to do this.
What will help these women is to allow them to attend university. It is unrealistic to suggest that they just abandon their headscarves and attend. How can we know the pressure they are under from their families, culture and upbringing? |
Absolutely! |
you both agree so with eachother so much lately hadi fight fight fight!!! you are being boring
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| 155. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:41 pm |
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Quoting ciko: you both agree so with eachother so much lately hadi fight fight fight!!! you are being boring |
Hmmmm you are right
TIME FOR SOME USA BASHING! 
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| 156. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:48 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Hmmmm you are right
TIME FOR SOME USA BASHING! |
bring it on cnm!
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| 157. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 03:59 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting ciko: you both agree so with eachother so much lately hadi fight fight fight!!! you are being boring |
Hmmmm you are right
TIME FOR SOME USA BASHING! |
When is it not time for USA bashing?
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| 158. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 04:59 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: I dont really care, to be honest. All I care about is the women. It's easy to say "I don't support Islam because of its lack of women's rights" but it does not help women to do this.
What will help these women is to allow them to attend university. It is unrealistic to suggest that they just abandon their headscarves and attend. How can we know the pressure they are under from their belief,families, culture and upbringing? |
what will happen after they get their education?
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| 159. |
06 Feb 2008 Wed 05:01 pm |
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Quoting elham: Quoting AEnigma III:
People will not change their religion because of any law. It is better to accept this fact and progress than live in fear of an Islamic state. |
finally AEnigma understood what we (moslems)say and want
i hope to others opening mind too |
yes, gaining back the lost caliphate (the ottomans). its almost done!
establishing the world caliphate is successfully progressing!
congrats!
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| 160. |
07 Feb 2008 Thu 12:24 am |
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Quoting AlphaF: AlphaF, no more ! |
You had better be kidding partner
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| 161. |
07 Feb 2008 Thu 11:27 am |
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Quoting AlphaF: It will not be much fun discussing Turkia with missionaries constantly quoting from ZAMAN, either.
I suggest you treat Turkia and your Turks with care and respect, there are not many of them here...
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Why can't you treat other people with respect? You always refer to bloody missionaries, cursing them. I suspect you have never met one, because you clearly know nothing about them. Your view of missionaries is so clearly and typically media influenced, you believe everything you hear on Turkish media, you go with the flow of hatred towards them and yet, you know nothing about them !
Funny...
Secondly there are so many posts here about how nobody should criticize Turkey yet, there are thousands of incidences on TC where you (plural) criticize and make fun of other countries, other nationalities and their laws, rule and culture.
Once again, you can give but can't take....
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| 162. |
07 Feb 2008 Thu 11:36 am |
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Quoting Cacık:
You always refer to bloody missionaries, cursing them. I suspect you have never met one, because you clearly know nothing about them. Your view of missionaries is so clearly and typically media influenced, you believe everything you hear on Turkish media, you go with the flow of hatred towards them and yet, you know nothing about them !
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Maybe he is confusing 'missionaries' with 'mercenaries'.
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| 163. |
07 Feb 2008 Thu 11:25 pm |
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Ok so i understand that the ban has been lifted and it is now ok for women to wear scarves in Universities. I think i understand why some Turks may be against this,a threat to secularism etc However i don't see the problem.Covered women should have just as much right to an education as a woman who chooses not to wear hijab.
However i do understand that some people see Universities as a place where religion shouldnt be brought in so to speak.I know they view it as a threat to the state they have had created for them by Ataturk and that Gül is a trying to change the nature of Turkey as a secular state, however he can't just come along and do this am i right? This is not the nature of a democracy but a dictatorship.
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| 164. |
07 Feb 2008 Thu 11:58 pm |
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I don't really understand your question (or your post to be honest). Gul was elected - so he is not a dictator
Has the ban on headscarves actually be lifted yet then?
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| 165. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 12:04 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III: I don't really understand your question (or your post to be honest). Gul was elected - so he is not a dictator
Has the ban on headscarves actually be lifted yet then? |
I know Gul was elected i meant that people seem to think it is more like a dictatorship because they have the impression that he will just go around changing whatever he wants and making Turkey into an Islamic state rather than a secular one.I was hoping it would be apparent that my question was more of a retorical one instead of one that really required an answer.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0218889420080202
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| 166. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 12:48 am |
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Quoting SERA_2005: I know Gul was elected i meant that people seem to think it is more like a dictatorship because they have the impression that he will just go around changing whatever he wants and making Turkey into an Islamic state rather than a secular one. |
I hate to be your Devil's advocate, and certainly would hate to see Turkey become an Islamic state too, but don't you see the irony in your words? Didn't Ataturk also change whatever he wanted by making Turkey into a secular country? Was there not an element of dictatorship in what he did?
