Turkey |
|
|
|
Our racist oath
|
90. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:58 pm |
What else do you know about fetishists, Agop ?
do you need to repeat yourself with the same racism again and again as if to say I dont have any logical thing to say any more ?
|
|
91. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 02:05 pm |
Well, I disagree with you. In the case of a Turkish citizen it´s not in reference to a race, it´s in reference to nationality.
So let me get this straight, you are against nation & flags, you can´t say what other term you would like to call citizens of Turkey, you are even against having a flag, so it seems in your post # 88 in this thread. "...I would support banning to use any flag..... "
I´m afraid you are not going to find any place that doesn´t have citizen requirments. Here is a guide to citizenships in a variety of different nations. I might suggest you go over what a nation is and what a nationality is.
Like it or not, you will be rather lonely and quite vulnerable as a stateless person.
Alameda, I wonder where you were when we were discussing about ´Turk´ is being the name of a race and apart from a few sentence, it has been used for the race. Obviously, it has been bothering many people. Because they are not Turkish!! Would you be happy to see your children forced to scream their heads of every morning if you lived in Turkey as an American citizen?
And it really naive to think the entire thing was not racist.
Can you defend the racist italian or german oaths from 1930s?
No..
You can not.
It is the same thing.
It was racist and it is gone for good.
|
|
92. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 02:22 pm |
Well, I disagree with you. In the case of a Turkish citizen it´s not in reference to a race, it´s in reference to nationality.
So let me get this straight, you are against nation & flags, you can´t say what other term you would like to call citizens of Turkey, you are even against having a flag, so it seems in your post # 88 in this thread. "...I would support banning to use any flag..... "
I´m afraid you are not going to find any place that doesn´t have citizen requirments. Here is a guide to citizenships in a variety of different nations. I might suggest you go over what a nation is and what a nationality is.
Like it or not, you will be rather lonely and quite vulnerable as a stateless person.
Well let me tell you one thing Alameda:
As a turkish citizen, I am telling you "the word Turk refers to a race/ethinicity". And as I said many times, ´apart from a few sentences, it was used to describe a race/ethnicity´.
I am a citizen of Turkey and I have always been proud of it.
What I am not or you have to get a grip of the fact that you can be a proud citizen of your country without a flag fetishism or without being a racist or even without being a nationalist!!
Racism/nationalism is not a requirement of citizenship!!
ps.. Look. This nationalism does not stay there as innocent as you try to show. Check what sort of ideology is behind of killing 17.000 unlawfully during the fight with kurds in 1990s, check which ideology was behind the pogrom of 1956 in Istanbul, check the idology supported all those coups in Turkey, check the ideological back ground of 1915 Armenian deportation.. Do I need to give more examples? why do you need we are still struggling to live together? why do you think Turkey is one of a few countries almost does not have any ethnic minorities?
Edited (11/22/2013) by thehandsom
|
|
93. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 02:28 pm |
MORE BORING PARROT TALK BY AGOP THE PUREST TURK
Well let me tell you one thing Alameda:
As a turkish citizen, I am telling you "the word Turk refers to a race/ethinicity". And as I said many times, ´apart from a few sentences, it was used to describe a race/ethnicity´.
I am a citizen of Turkey and I have always been proud of it.
What I am not or you have to get a grip of the fact that you can be a proud citizen of your country without a flag fetishism or without being a racist or even without being a nationalist!!
Racism/nationalism is not a requirement of citizenship!!
ps.. Look. This nationalism does not stay there as innocent as you try to show. Check what sort of ideology is behind of killing 17.000 unlawfully during the fight with kurds in 1990s, check which ideology was behind the pogrom of 1956 in Istanbul, check the idology supported all those coups in Turkey, check the ideological back ground of 1915 Armenian deportation.. Do I need to give more examples? why do you need we are still struggling to live together? why do you think Turkey is one of a few countries almost does not have any ethnic minorities?
|
|
95. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 09:09 pm |
A citizen of China is called Chinese, a citizen of Canada is called Canadian....obvoously, a citizen of Turkey would be called a Turk.....need I go on? I asked what term you prefer? Of course renaming the country would be required, is that do you want?
