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turkish mother in laws
(70 Messages in 7 pages - View all)
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1.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:15 am

Dears,
due to some unfortunate circumstances, we are in the situation of receiving my grandmother in law to live with us ...
She is a nice woman, she likes me, but still the idea of living in the same house with her cant put a smile on my face ...
I want to ask your opinion about turkish mothers in law
of course its not a stereotype, but still, just as idea ...
Thanks!

2.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:25 am

the idea of living with parents is not good.

3.       Cacık
296 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:31 am

Hi Inankur - from what I have seen in my few years here, is that mums-in-law (MLI) do become part of your everyday life. I feel that in Turkey, this is the norm and tends to go with the flow of things. For example, MIL will often call the daughter (in-law) to help or prepare food together, or clean together..... This very obviously can depend on the type of family you are married into, traditional or utterly modern, and will vary hugely.

My advice to you is this, if you are a very private couple who love your time alone together, you need to set up some sort of boundaries whereby at certain times each week, you must have privacy and perhaps have the salon to yourselves and be strong enough to stick to it, making sure your husband will support this (nothing worse that son giving into MIL).

Also, don't change who you are and the way you act together. A Turkish friend of mine had to stop kissing her husband on the check or holding his hand whenever his mother came to stay. Very sad and it really upset my friend because she totally loves her husband. Of course, this is extreme and unlikely to happen to you. My point is don't start giving in and changing the way you both natural are together in order keep the peace, MIL should also adapt to change.

Just be sure to discuss all your worries with your husband BEFORE MIL arrives. Don't wait for problems to start before talking.

Agony Aunt Cacık

4.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:38 am

Quoting Cacık:

Hi Inankur - from what I have seen in my few years here, is that mums-in-law (MLI) do become part of your everyday life. I feel that in Turkey, this is the norm and tends to go with the flow of things. For example, MIL will often call the daughter (in-law) to help or prepare food together, or clean together..... This very obviously can depend on the type of family you are married into, traditional or utterly modern, and will vary hugely.

My advice to you is this, if you are a very private couple who love your time alone together, you need to set up some sort of boundaries whereby at certain times each week, you must have privacy and perhaps have the salon to yourselves and be strong enough to stick to it, making sure your husband will support this (nothing worse that son giving into MIL).

Also, don't change who you are and the way you act together. A Turkish friend of mine had to stop kissing her husband on the check or holding his hand whenever his mother came to stay. Very sad and it really upset my friend because she totally loves her husband. Of course, this is extreme and unlikely to happen to you. My point is don't start giving in and changing the way you both natural are together in order keep the peace, MIL should also adapt to change.

Just be sure to discuss all your worries with your husband BEFORE MIL arrives. Don't wait for problems to start before talking.

Agony Aunt Cacık



now aunty, you made me lol

5.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:44 am

Quoting Cacık:

Hi Inankur - from what I have seen in my few years here, is that mums-in-law (MLI) do become part of your everyday life. I feel that in Turkey, this is the norm and tends to go with the flow of things. For example, MIL will often call the daughter (in-law) to help or prepare food together, or clean together..... This very obviously can depend on the type of family you are married into, traditional or utterly modern, and will vary hugely.


it really doesnt matter, even if the mother is we all want to live separate. thats why we leave and build our own life. living in clans is horrible.
mothers always mother.

Quoting Cacık:


My advice to you is this, if you are a very private couple who love your time alone together, you need to set up some sort of boundaries whereby at certain times each week, you must have privacy and perhaps have the salon to yourselves and be strong enough to stick to it, making sure your husband will support this (nothing worse that son giving into MIL).


if you decide to live together, why not compromise? why not try to change?

Quoting Cacık:


Also, don't change who you are and the way you act together. A Turkish friend of mine had to stop kissing her husband on the check or holding his hand whenever his mother came to stay. Very sad and it really upset my friend because she totally loves her husband. Of course, this is extreme and unlikely to happen to you. My point is don't start giving in and changing the way you both natural are together in order keep the peace, MIL should also adapt to change.

Just be sure to discuss all your worries with your husband BEFORE MIL arrives. Don't wait for problems to start before talking.

Agony Aunt Cacık


my conclusion, dont let other people destroy your marriage. even angels can be annoying.

