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Report reveals horrors of violence against Turkish women
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| 120. |
26 Nov 2008 Wed 09:47 pm |
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Queent my dear, we have been over this here so many times. It seems to come up every two months at least. The same acusations are made by the same people over and over. I guess we just have to keep repeating it.
I think the dispute comes over the translation of the word daraba.
A Famous Multi-Meaning Word
The problem comes from the word "Idribuhunne" which we used to translate as "beat them". The root of this word is "DaRaBa". If you look at any Arabic dictionary you will find a long list of meanings ascribed to this word. That list is one of the longest list in whole Arabic dictionary. It can be said that "DaRaBa" is the number-one multi-meaning word in Arabic. It has so many different meanings, we can find numerous different meanings ascribed to it in the Quran.
To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273
To strike: 2:60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4
To beat: 8:50; 47:27
To set up: 43:58; 57:13
To give (examples): 14:24,45; 16:75,76,112; 18:32,45; 24:35; 30:28,58; 36:78; 39:27,29; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10,11
To take away, to ignore: 43:5
To condemn: 2:61
To seal, to draw over: 18:11
To cover: 24:31
To explain: 13:17
Mohammed sawas was the living Koran. How he treated his wives set the example. It is unfortunate not enough follow his sunnat in that respect.
thanks dear Alameda 
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| 121. |
26 Nov 2008 Wed 09:47 pm |
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I guess we just have to keep repeating it.
I think that counts for all things that are close to people  Because ofcourse for religious people religion is very important, but for non-believers, I can personally say it is equally important, only from the other side.
And I read about the word daraba yes, Ive indeed read that it can also mean ´to send away´. But I find it rather confusing still.
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| 122. |
26 Nov 2008 Wed 09:49 pm |
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I think anyone who is a devout Muslim (or has common sense  ) knows that domestic violence is haram in Islam, both according to the sunnah and all other reliable material. They are allowed to use the strength of a siwak and there are very specific rules for it. A Muslim woman has every right to divorce her husband if he has problems with violence and refuse to resolve them.
It´s an insult to women who suffer in this type of relationship to try to justify it in any way. There is simply no excuse for wife beating and it´s sick that some cultures put the blame on the woman 
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| 123. |
26 Nov 2008 Wed 09:51 pm |
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I didn´t say this: "you misunderstood, allah didnt say ´torture them till they die´, he said ´please hurt them carefully, so that you can emotionally kill them" deli, I said direct words no need to turn them into other words
It is unclear for whom doesn´t know Arabic, for me I didn´t misunderstood the verse or any other verse from Quran, it is written in my native language.
the so much misunderstanding between the believers is just that some believers like to take what suit them and let what does not, you should know this too.
Maybe I was wrong to ´twist´ your words, but the way you defended that surah really looked like that Anyway my apologies for twisting your words. I didnt mean to put them in your mouth, I meant to say that that is what I understand from it.
I don´t think having Arabic as your native language is enough to perfectly understand though. There is enough confusion even within the language itself, and there are also different lawschools in Islam that prescribe different rules as an explanation to the book. It doesnt make it more clear.
Yes you are right, people take from it what suits them sadly. But what if Allah really meant ´beat your wife´? Then you are the one who is taking what suits you.. (ofcourse you made the right choice by not beating ) and then you did misunderstand. But well, I guess this is part of having faith in the first place.. to believe what you believe is the right thing to believe.
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| 124. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 06:03 am |
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I deleted some posts because of personal argument and attacks (Forum rule #9). Let´s discuss the topic, not individuals.
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| 125. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 09:05 am |
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I deleted some posts because of personal argument and attacks (Forum rule #9). Let´s discuss the topic, not individuals.
I´m amazed it took so long for an admin to step in. And people were accusing me of being snarky. 
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| 126. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 11:13 am |
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VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN: JORDAN, 20% APPROVE TO BE BEATEN
(ANSAmed) - AMMAN, NOVEMBER 25 - Around 20 percent of Jordanian women approve being beaten by husbands to discipline them, according to a survey conducted by the department of statistics that was published today. The study included nearly 15,000 families and 11,000 women who got married, said the report. Most of the respondents aged between 15 to 49 years old. Luck Steve, representative of UN Agencies which helped conduct the study, said measures must be taken to fight violence against women following surprising results of the survey. "The result of the survey shows we have work to do regarding state of women in the society and how they are being treated," said Steve. The study was conducted during 2007 and made public during a public ceremony held at the department of statistics. Activists have been campaigning to improve conditions of women in this tribal community, but they are faced with resistance from traditional politicians. Queen Rania has been pushing for more rights to women since she was crowned nine years ago, with her efforts resulting in allowing married women to divorce their husbands, a measure that has been an exclusive right for men since decades. Every year between 15 to 20 women are killed in the name of honour, with killers receiving sentences for just a few months behind bars. (ANSAmed).
 fantastic mentality! |
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| 127. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 11:15 am |
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I´m amazed it took so long for an admin to step in. And people were accusing me of being snarky.
oooh, poor you, another victim,  why didnt admin delete GG´s posts? they protected canli, but they forgot about you?  thats unfair now, isnt it? 
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| 128. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 12:07 pm |
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Well done Admin for deletion. Some members on this thread ( and you know who you are) seem to be very intelligent people but insist on squabbling like children.
The world will never be at peace as long as some people behave like that. Why can´t people just agree to differ and be civil to each other. Lets get back to a heart rending debate.
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| 129. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 03:13 pm |
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VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN: JORDAN, 20% APPROVE TO BE BEATEN
(ANSAmed) - AMMAN, NOVEMBER 25 - Around 20 percent of Jordanian women approve being beaten by husbands to discipline them, according to a survey conducted by the department of statistics that was published today.
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fantastic mentality!
Seems shocking, doesn´t it? Why would someone approve of being beaten? Well, we need to turn to psychology a bit before we judge those women. It is not uncommon for a victim of any violence to identify with the perpetrator. When you are in an abusive relationship your self-esteem begins to deteriorate rapidly. If you´re told or shown by the abuser´s actions (somebody you perceive to have authority over you) that you´re worthless over and over again, you soon start to believe it. For some women, the erosion of self-esteem is so great that they actually begin to believe they deserve the abuse and that they brought it on themselves. If there´s nobody to tell them otherwise they will live by that belief.
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| 130. |
27 Nov 2008 Thu 05:02 pm |
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Seems shocking, doesn´t it? Why would someone approve of being beaten? Well, we need to turn to psychology a bit before we judge those women. It is not uncommon for a victim of any violence to identify with the perpetrator. When you are in an abusive relationship your self-esteem begins to deteriorate rapidly. If you´re told or shown by the abuser´s actions (somebody you perceive to have authority over you) that you´re worthless over and over again, you soon start to believe it. For some women, the erosion of self-esteem is so great that they actually begin to believe they deserve the abuse and that they brought it on themselves. If there´s nobody to tell them otherwise they will live by that belief.
It is an unfortunate fact that the oppressed often learn to believe the opressor. We have seen it over and over again.
How did aparthed continue? How did slavery and Jim Crow continue for so long? I think another term for this type of Stockholm syndrome.
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