For Deli_kizin

"Vicdansýz, zalim dünya."

Biz bu sözü þöyle biliriz = "Vicdansýz, zalim insanlar."

Yani, Dünya´nýn ne kabahati var ki, zalim olsun?

Öyle deðil mi?

 Yes, I did miss it................ So we are very similar in that respect - I did end up with a black eye once for interferring

Öyledir tabii. Fakat yakýn bir dostun kanser hastasý olursa ve çaresi artýk kalmamýþ olursa, içmiþ olursa güzel bir kadýnýn yýllarýný, insanýn ne kabahatý var ki, zalim olsun. Bazen de vicdansýz bir dünyada yaþýyoruz. Vicdansýz tanrý/güç de diyebilirdim, ama ona zaten inanmadýðým için, inananlarý da incitmek istemedim.

(Yilgün replied to my message of ´unjust, cruel world´, saying we´d rather say that the people are unjust and cruel, because what fault has the world here?.

Ofcourse it is like that. However, when a close friend of yours becomes a cancerpatient and there is no longer a remedy, when the years of a beautiful woman have been drunken, then what fault has humankind got, to be called cruel. We do live in an unjust world sometimes. I could have said ´unjust, cruel god/power´ as well, but because I don´t believe in it anyhow, I thought I should not hurt the people who do.) 

Anyway this got a bit off topic

 Same sort of thing happened to me, when helping a friend getting away from her (mainly mentally) abusive husband. He punched me in the face and I got a nose bleed. It wouldn´t have been that bad wasn´t it for the fact that blood makes me faint badly!

the worse thing about is that most, i mean the huge majority of those women dont go to police, they dont report it. they stay in a circle of never ending violence. mainly due to the community pressure. in most those countries girls that have been raped are a stain on a family honor. they must be killed. it is always a girl´s fault. it must have been her that behaved or looked too sexually. if they survive they will bear a curse and became a garbage value.

and in such incidents we never talk about rapists, somehow they vanish out of our sight.

if theres a conflict in the marriage and she often gets beaten up, then it always means that it is her fault, she must have been not good enough wife, if she was wiser he wouldnt be that violent. we have a proverb "a bad wife makes his husband a slave - a good wife makes him a king".

 Actually what you say isnt totally true. The honorkillings are in every sense WRONG, but from an anthropologist perspective, what you say isn´t true: in many cases the girl isn´t seen as the one to blame, and the rapist is often seen as the culprit. However there are reason to choose for the girl to get killed and not the rapist. I am NOT saying I have understanding for what I wrote or agree with the type of conduct and behind-laying thoughts, but it is not true that a girl is always blamed for what happened. (I have written this a bit longer in one of my first posts in this thread, if you want to understand exactly what I tried to say here)

But it is a type of conduct I will never be able to have understanding for. What is it, that the ´sexual cleanness´ of a woman is so important for the ´honour of the man´? To be honest, in such a background, I am not surprised at the middle eastern myth that every woman bleeds when she first engages in sexual activity. They must have gotten used to unwilling or unready women.

 if you have carefully read the content of my posts you would not ask these questions.

catwoman previously asked me the same questions. i replied her. but the post got lost, actually nobody pays attention to what i say. she even didnt bother herself to read it.

my suggestions are the same, i trumpeted about it last year. in order to lessen the amount of violence we need education via mass media. turkey (not only) must talk about these issues out loud, there must be held talk shows, documentary films, they should open hotlines, they should invest into a helpline, specialists and well known tv presenters must take part in such activities. they should organise billboards on every wall and street. we must break taboos no matter what backward and religious people speak and react with violence rushing to streets to burn/destroy everything.

as DD has already mentioned how the situation has changed in poland, and i know its true, it works! even 7-8 years ago DV was a taboo. women would not report it. because we have as always stupid proverbs "you dont do laudnry in public" etc etc.

the policemen treated victims with no care, it was one of the reasons why victims wouldnt go to report. it was all trumpeted about, made noise about, there were affairs and articles in the newspapers, people started talking.

a pedophilia was a great taboo as well, nobody was supposed to report on honorable fathers and uncles or priests, it was under a carpet. there were discussions after discussions. some backwarded people told we shouldnt talk about such things, some showed complete ignorance, some were ready to do something.  and it brought a change!

when i looked at a statistics report poland had a highest rate and it is thanks to the actions.

 i havent read your first post.

but i know what im talking about. it is always girls fault, they even get raped within the family and then they never manage to find enough witnesses, the case always gets shut.

and it is very very rare when the real culprits get punished.

after the rape the girl never will have a respect from the community, she lost it forever. she will always be treated like a garbage. end of story. thats it. mentality.

 I read a horrible story of this kind in the newspaper a fews days ago. A Dutch woman had been sexually abused by her elder brother for several years, and her parents KNEW about it!!

 It doesn´t matter whether you know what you are tlaking about or not. But the things you describe happen, maybe even on large scale, but it isnt the ONLY way. Anyway since you didn´t bother to read it, I won´t bother to explain any further.

Yes. Mentality. That is the problem here. I think I´ll have a good look at the link vineyards posted for the organisations in Turkey. I still didn´t figure out where my education is bringing me on the job-market.

 that woman will get a support or even a shelter if shes poor.

and this will not happen to a typical eastern woman, her life ends there even though her life wasnt colorful before. and this is im talking about. the difference. it is painful, i know their lives, i know it, its not just an article i read or statistics i saw. it is a real life, a life in hell. and we just touched the top of an iceberg. it is impossible to solve it without a mentality change.

i remember last year ciko said something like "why dont you western feminists do something about that?" why someone else must do it for you? your women - your tragedy - you deal. all i can do is to shout about it. all i can do is to support charity activities.