6.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:53 am

we had her staying for a 2 weeks in home -because she is in process of divorcing my father in law... and she is always saying: KESKE you didnt put meat in the makarna. Keske you didnt put tuna fish in the salat.Keske we would have meyve suyu instead of Cola!
KESKE KESKE ...
plus she is not working, and we are living here with rent + the expenses, plus that she has her own debts and no SSK ... etc etc ...
so its like we need to take care of her from now on ...
she is modern, too modern i might say, she likes Brands and social meetings ...
this as an idea girls, that she is not an angel, no way ...
My husband knows her very well, he doesnt want for her to move in, but in this "without escape" situation we have no way ...

I wont change anything about us and i will continue putting ET in the MAKARNAAAA!!!!!!!!
hehehhee

7.       Cacık
296 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:56 am

Hi Femme
You know exactly what I meant about don't change the way you are together, I mean you shouldn't compromise on the love and affection you feel and show to each other (of course I don't mean one could fornicate on the lounge floor infront of MLI - that obviously would be disatrous).
You are just being pedantic!

I agree with you that parents shouldn't live with their kids as the norm, couldn't agree more in fact - but Inankur says that there are different circumstances that makes it necessary. Surely even you don't advocate kicking your own parents or in-laws out in difficult circumstances ?

Oh and the aunty thing - just a joke, sorry to offend you FF if that was your position.

8.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:56 am

Quoting Inankur:

we had her staying for a 2 weeks in home -because she is in process of divorcing my father in law... and she is always saying: KESKE you didnt put meat in the makarna. Keske you didnt put tuna fish in the salat.Keske we would have meyve suyu instead of Cola!
KESKE KESKE ...
plus she is not working, and we are living here with rent + the expenses, plus that she has her own debts and no SSK ... etc etc ...
so its like we need to take care of her from now on ...
she is modern, too modern i might say, she likes Brands and social meetings ...
this as an idea girls, that she is not an angel, no way ...
My husband knows her very well, he doesnt want for her to move in, but in this "without escape" situation we have no way ...

I wont change anything about us and i will continue putting ET in the MAKARNAAAA!!!!!!!!
hehehhee


It does not sound very promising. lol

9.       Cacık
296 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 11:57 am

Only just read Inankur's post after I posted previous messgae to FF.

10.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:02 pm

i wonder if after the divorce she will get a alimony from father in law or smth. cuz he stays with the house, he is architect so he has money etc etc ... turkish law says anything in these cases?

11.       Cacık
296 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:07 pm

Google search "Turkish divorce laws" - you should find some pages in English.

12.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:18 pm

DIKKKATTTTTTTT GIRLSSSS
Turkish Civil Law has no statement on sharing the movables and immovable. In case of divorce, please note that the immovable items (house, car, etc.) are under the ownership of the party on which said items are registered. Movable objects (furniture, refrigerator, TV etc) belong to the party "who got them first".
It may sound like high jacking but unfortunately this is the reality.

13.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:21 pm

Quoting Cacık:

Hi Inankur - from what I have seen in my few years here, is that mums-in-law (MLI) do become part of your everyday life. I feel that in Turkey, this is the norm and tends to go with the flow of things. For example, MIL will often call the daughter (in-law) to help or prepare food together, or clean together..... This very obviously can depend on the type of family you are married into, traditional or utterly modern, and will vary hugely.

My advice to you is this, if you are a very private couple who love your time alone together, you need to set up some sort of boundaries whereby at certain times each week, you must have privacy and perhaps have the salon to yourselves and be strong enough to stick to it, making sure your husband will support this (nothing worse that son giving into MIL).

Also, don't change who you are and the way you act together. A Turkish friend of mine had to stop kissing her husband on the check or holding his hand whenever his mother came to stay. Very sad and it really upset my friend because she totally loves her husband. Of course, this is extreme and unlikely to happen to you. My point is don't start giving in and changing the way you both natural are together in order keep the peace, MIL should also adapt to change.

Just be sure to discuss all your worries with your husband BEFORE MIL arrives. Don't wait for problems to start before talking.

Agony Aunt Cacık


I would only add to this: make rules with the MIL at the very beginning about who does what, where, how, when... anything that's important to you and don't be afraid to "hurt her feelings" by making the rules!