People keep having problems because some people agitate problems. I´ve noticed in areas, with strategic territory or valuable resources, people seem to be turned against one another. It isns´t that difficult as at his most base nature, humans are tribal, like various animals, sheep, goats, oxen, or flocks of birds.
I am not Turkish, thus don´t have a pony in this race, I am just a history buff who has found the Levant interesting historic area. That is why when you go on about racism, see the absurdity of that comment. Anatolia & Thrace are some of the oldest most traveled crossroads of the world. Humans have been blending there for many thousands of years.
To try to separate a group, like claiming this area is the homeland of XXX or ZZZ is inaccurate. Study a little archology.
“Naturally the common people don´t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering
As for the rest of your rant, I have studied those issues. You mention the Armenians....
I notice you never mention the Hunchacks, who were established in 1887....."and what was their strategy?
Taken from the Hunchak.org website. ...I´m not linking to it due to malware on the site.
"III. The Hunchakian program advocated revolution as the only means of reaching the immediate objective. The arena of revolutionary activity was designed as Turkish Armenia. The Party believed that the existing social organisation in Turkish Armenia could be changed by violence against the Turkish government and described the following methods. Propaganda, Agitation, Terror, Organisation, and Peasant and Worker Activities.
Propaganda was to be directed to the people to educate them toward two goals: The basic reasons and the proper time for revolution against the government; The social order that was to be established after the successful revolution.
Agitation and Terror were needed to "elevate the spirit of the people". Demonstrations against the government, refusal to pay taxes, demands for reforms, and hatred of the aristocracy were part of the party´s agitation campaign. Terror was to be used as a method of protecting the people and winning their confidence in the Hunchak program."
The fact of the matter is there are always a variety of different ethnic groups in an area, all humans are related, we are cousins.
Fixed borders are a recent phenomenon, formerly people were more mobile and crossed, stayed here a while then went there. We are similar to the birds and other creatures.
Well let me tell you one thing Alameda:
As a turkish citizen, I am telling you "the word Turk refers to a race/ethinicity". And as I said many times, ´apart from a few sentences, it was used to describe a race/ethnicity´.
I am a citizen of Turkey and I have always been proud of it.
What I am not or you have to get a grip of the fact that you can be a proud citizen of your country without a flag fetishism or without being a racist or even without being a nationalist!!
Racism/nationalism is not a requirement of citizenship!!
ps.. Look. This nationalism does not stay there as innocent as you try to show. Check what sort of ideology is behind of killing 17.000 unlawfully during the fight with kurds in 1990s, check which ideology was behind the pogrom of 1956 in Istanbul, check the idology supported all those coups in Turkey, check the ideological back ground of 1915 Armenian deportation.. Do I need to give more examples? why do you need we are still struggling to live together? why do you think Turkey is one of a few countries almost does not have any ethnic minorities?
|
|
96. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:11 pm |
Do you seriously think all these integration policies meant ´FORCING PEOPLE TO BE DUTCH/GERMAN etc´?
Search more!!
|
|
97. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:24 pm |
A citizen of China is called Chinese, a citizen of Canada is called Canadian....obvoously, a citizen of Turkey would be called a Turk.....need I go on? I asked what term you prefer? Of course renaming the country would be required, is that do you want?
People keep having problems because some people agitate problems. I´ve noticed in areas, with strategic territory or valuable resources, people seem to be turned against one another. It isns´t that difficult as at his most base nature, humans are tribal, like various animals, sheep, goats, oxen, or flocks of birds.
I am not Turkish, thus don´t have a pony in this race, I am just a history buff who has found the Levant interesting historic area. That is why when you go on about racism, see the absurdity of that comment. Anatolia & Thrace are some of the oldest most traveled crossroads of the world. Humans have been blending there for many thousands of years.
To try to separate a group, like claiming this area is the homeland of XXX or ZZZ is inaccurate. Study a little archology.
“Naturally the common people don´t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering
As for the rest of your rant, I have studied those issues. You mention the Armenians....
I notice you never mention the Hunchacks, who were established in 1887....."and what was their strategy?
Taken from the Hunchak.org website. ...I´m not linking to it due to malware on the site.