(By the way, as far as I am aware the lifting of the ban on headscarves is still only proposed and has not become law yet - can anyone confirm if this law has FINALLY been passed?)
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| 167. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 12:57 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting SERA_2005: I know Gul was elected i meant that people seem to think it is more like a dictatorship because they have the impression that he will just go around changing whatever he wants and making Turkey into an Islamic state rather than a secular one. |
Didn't Ataturk also change whatever he wanted by making Turkey into a secular country? Was there not an element of dictatorship in what he did?
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oh let me guess what they will say ....'Ataturk had to change everything for people's own good despite people...Ataturk was never a dictator..he was always a great leader blah blah blah'
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| 168. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:16 am |
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Quoting ciko:
oh let me guess what they will say ....'Ataturk had to change everything for people's own good despite people...Ataturk was never a dictator..he was always a great leader blah blah blah' |
Ciko
I remember reading an article about him and it was saying something like 'Ataturk was the last dictator in order to stop anybody becoming dictator after him'.
The change he made was good and necessary for Turkish people.
He was a great leader too..blah blah ..
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| 169. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:18 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting ciko:
oh let me guess what they will say ....'Ataturk had to change everything for people's own good despite people...Ataturk was never a dictator..he was always a great leader blah blah blah' |
Ciko
I remember reading an article about him and it was saying something like 'Ataturk was the last dictator in order to stop anybody becoming dictator after him'.
The change he made was good and necessary for Turkish people.
He was a great leader too..blah blah .. |
Apperantly he could not achieve what he wanted the dictator just after him was Inonu..even worse
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| 170. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:21 am |
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Quarter of U.S. women suffer domestic violence: CDC
This was in the news today...for all those who think domestic relations in the USA have it so great and liberated.
It's also interesting to note:
....11.5 percent of men reported being a victim of what it called "intimate partner violence" at some time in their lives.
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| 172. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:23 am |
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Quoting alameda: Quarter of U.S. women suffer domestic violence: CDC
This was in the news today...for all those who think domestic relations in the USA have it so great and liberated.
It's also interesting to note:
....11.5 percent of men reported being a victim of what it called "intimate partner violence" at some time in their lives. |
Poor men - 11.5 percent eh?!!!
Men will always beat women. At least in the US, those women have rights, a law that protects them and can run to a safe place without fear of death.
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| 173. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:28 am |
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Cruel thing ya
Are you testing my abilities to translate now?
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| 174. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:32 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III:
Cruel thing ya
Are you testing my abilities to translate now? |
aww..sorry ya..
I may translate some of it may be..
They asked the high school graduates why they could not continue with the higher education:
(below is for girls only)
-was not succesful at the exam: 29.8
-successful at the axam but got married so did not go : 14.6
-didnot take the exam, had to work : 14.0
-her family did not let her to go :10.5
-does not like school/education: 9.8
-now a studant : 9.8
-successful at the axam but financial problems : 6.2
-scared of anarchi : 2.2
-successful at the axam but uni was too far: 1.9
-because of Turban: 1.0
If it is true, the storm about turban in universities is for nothing!!
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| 175. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 01:39 am |
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Handsom can you clarify something for me? Am I right in thinking that the headscarf ban only prevents women who will not follow the rule and compromise their belief from entering university. I know some get their education abroad rather than take off their scarf in a Turkish uni. I know several Turkish women who made the compromise and removed their scarves whilst in uni buildings.
My friend's parents were against her wearing the scarf when she decided to do so. Simply because they thought it would prevent her from going to uni. When they realised it didn't they were happier.
I know some male students have points deducted from their test, because of the high school they attend, so they aren't able to go to uni in Turkey. My friend's brother is now a med student in China!
Also, as a hair expert you may know the answer to another question. I thought I read somewhere that men are not allowed to wear beards, for the same sort of reason women are not allowed to wear scarves. Is this so?
Thanks
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| 176. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 02:02 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting alameda: Quarter of U.S. women suffer domestic violence: CDC
This was in the news today...for all those who think domestic relations in the USA have it so great and liberated.
It's also interesting to note:
....11.5 percent of men reported being a victim of what it called "intimate partner violence" at some time in their lives. |
Poor men - 11.5 percent eh?!!!
Men will always beat women. At least in the US, those women have rights, a law that protects them and can run to a safe place without fear of death. |
There must be a better way. Women I've known who have gone to shelters didn't have it that easy either. Any domestic violence is too much...against men or woman.
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| 177. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 02:06 am |
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R U still discussing this topic under the umbrella of Feminism? hmm, it's so funny... now i'm giving my speech to the Holy Quran. what does Quran says in the Surah of Light? please read the below and please close this topic as soon as possible...