14.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:23 pm

Quoting Cacık:

Hi Femme
You know exactly what I meant about don't change the way you are together, I mean you shouldn't compromise on the love and affection you feel and show to each other (of course I don't mean one could fornicate on the lounge floor infront of MLI - that obviously would be disatrous).
You are just being pedantic!


hi cacik
lol i thought of everyday life not about showing love

Quoting Cacık:



I agree with you that parents shouldn't live with their kids as the norm, couldn't agree more in fact - but Inankur says that there are different circumstances that makes it necessary. Surely even you don't advocate kicking your own parents or in-laws out in difficult circumstances ?



hi cacik
well, im not that heartless beach at all, of course i love my mom, i would take care of her. but i would try to find another flat or house. living together would limit privacy of each of us. she wouldnt feel free with my husband, and my husband would suffer that he cant behave natural

Quoting Cacık:



Oh and the aunty thing - just a joke, sorry to offend you FF if that was your position.



hi cacik
no, no, you havent offended me at all. it is actually aenigms position, not mine

i get offended! im such an

15.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:28 pm

Quoting Inankur:

we had her staying for a 2 weeks in home -because she is in process of divorcing my father in law... and she is always saying: KESKE you didnt put meat in the makarna. Keske you didnt put tuna fish in the salat.Keske we would have meyve suyu instead of Cola!
KESKE KESKE ...


OMG
im not envious of your situation

Quoting Inankur:


plus she is not working, and we are living here with rent + the expenses, plus that she has her own debts and no SSK ... etc etc ...
so its like we need to take care of her from now on ...
she is modern, too modern i might say, she likes Brands and social meetings ...


one thing comes to idea, with this situation 'no making children' at least for now

Quoting Inankur:


this as an idea girls, that she is not an angel, no way ...
My husband knows her very well, he doesnt want for her to move in, but in this 'without escape' situation we have no way ...


hope, its temporary.

Quoting Inankur:


I wont change anything about us and i will continue putting ET in the MAKARNAAAA!!!!!!!!
hehehhee


lol

16.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:35 pm

to inankur,
just try to handle it as much as you can.
dont let yourself become a victim, and dont let her feel a victim as well.
life is tough

17.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 12:46 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

to inankur,
just try to handle it as much as you can.
dont let yourself become a victim, and dont let her feel a victim as well.
life is tough



Thank you girls! dont worry, when she tells me to make smth or why i didnt do smth - from the KESKE category - i will pretend my turkish is too poor for her demands
she cant defeat a romanian girl!
life is enough tough, we dont need another "elements' for making it tougher ...
PEACE AND LOVE GIRLS!!!

18.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:00 pm

Inankur,
You can not approach this problem with a Western philosophy.

Search for Liu Young in Google and see what this artist has to say about the difference between Western and Eastern cultures. It is funny and may help you put certain things in correct perspective.

19.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:22 pm

Quoting AlphaF:

Inankur,
You can not approach this problem with a Western philosophy.

Search for Liu Young in Google and see what this artist has to say about the difference between Western and Eastern cultures. It is funny and may help you put certain things in correct perspective.



Dear Alpha,
I wrote you such a long and argumentative message but smth happened! Yes, you guessed: typical turkish - electricity went we really need UPS in the office
Anyway, the idea is : when a person comes in your home and starts saying: why are you buying so many dvds, see the movies to the TV, why are you smoking pipo, it smells in the house or give me 200 ytl to pay my taksits, takes the credit cards and spends from them ... no matter if is friend, or mother ... this cant produce happiness to anyone ... not even to my husband ...
i will read what you recommended, but i am sure my opinion wont change ...

20.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:27 pm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/492094/
East-Vs-West-A-good-observation-represented-pictorially-to-understand-culture-

it was nice Alpha ...Thanks!
But in this situation, eastern and western agree!

21.       MrX67
2540 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:31 pm

theres 2 answers for this question,and thats a big pleasure for traditional Turkish families to live all toghether all generations in the same home,while life realities getting more different for ''modern?''Turkish families,so life really singing so different songs for this 2 main different family typesand i believe that its really big pleasure and honor to have a ''life plane'' around us

22.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:38 pm

Well..
Since you say there will be something for your MIL after the divorce, just get her a flat and find a woman who would come and help her in the house (her house) everyday. And take her into your house at certain intervals..Ie a week each time for total not more than 1 1/2 months in a year.
That is what my solution would be..

