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110.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 02:01 am

 

Quoting stumpy

Si++ why do you write "so called" Armenian genocide?  Is it that difficult to beleive?  Should we also be saying "so called" Jewish genocide of the nazi rule?  How many other "so called" genocide have occured around the world?

No where in the source document you posted does it say "so called"  Is it because the Armenians were catholics that you say "so called" genocide?

As long as there have been humans on this planet there has been genocides.  As soon as one denomination is singled out for elimination by another denomination it is a genocide.

 

 

 "So called" or not. It is not an easy problem to solve. It makes more angry both sides day by day. And it sows the hostility seeds. Sometimes it is better not to touch the wound. You think only one side is victim. It was a war and many people died from both sides.Only time can heal this wound not a surgeon.

111.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 04:27 am

Quote:gokuyum

It is not an easy problem to solve.
It is not a problem to solve, it is a situation that one must come to terms with.  Every civilisation in history has commited genocide in one forme or another and those who ignore history are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past

112.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 04:43 am

Quote:gokuyum

You think only one side is victim.
Did I say that one side was a victim?  I know all too well that their are victims on both sides.

113.       alameda
3499 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 07:11 am

Stumpy, there are a lot of legal ramnifications assosciated with the term genocide. The term was coined after WWII, and the crime was defined after WWII.

Until we make war itself a crime, we have to be very careful with the term "Genocide".

Quoting stumpy

It is not a problem to solve, it is a situation that one must come to terms with.  Every civilisation in history has commited genocide in one forme or another and those who ignore history are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past

 

 

114.       si++
3785 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 10:49 am

 

Quoting stumpy

Si++ why do you write "so called" Armenian genocide? You don´t expect me to call it as Armenians do, right? Is it that difficult to beleive?  Believe what? Should we also be saying "so called" Jewish genocide of the nazi rule?  An international trial took place and the Germans were found guilty. There is no trial taken place in this case. Turkie is ready for it. Armenians can go ahead and start a trial. The "Genocide" term were well defined by UN in 1948. But so far they didn´t go that way. Maybe they cannot prove it, hah? How many other "so called" genocide have occured around the world?

No where in the source document you posted does it say "so called"  Is it because the Armenians were catholics that you say "so called" genocide?

As long as there have been humans on this planet there has been genocides.  As soon as one denomination is singled out for elimination by another denomination it is a genocide.

 

 

 

115.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 11:36 am

 

Quoting stumpy

It is not a problem to solve, it is a situation that one must come to terms with.  Every civilisation in history has commited genocide in one forme or another and those who ignore history are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past

 

 It is a problem. You can´t expect all of a sudden all Turks to accept such a thing. Most of the Turks think deportation was a self defence because many Armenian gangs were killing innocent Turks with the support of enemies. Because of deportation lots of innocent Armenians also died in the desert. It became such a tragedy nobody wanted. It is unfair only one side to take responsibility for what happened. The best option according to me to look forward and have good relations with Armenia.



Edited (1/30/2011) by gokuyum
Edited (1/30/2011) by gokuyum

116.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 05:14 pm

Quote:gokuyum

The best option according to me to look forward and have good relations with Armenia.

That is exactly what I am saying.  Do you think I do not know what you are talking about.  I know what deportation is and what happens.  Families are ripped appart, people die, lives are destroyed.

During the American revolution against the Brittish my French ancestors were hearded onto sailling ships and deported from thier lands.  Men were killed, families ripped appart and more than half of the population killed because they did not want to pledge allegance to the crown of England and because the were Catholics and not Protestants.  That was in 1755.

My native Canadian ancestors, were hearded onto what were called Indian reserves where they dies of hunger and deseases.  This in the mid 1800 early 1900.

That is the diffrence, my people had hundred of years to reconcille with what was done.  And now we look to the future so that we can move forward.  Do you think that the queen appologised for what her ancestors did to mine? And we are not waiting for her appology, my people are moving on and growing stronger with every generation that passes.

This will not happen overnight, only time will heal those type of wounds.

And on an ironic note, one of my French ancestors married a Brittish man so if my French ancestors were still angered by what had happen a hundred years before they would have killed the man instead of accepting him and allowing him to marry into the family.

What was done was done and they moved on.  But again this was acheived over time.

 

117.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 05:34 pm

Quote:si++

Si++ why do you write "so called" Armenian genocide? You don´t expect me to call it as Armenians do, right? Is it that difficult to beleive?  Believe what? Should we also be saying "so called" Jewish genocide of the nazi rule?  An international trial took place and the Germans were found guilty. There is no trial taken place in this case. Turkie is ready for it. Armenians can go ahead and start a trial. The "Genocide" term were well defined by UN in 1948. But so far they didn´t go that way. Maybe they cannot prove it, hah?

si++ If certains subjects anger you and you do not beleive it happened why do you post them?  You know too well people will comment on it and then you get upset or angry. 

here is a link for the definition of genoside:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

and here is a link about genocide throughout history, it is not a phenomenon that started during WW1 and 2:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

 

118.       si++
3785 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 06:20 pm

 

Quoting stumpy

si++ If certains subjects anger you and you do not beleive it happened why do you post them?  You know too well people will comment on it and then you get upset or angry. I´m not angry or upset.

here is a link for the definition of genoside:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide Yeah. I already told you about it. And I tell you something. They were defined so as to find Turks guilty of doing Genocide. So why do you think Armenians didn´t start an international trial as Jews did. Apperantly there is not sufficient evidence, right? Otherwise why haven´t they  done it so far? Would you tell me?

and here is a link about genocide throughout history, it is not a phenomenon that started during WW1 and 2:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history  So do you think it´s evidence? Some say they think it was a genocide, some do not. It´s a controversial issue.

 

 

 

119.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 06:33 pm

Quote:si++

Some say they think it was a genocide, some do not. It´s a controversial issue.
Just like what happened to my people and we did not instigate any war crime trials, we moved on.  The diffrence is that for my people it occured in 1755 and for the Turks and Armenians it ocured in 1915.  The wounds are fresher.  And notice I did not take one side over another.  Denying that something happened does not make it go away. 

It is like the Holocost, some say it happened some say it did not.

120.       si++
3785 posts
 30 Jan 2011 Sun 07:02 pm

 

Quoting stumpy

Quote:si++

Some say they think it was a genocide, some do not. It´s a controversial issue.
Just like what happened to my people and we did not instigate any war crime trials, we moved on.  The diffrence is that for my people it occured in 1755 and for the Turks and Armenians it ocured in 1915.  The wounds are fresher.  And notice I did not take one side over another. I think you are already on their sides. I don´t expect you to belive anything Turks would say Denying that something happened does not make it go away. So what exactly did happen? How do you it happened as the way Armenians say it did?

 

It is like the Holocost, some say it happened some say it did not.

 

• Are you aware of any Turkish sufferings? Both sides suffered losses during the intercommunal warfare, which were worsened by the contagious diseases prevalent at the time and the scarcity of food and medicine.


• Do you know about the role of Armenian church in cultivating and financing terrorism?


• Do you know the roles of imperialist powers of the time to ethnically cleans the Turks, using Armenian nationalists?


• Do you know of Armenian rebellions?


• Are you aware of Armenian atrocities committed under Russian uniforms? They had collaborated with the invading Russian troops and perpetrated acts of violence against the Turkish villages in Southeastern Turkey during the World War I.


• Are you aware of Armenian atrocities committed under French uniforms?


• Did you know that the courts took place (Malta & Istanbul) and the Ottoman officials were found not guilty? English courts worked hard to find a guilty but no one was found

 

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