"31. And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful."
as you have read that Quran doesn't mention anything about Turban or Headscarfs. This verse clearly states that women should protect their decency and not show their sexual organs (breasts, or bosoms) with their scarfs instead of hiding the hairs. In Arabia, women uses head-coverings to protect their heads from the hot sun, because of the climate. Consequently the Quran doesn't say strictly cover your heads. Please keep in mind that Quran never bans sexual relationships or sexuality, but IT calls the people to act rightly and respectfully.
In short, Quran wants the women to act rightly and to protect their chastity, NOT hiding the hair with a turban.
using turban or headscarf is not related to Islam and can't be identified as an individual freedom. using Turban is a reflection of ignorance and not knowing the context of Islam. Turban is used as a trump by the ignorant and USA-Israel supported Islamic politicians to exploit the people, to establish a state of Islam, to destroy the Kemalist Revolition, and to betray the Islam.
I hope some of the depressive Feminist ladiez will understand the real things about Turban problem in Turkey and stop discussing this topic.
cuz that's enough...
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| 178. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 02:31 am |
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Quoting adonis:
as you have read that Quran doesn't mention anything about Turban or Headscarfs. . |
Ohhhhhh,NOT againnnn!
Quoting adonis:
that's enough... |
With THAT i agree,it has been disscused 1000000 timess
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| 179. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 02:32 am |
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Quoting adonis: R U still discussing this topic under the umbrella of Feminism? hmm, it's so funny... now i'm giving my speech to the Holy Quran. what does Quran says in the Surah of Light? please read the below and please close this topic as soon as possible...
"31. And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful."
as you have read that Quran doesn't mention anything about Turban or Headscarfs. This verse clearly states that women should protect their decency and not show their sexual organs (breasts, or bosoms) with their scarfs instead of hiding the hairs. In Arabia, women uses head-coverings to protect their heads from the hot sun, because of the climate. Consequently the Quran doesn't say strictly cover your heads. Please keep in mind that Quran never bans sexual relationships or sexuality, but IT calls the people to act rightly and respectful.
In short, Quran wants the women to act rightly and to protect their chastity, NOT hiding the hair with a turban.
using turban or headscarf is not related to Islam and can't be identified as an individual freedom. using Turban is a reflection of ignorance and not knowing the context of Islam. Turban is used as a trump by the ignorant and USA-Israel supported Islamic politicians to exploit the people, to establish a state of Islam, to destroy the Kemalist Revolition, and to betray the Islam.
I hope some of the depressive Feminist ladiez will understand the real things about Turban problem in Turkey and stop discussing this topic.
cuz that's enough... |
Hijab is mentioned in the Qur'an several times but, you are right, not in the context that it should be a dress code for Muslim women.
So, if we have established that hijab/scarf is not a compulsory requirement for muslim women and merely a historical/cultural phenomenon, what is the problem in allowing women to wear what they want in public establishments in Turkey?
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| 180. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 02:36 am |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting adonis:
as you have read that Quran doesn't mention anything about Turban or Headscarfs. . |
Ohhhhhh,NOT againnnn!
Quoting adonis:
that's enough... |
With THAT i agree,it has been disscused 1000000 timess |
+1000000000
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| 181. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 02:46 am |
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Quoting adonis: R U still discussing this topic under the umbrella of Feminism?
I hope some of the depressive Feminist ladiez will understand the real things about Turban problem in Turkey and stop discussing this topic.
cuz that's enough... |
What is wrong with discussing it and how come you can say 'that is enough'?
You must be joking..
I still dont understand what is bothering you?
Hay allah ya!!
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| 182. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 03:30 am |
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Quoting adonis: please read the below and please close this topic as soon as possible... |
Are you admin or sth?  
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| 183. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 05:33 pm |
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Quoting alameda: Quarter of U.S. women suffer domestic violence: CDC
This was in the news today...for all those who think domestic relations in the USA have it so great and liberated.
It's also interesting to note:
....11.5 percent of men reported being a victim of what it called "intimate partner violence" at some time in their lives. |
alameda you are so right in saying the women in America are victims of violence. I am sure we all know someone who has been thru this, if we have not been our ourselves. However, society as a whole does not perpetuate the problem. The perpetrators in these "crimes" are seen as criminals and treated as such. I think the level of acceptance of violence is much higher in some other countries. In the US, women are not stoned or condemned to death for being raped or forced to marry men who are twice our age or forced to cover ourselves and then beaten in the street if we don't. Thanks for bringing awareness to the violence that continues in the US...but I don't think you can even compare it to what happens to women elsewhere.