23.       Inankur
131 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 01:43 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

Well..
Since you say there will be something for your MIL after the divorce, just get her a flat and find a woman who would come and help her in the house (her house) everyday. And take her into your house at certain intervals..Ie a week each time for total not more than 1 1/2 months in a year.
That is what my solution would be..



i dont think it will be smth after the divorce cuz she ate already my fathers in law money. actually this is the reason for divorcing

24.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 04:53 pm

I hate to burst your bubble....NEVER NEVER NEVER live with your parents...I would take a second job to get an apartment for her before I had her move in with me. Something close by so she can share meals and spend time with you and not be lonely...but not under the same roof. Just my thoughts.

25.       eddie
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 05:08 pm

One hundred percent correct Elisabeth! I moved out at 17,
joined the Navy, and never looked back.
My sister on the other hand stayed.......Still there after
many years.....not a good life choice.
Get out on your own, pay your dues and live your life
with all it's mistakes, messes and some joy.....

26.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:17 pm

If you get along well and respect eachothers privacy why should it be a problem to live together? Not for forever, but as a temporary solution.
I dislike how people in modern society don't have anything to do with eachother. Family is important.

27.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:25 pm

Quoting azade:

If you get along well and respect eachothers privacy


are you sure you are talking about eastern people regarding privacy?
theres no such a thing called a privacy in the east. thats why they live all generations together, in clans.

Quoting azade:



I dislike how people in modern society don't have anything to do with eachother. Family is important.



awwwwwwwww how romantic!

28.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:33 pm

The terms of living in clans and generations are not the same thing
If you feel social you stay in the salon or if you're not you can go to your room or out. It's not really different from "the west" except people more often prefer to stay together.
Antisocializm is overrated

29.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:34 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:


theres no such a thing called a privacy in the east. thats why they live all generations together, in clans.


haha
This is so true!!

30.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:38 pm

Where do you guys come from?

I talk from my experiences in the very south eastern corner of Turkey shouldn't that be the most "extreme" in terms of "backwardness" Or where is that then?

31.       alameda
3499 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:45 pm

Quoting azade:

If you get along well and respect eachothers privacy why should it be a problem to live together? Not for forever, but as a temporary solution.
I dislike how people in modern society don't have anything to do with eachother. Family is important.



I agree with you Azade. I've seen so many in New York City who wanted their privacy, living alone and getting more and more eccentric.

It's easy to think one is patient and compassionate when you only have to think of yourself. The outcome I've seen though is a mess.

32.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:46 pm

Quoting azade:

Where do you guys come from?

I talk from my experiences in the very south eastern corner of Turkey shouldn't that be the most "extreme" in terms of "backwardness" Or where is that then?



azade, come on, please, dont play a stupid girl, ok?
and dont think you deal with idiots

i understand you try now to defend your unique experiences even though you are opposing easterners themselves

33.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:55 pm

Can you just stick to the topic and perhaps give your view on it.

34.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 08:58 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

I hate to burst your bubble....NEVER NEVER NEVER live with your parents...I would take a second job to get an apartment for her before I had her move in with me. Something close by so she can share meals and spend time with you and not be lonely...but not under the same roof. Just my thoughts.


+10000000

35.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:02 pm

Quoting azade:

Can you just stick to the topic and perhaps give your view on it.


im still on the topic

i just cant stand your romantic advises

36.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:03 pm

Quoting azade:

If you get along well and respect eachothers privacy why should it be a problem to live together? Not for forever, but as a temporary solution.
I dislike how people in modern society don't have anything to do with eachother. Family is important.



azade, I get along very well with my and my husbands family. Of course family is important. I think it is very important to take care of your parents/family members when they need help, but I don't think that has to mean they will come and live in your house. I think it is important to help people stand on their own two feet. It's not wrong to think this way azade....its just different than what you would do.

37.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:06 pm

Quoting azade:

If you get along well and respect eachothers privacy why should it be a problem to live together? Not for forever, but as a temporary solution.
I dislike how people in modern society don't have anything to do with eachother. Family is important.


This is rather naive canim and VERY stereotypical of the West!!! There's nothing wrong with liking to be a tight family, but really, your views are soooooooooo black and white...