"III. The Hunchakian program advocated revolution as the only means of reaching the immediate objective. The arena of revolutionary activity was designed as Turkish Armenia. The Party believed that the existing social organisation in Turkish Armenia could be changed by violence against the Turkish government and described the following methods. Propaganda, Agitation, Terror, Organisation, and Peasant and Worker Activities.
Propaganda was to be directed to the people to educate them toward two goals: The basic reasons and the proper time for revolution against the government; The social order that was to be established after the successful revolution.
Agitation and Terror were needed to "elevate the spirit of the people". Demonstrations against the government, refusal to pay taxes, demands for reforms, and hatred of the aristocracy were part of the party´s agitation campaign. Terror was to be used as a method of protecting the people and winning their confidence in the Hunchak program."
The fact of the matter is there are always a variety of different ethnic groups in an area, all humans are related, we are cousins.
Fixed borders are a recent phenomenon, formerly people were more mobile and crossed, stayed here a while then went there. We are similar to the birds and other creatures.
We wont need to change the name of the country. We should just learn how to live together and that will be all..
Apart from anything else, say a Turk like me accepted this racist oath: Closed my eyes, closed my ears etc. But what about the others. Specially the Kurds!! They dont want it naturally.. And that is their basic human rights. Why would a Kurdish kid should be forced to say that every morning? Just to please a few nationalists? Why are we NOT able to accept a Kurd as a Kurd?
That is where nationalism is coming into equation. The nationalism, which you are talking as if everybody has to have it, as you see here is making people to see others enemy. They think anybody who does not want to say this oath is their enemy. This ideology could divide Turkey.
|
|
98. |
22 Nov 2013 Fri 11:40 pm |
Well Mr. H....most all countries require some sort of oath, pledge or such of allegiance. It is up to the citizens of Turkey to decide what they want it to be. I wish you all well. It is as if we are all in a canoe and if one rocks it the water comes in on all of us....where ever we are.
We have to constantly watch out for anything that instills hatred, & causes us to seek vengance. I know the Bulgarians don´t consider themselves any kind of a Turk, however the name of their country is derivative of a turkic people. Mexico takes it´s name from the Mixtec people, although there are many Zapotec, Mayan, Tzeltal, Nahua and Mestizo or various European derivitives other people. I haven´t seen them uprising to protest being called Mexican.
BTW In the Italy the term "Turk" was applied to anyone who was Muslim, and had nothing to do with any ethnicity. That term has died out some what, but I´ve heard many of the WWII generation still use it. It´s kind of like Moor could be used for black or Muslim in Spain. The patron saint of Spain is St. James Matamoros. There is a town in called Matamoros which means kill the Moors, meaning Muslims.
We wont need to change the name of the country. We should just learn how to live together and that will be all..
Apart from anything else, say a Turk like me accepted this racist oath: Closed my eyes, closed my ears etc. But what about the others. Specially the Kurds!! They dont want it naturally.. And that is their basic human rights. Why would a Kurdish kid should be forced to say that every morning? Just to please a few nationalists? Why are we NOT able to accept a Kurd as a Kurd?
That is where nationalism is coming into equation. The nationalism, which you are talking as if everybody has to have it, as you see here is making people to see others enemy. They think anybody who does not want to say this oath is their enemy. This ideology could divide Turkey.
Edited (11/22/2013) by alameda
[fix photo]
Edited (11/23/2013) by alameda
[add]
|
|
99. |
24 Nov 2013 Sun 01:07 am |
We had a member named Daydreamer, there must be a reason why I remembered her name.
The true nature of nations is not like the way you perceive them. Eve the most advanced nations in the world are pretty selfish when it comes to their own interests and they would not hesitate to resort to power if they want to make a point. They use mighty weapons and brutal methods to make sure who the boss is. They use your holy book as toilet paper. They know how to intimidate you or to fill your mind with utopic democracy games whereas the name of their game is xenophobia. Don´t tell me what is being staged today has something to do with the Kurds and their rights or with the terrorist acts that have claimed the lives of thousands of peopöe
|
|
100. |
24 Nov 2013 Sun 10:37 pm |
Do you seriously think all these integration policies meant ´FORCING PEOPLE TO BE DUTCH/GERMAN etc´?
Search more!!
sure. i lived in those places. dont tell me to search more. its you who has to research, being the ignorant one here.
|
|
|