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| 184. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 05:44 pm |
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I have only just realized the YT vid where a Turkish woman gets beaten up and people are just watching :-S WHO can watch such a thing and NOT do something? Id be scared to death to be stabbed with a knife or something, but instead of using my cell to film Id use it to call the police!
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| 185. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 06:35 pm |
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Quoting Deli_kizin: I have only just realized the YT vid where a Turkish woman gets beaten up and people are just watching :-S WHO can watch such a thing and NOT do something? Id be scared to death to be stabbed with a knife or something, but instead of using my cell to film Id use it to call the police!
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sick reality.
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| 186. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 07:33 pm |
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I think it is important we keep this topic going....for Adonis' sake
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| 187. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 07:34 pm |
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For the sake of adonis, I will continue! Three cheers for adonis!!
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| 188. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 08:11 pm |
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Huzzah for adonis!!! 
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| 189. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 08:12 pm |
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Ummm.......can someone remind me why exactly we are cheering adoins?
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| 191. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 09:01 pm |
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Quoting adonis: can someone explain me why some of the aged ladiez are here and write just for fun without writing logical entries? do they want to show their degenerated perceptions and jealous for Turkey and Turkish Culture? |
They are aged, and you are handsome? What world is this.
We are not jealous of turkey and turkish culture. But we love it. And becaue we love it, we look at it with a critical eye. We would not bother to do so, if we did not care.
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| 192. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 09:05 pm |
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Well Mr.Philospher...This is a 'F O R U M '...that means
it is a 'public meeting'place for open discussion.
D I S C U S S I O N....get it?
The 'aged ' you so eloquently mentioned has nothing to do
with an open forum for discussing different topics.
This happens to be an On-Line Turkish Class where one can
assume there would be many Turkish people here wishing
to learn English as well.
Subjects vary due to the 'Forum MarketPlace'. Turkey is
a very special place for many around the world. I happen
to think it will play an extremely vital role in world
affairs before too long.
Again , no 'aged ' ladies are here to bash Turkey. They
are here to ask , seek, discuss, clarify, question and
at times...yes....perhaps disagree....
Are they not allowed to disagree ?.... Many men disagree,
both 'aged' and not so 'aged '....Young and old.
I think it's fine....sit back and learn a few things...
Ciao amico mio ......
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| 193. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 09:10 pm |
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eddie,
who are you?
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| 194. |
08 Feb 2008 Fri 10:06 pm |
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Quoting eddie: Well Mr.Philospher...This is a 'F O R U M '...that means
it is a 'public meeting'place for open discussion.
D I S C U S S I O N....get it?
The 'aged ' you so eloquently mentioned has nothing to do
with an open forum for discussing different topics.
This happens to be an On-Line Turkish Class where one can
assume there would be many Turkish people here wishing
to learn English as well.
Subjects vary due to the 'Forum MarketPlace'. Turkey is
a very special place for many around the world. I happen
to think it will play an extremely vital role in world
affairs before too long.
Again , no 'aged ' ladies are here to bash Turkey. They
are here to ask , seek, discuss, clarify, question and
at times...yes....perhaps disagree....
Are they not allowed to disagree ?.... Many men disagree,
both 'aged' and not so 'aged '....Young and old.
I think it's fine....sit back and learn a few things...
Ciao amico mio ......
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eddie you are sweet to try, but do you really expect to get thru to a man who calls himself "Adonis"
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| 195. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 12:07 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: eddie,
who are you? |
More to the point Femme, who are YOU?
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| 196. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 05:47 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: eddie,
who are you? |
More to the point Femme, who are YOU? |
i just wonder of this eddie thing.
how come i donno him?
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| 197. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 08:59 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: eddie,
who are you? |
More to the point Femme, who are YOU? |
do you know him, eanigma?
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| 198. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 09:01 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: do you know him, eanigma? |
You have the memory of a fish Fatey_Fomme
It was Ed who gave me the title of "Queen of TC" remember? 
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| 199. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 09:06 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: do you know him, eanigma? |
You have the memory of a fish Fatey_Fomme
It was Ed who gave me the title of "Queen of TC" remember? |
of course, i remember, my memory never fails to such events.
but who eddie is?
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| 200. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 09:08 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: of course, i remember, my memory never fails to such events.
but who eddie is? |
What do you mean, who is Eddie? Do you want him to post his CV on the site?
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| 201. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 09:10 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: of course, i remember, my memory never fails to such events.
but who eddie is? |
What do you mean, who is Eddie? Do you want him to post his CV on the site? |
you know i just want to have a closer look onto this member
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| 202. |
09 Feb 2008 Sat 09:11 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: you know i just want to have a closer look onto this member |
Send him your msn then (if he has not already read it on the toilet door)
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