38.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:06 pm

Quoting alameda:



I agree with you Azade. I've seen so many in New York City who wanted their privacy, living alone and getting more and more eccentric.


OMG, how evil is NY!!!
how evil is USA, and the whole west!

Quoting alameda:



It's easy to think one is patient and compassionate when you only have to think of yourself. The outcome I've seen though is a mess.



a mess is when there are rules where elders rule over youngs and turn their lives into hell.
and the young have to stay and bear all that stupid things thanks to the f... traditions.

39.       teaschip
3870 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:17 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting alameda:



I agree with you Azade. I've seen so many in New York City who wanted their privacy, living alone and getting more and more eccentric.


OMG, how evil is NY!!!
how evil is USA, and the whole west!

Quoting alameda:



It's easy to think one is patient and compassionate when you only have to think of yourself. The outcome I've seen though is a mess.



a mess is when there are rules where elders rule over youngs and turn their lives into hell.
and the young have to stay and bear all that stupid things thanks to the f... traditions.



Are you talking about age again... lol Watch out for you know who....We have a modo here in the U.S. if you can't take care of yourself, your shit out of luck.

40.       alameda
3499 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:19 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting alameda:



I agree with you Azade. I've seen so many in New York City who wanted their privacy, living alone and getting more and more eccentric.


OMG, how evil is NY!!!
how evil is USA, and the whole west!

Quoting alameda:



It's easy to think one is patient and compassionate when you only have to think of yourself. The outcome I've seen though is a mess.



a mess is when there are rules where elders rule over youngs and turn their lives into hell.
and the young have to stay and bear all that stupid things thanks to the f... traditions.



No, not evil femme...just misguided. If you saw what I saw, you would reconsider things. I saw many who lived alone in their apartments and had to have meals delivered to them. I went to visit them to give them some companionship. They had children, but they had moved many miles away and never saw them. They were so lonely. To me it was very sad.

You do have a point in the way some elders rule over the young ones. They can be very dictatorial. It's something one has to be very gentle with.

Then there were the actors, singers and other artists who came to NY to be a star, but never did. They were now old and alone. The apartments were a mess. Instead of looking like homes, they looked like some cave they dragged things into. Garments strewn all over, dirty dishes in the sink. One man who lived in my building was a pack rat and his apartment was so crowded with things he could only get into the door a little way.

This is not an uncommon thing. It seems to be a syndrome associated with living alone.

41.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:31 pm

guys, i give up!

inankur, go and live with you MIL and be nice to her.
actually in the eastern culture DIL serve MIL and the whole family. in many families women serve 24/7!
so good luck!

42.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:35 pm

Each to their own, whichever lifestyle they prefer that's fine. It's great that everyone are busy with projects and goals in their own lives, it's just very typical to forget about the social factor that the family plays. I was simply adding a different view which is quite relevant in many societies nowadays.

This is not a stereotype opinion, it's sociology in which there are four types of families each with their pros and cons if anybody's heard of such thing

43.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:53 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

guys, i give up!

inankur, go and live with you MIL and be nice to her.
actually in the eastern culture DIL serve MIL and the whole family. in many families women serve 24/7!
so good luck!





Actually femme I agree with you. There's families in which the "new" DILs do a lot of household chores, especially if the MIL is (somewhat) elderly. The longer in the family and the older you get, the higher you go in "rank". Except it's not just in DIL/MIL relationships. In some situations you get to boss around those younger than you. Coming from northern Europe it's still very strange for me to send children around to fetch something for me

44.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:56 pm

Quoting alameda:

No, not evil femme...just misguided. If you saw what I saw, you would reconsider things. I saw many who lived alone in their apartments and had to have meals delivered to them. I went to visit them to give them some companionship. They had children, but they had moved many miles away and never saw them. They were so lonely. To me it was very sad.

You do have a point in the way some elders rule over the young ones. They can be very dictatorial. It's something one has to be very gentle with.

Then there were the actors, singers and other artists who came to NY to be a star, but never did. They were now old and alone. The apartments were a mess. Instead of looking like homes, they looked like some cave they dragged things into. Garments strewn all over, dirty dishes in the sink. One man who lived in my building was a pack rat and his apartment was so crowded with things he could only get into the door a little way.

This is not an uncommon thing. It seems to be a syndrome associated with living alone.


Alameda, I see your point and I agree with you that there are many lonely people out there, even when they have children who almost forgot about them... It's definitely sad that the community doesn't take care of these people and that their children don't care.

The issue of you ONLY criticizing teaschip (why btw RESPONDED to alpha's post!!!) for making comments about age and COMPLETELY ignoring ANY posts from alpha or adonis is biased and hypocritical. It's simply funny to say that you "didn't see them", because that's all they write all the time. I'm sure you didn't miss that, you just never criticize "those of your own".

45.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 09:59 pm

Quoting azade:

Actually femme I agree with you. There's families in which the "new" DILs do a lot of household chores, especially if the MIL is (somewhat) elderly. The longer in the family and the older you get, the higher you go in "rank". Except it's not just in DIL/MIL relationships. In some situations you get to boss around those younger than you. Coming from northern Europe it's still very strange for me to send children around to fetch something for me


YET, your view of the east seems to be that they are saints and the west is racist evil who have NO values! That's the message I get from your posts at least... lol

46.       azade
1606 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:01 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting azade:

Actually femme I agree with you. There's families in which the "new" DILs do a lot of household chores, especially if the MIL is (somewhat) elderly. The longer in the family and the older you get, the higher you go in "rank". Except it's not just in DIL/MIL relationships. In some situations you get to boss around those younger than you. Coming from northern Europe it's still very strange for me to send children around to fetch something for me


YET, your view of the east seems to be that they are saints and the west is racist evil who have NO values! That's the message I get from your posts at least... lol



lol I think those with a low rank disagree and would love to live somewhere else where they could tell off the person bossing them around lol

47.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:04 pm

Quoting azade:

lol I think those with a low rank disagree and would love to live somewhere else where they could tell off the person bossing them around lol


See, I hate the hierarchy to begin with! In the west people are treated much more equally and based on their actual qualifications, not based on age or "rank"! I was raised in a similar system, so don't you argue with me that I don't know this system well enough! I know very well the advantages and disadvantages of both.

48.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:11 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting azade:

lol I think those with a low rank disagree and would love to live somewhere else where they could tell off the person bossing them around lol


See, I hate the hierarchy to begin with! In the west people are treated much more equally and based on their actual qualifications, not based on age or "rank"! I was raised in a similar system, so don't you argue with me that I don't know enough!



Wouldn't it be nice if we took care of people because we love them dearly....and not out of a sense of obligation. My parents are older. They live about 2 miles away from my home. Everyday I stop and check on them. We have meals together at least twice a week. We go shopping together BUT I go home to MY HOUSE and they go home to THEIR HOUSE. I love them very much and I feel very compelled to take care of them....but having them live with me is not something that I would enjoy. If one of them was very ill, maybe that would change, but I think that is a little different.

49.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:20 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

Wouldn't it be nice if we took care of people because we love them dearly....and not out of a sense of obligation. My parents are older. They live about 2 miles away from my home. Everyday I stop and check on them. We have meals together at least twice a week. We go shopping together BUT I go home to MY HOUSE and they go home to THEIR HOUSE. I love them very much and I feel very compelled to take care of them....but having them live with me is not something that I would enjoy. If one of them was very ill, maybe that would change, but I think that is a little different.


That is very well said Elisabeth! The society should value parents when they get older, but not FORCE the children to do everything for their parents out of the sense of subordination. In eastern mentality older people get a lot of privilages just because of their age, it is very common for them to mistreat the younger ones and boss around (just look at alpha as a good example, though he also has a male privilage being raised in a staunch patriarchy). It is sooooooooo anti-self-esteem for children and young people, they are NOT valued appropriately, they are treated as slaves for the older ones. It's a real hierarchy.

50.       alameda
3499 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:22 pm

I was talking with a friend who can't sit on the floor anymore. She used to be able to, but not having done it for a long time, now she can't.

Living with others requires practice. If you live alone, or with your mate, you don't learn to make accomodations.

When it's something you do all the time, you don't notice it.

all the lonely people

51.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:22 pm

In laws????!!! I call them "out laws"

52.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:24 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

In laws????!!! I call them "out laws"


lol

53.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:25 pm

Quoting alameda:

I was talking with a friend who can't sit on the floor anymore. She used to be able to, but not having done it for a long time, now she can't.

Living with others requires practice. If you live alone, or with your mate, you don't learn to make accomodations.

When it's something you do all the time, you don't notice it.


Cnm, this is a bit sanctimooooooonious... Have you considered being a preacher? lol

54.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:28 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting Elisabeth:

Wouldn't it be nice if we took care of people because we love them dearly....and not out of a sense of obligation. My parents are older. They live about 2 miles away from my home. Everyday I stop and check on them. We have meals together at least twice a week. We go shopping together BUT I go home to MY HOUSE and they go home to THEIR HOUSE. I love them very much and I feel very compelled to take care of them....but having them live with me is not something that I would enjoy. If one of them was very ill, maybe that would change, but I think that is a little different.


That is very well said Elisabeth! The society should value parents when they get older, but not FORCE the children to do everything for their parents out of the sense of subordination. In eastern mentality older people get a lot of privilages just because of their age, it is very common for them to mistreat the younger ones and boss around (just look at alpha as a good example, though he also has a male privilage being raised in a staunch patriarchy). It is sooooooooo anti-self-esteem for children and young people, they are NOT valued appropriately, they are treated as slaves for the older ones. It's a real hierarchy.



What do you do if you had terrible parents? What if you were beaten or abused by them? I know people who have been in that situation too. They felt no obligation to take care of their parents. I can't say I blame them. Compassion is not obligatory.

55.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:28 pm

oh, no
we have enough TC imams!

56.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:28 pm

Quoting catwoman:

sanctimooooooonious



Sorry but I have copyright on that word

57.       alameda
3499 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:31 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

I was talking with a friend who can't sit on the floor anymore. She used to be able to, but not having done it for a long time, now she can't.

Living with others requires practice. If you live alone, or with your mate, you don't learn to make accomodations.

When it's something you do all the time, you don't notice it.


Cnm, this is a bit sanctimooooooonious... Have you considered being a preacher? lol



sanctimony=Feigned piety or righteousness; hypocritical devoutness or high-mindedness

I think your choice of words is not accurate. What I've stated is a fact.

58.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:31 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

In laws????!!! I call them "out laws"



Do you have regular shoot outs with yours?

59.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:31 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:

What do you do if you had terrible parents? What if you were beaten or abused by them? I know people who have been in that situation too. They felt no obligation to take care of their parents. I can't say I blame them. Compassion is not obligatory.


Sooooo right! From my own experience, if you had abusive parents, nobody knows about it, it is covered up most of the time . The children grow up severely disadvantaged, with a very low self esteem, barely finish school or become criminals later in life... They don't ever see a psychologist and most of the time they internalize the abuse. And by the way, most parents beat their children at some point.

60.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:32 pm

They got thrown to the garbage along with my ex

61.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:32 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting catwoman:

sanctimooooooonious



Sorry but I have copyright on that word


Sorry, but I'm an anarchist and I hate your capitalistic greedy laws.

62.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:34 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Sorry, but I'm an anarchist and I hate your capitalistic greedy laws.


Hate it all you like but you owe me $20

63.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:36 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting catwoman:

Sorry, but I'm an anarchist and I hate your capitalistic greedy laws.


Hate it all you like but you owe me $20


I will sue you first before I give you any money! lol

64.       AEnigma III
0 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:38 pm

Quoting catwoman:

I will sue you first before I give you any money! lol



You bed ameriken

65.       catwoman
8933 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:39 pm

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting catwoman:

I will sue you first before I give you any money! lol



You bed ameriken


I can be bed, but I always win...

66.       elham
579 posts
 13 Feb 2008 Wed 10:50 pm

Quoting Elisabeth:


Wouldn't it be nice if we took care of people because we love them dearly....and not out of a sense of obligation. My parents are older. They live about 2 miles away from my home. Everyday I stop and check on them. We have meals together at least twice a week. We go shopping together BUT I go home to MY HOUSE and they go home to THEIR HOUSE. I love them very much and I feel very compelled to take care of them....but having them live with me is not something that I would enjoy. If one of them was very ill, maybe that would change, but I think that is a little different.


well done
I love my mother in law
she assist me in bringing up my children cause she have good experience in it more than me and my kids love her too much

67.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 14 Feb 2008 Thu 06:44 pm

Quoting alameda:


No, not evil femme...just misguided. If you saw what I saw, you would reconsider things. I saw many who lived alone in their apartments and had to have meals delivered to them. I went to visit them to give them some companionship. They had children, but they had moved many miles away and never saw them. They were so lonely. To me it was very sad.

You do have a point in the way some elders rule over the young ones. They can be very dictatorial. It's something one has to be very gentle with.

Then there were the actors, singers and other artists who came to NY to be a star, but never did. They were now old and alone. The apartments were a mess. Instead of looking like homes, they looked like some cave they dragged things into. Garments strewn all over, dirty dishes in the sink. One man who lived in my building was a pack rat and his apartment was so crowded with things he could only get into the door a little way.

This is not an uncommon thing. It seems to be a syndrome associated with living alone.



it always depends on what you are. you can be an annoying old junk or a nice kind oldie.

i wish i didnt live alone when im old, but at the same time dont wanna be a burden to my children.

a mess and dirty dishes in the sink isnt a great deal. i would wish the fate of dirty dishes over a tidy room of a snake.

living in clans is very poisonous, esp, when elders are patronising like you.

68.       alameda
3499 posts
 14 Feb 2008 Thu 07:32 pm

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting alameda:


No, not evil femme...just misguided. If you saw what I saw, you would reconsider things. I saw many who lived alone in their apartments and had to have meals delivered to them. I went to visit them to give them some companionship. They had children, but they had moved many miles away and never saw them. They were so lonely. To me it was very sad.

You do have a point in the way some elders rule over the young ones. They can be very dictatorial. It's something one has to be very gentle with.

Then there were the actors, singers and other artists who came to NY to be a star, but never did. They were now old and alone. The apartments were a mess. Instead of looking like homes, they looked like some cave they dragged things into. Garments strewn all over, dirty dishes in the sink. One man who lived in my building was a pack rat and his apartment was so crowded with things he could only get into the door a little way.

This is not an uncommon thing. It seems to be a syndrome associated with living alone.



it always depends on what you are. you can be an annoying old junk or a nice kind oldie.

i wish i didnt live alone when im old, but at the same time dont wanna be a burden to my children.

a mess and dirty dishes in the sink isnt a great deal. i would wish the fate of dirty dishes over a tidy room of a snake.

living in clans is very poisonous, esp, when elders are patronising like you.




You have some very good points there femme...in particular here "i would wish the fate of dirty dishes over a tidy room of a snake.".......but how about a beautiful tidy room with fresh aromatic flowers and loving companions who care for you?

Of course living in clans can be poisonous...and believe me, I've seen and experienced that too. They are not all that way though. Poisonous clans do not survive, they poison themselves to death.

As for not wanting to live alone when one is old, how about being alone when you are young? Isn't sharing with a loved one better? Life is a struggle. Nothing is easy, but unless you have practice and guidance, things are harder. If you are alone when you are young, you will probably be alone when you are old.

Nobody wants to be a burden on their children, at least most do not. I know I don't want to be a burden on anyone. One would hope to gain the skills so as to not be a burden on anyone. To further that goal, wouldn't being in close proximity to others give more skill in not being a burden?

I do not intend to be patronizing, if that is the impression you get, please excuse my inadequate communication skills. I'm just telling you what I've seen and experienced. You have seen one extreme, I have seen both and been on both sides. Now I see wisdom in staying close to ones family if at all possible.

You can choose your friends. With your family you have no choice. You only keep your friends as long as you are agreeable. Even then, most "friendships" are opportunistic in as much as they are based on mutual interests and geographic location. If it becomes unpleasant or too much trouble, friends depart.

With family, you are bound by blood. Like it or not, even if you hate your family, legally you are still bound to them. If you die, they decide what will happen to what's left of you and your assets. If you become incapacitated, they will decide what's to be done with you. You can leave a living will, but it can be contested.

69.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 14 Feb 2008 Thu 07:59 pm

Indeed very wise observations, Alameda!

70.       Suyu
78 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 12:12 am

I say that a couple should live alone without other people. It doesnt matter if the person is nice or not still the situation takes away your freedom. It is not really "your home" anymore.

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