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Our racist oath
(105 Messages in 11 pages - View all)
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80.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Nov 2013 Thu 01:31 pm

 

Quoting 0.46%

 

 

Alameda, I wonder where you were when we were discussing about ´Turk´ is being the name of a race and apart from a few sentence, it has been used for the race. Obviously, it has been bothering many people.  Because they are not Turkish!!

 

 

This is from the column of Fatih Altaylı:

"Galatasaray´da okuduğum sırada din dersi zorunlu değildi.
Bazı arkadaşlarımız bu derse girmezdi.
Bazıları Ermeni´ydi, bazıları ise Yahudi.
Girmeyen Türk öğrenciler de vardı ama niye girmediklerini anlamazdık, çünkü o zamanlar ´Alevilik´ diye bir ayrışmanın olduğunun farkında değildik."
Bu satırlara itiraz geldi.
Sevgili Hayim Pinto şöyle dile getirmiş itirazını:
"Bu tanımlamalar doğru olmamış Müslüman olmayabiliriz ama biz de Türk´üz."
Pinto´nun bu satırlarını okuyunca gözlerim doldu.
Mutlu oldum.
Sevindim.
Türk olmayı, Atatürk´ün Cumhuriyet´e kazandırdığı Türklük tanımını bundan daha iyi hangi sözcükler ifade edebilirdi.
Üstelik de Hayim Pinto bu sözleri bundan 15 yıl önce söylese önemli değildi.
Bugün daha önemli.
Türk olmak "demode" olmuşken, hatta neredeyse "ayıp" olmuşken bunu söylemek gerçekten değer taşıyor.

 

Translation:

When I was in Galatasaray school, the class about the religion was not compulsary. Some of us wouldn´t take it because they were Armenians or Jewish. There were some Turks who didn´t take it as well and we didn´t understand then why they wouldn´t. We were not aware that there was a separation called alevism.

I received an objection from one of my readers about it. Hayim Pinto (my note: the name suggests that he is a Jewish) writes:

"OK we may not be a muslim but we are also Türk"

burakk liked this message
81.       alameda
3499 posts
 21 Nov 2013 Thu 08:56 pm

My comment was quite specific, and has nothing to do with the other countries you mentioned, in an attempt to divert the conversation. I asked specifically it it was Turk you objected to, you did not answer. If so, please give us a link to the post. 

Turk is not a race, it´s the name of a nationality, and the name of an ethnic group....similar naming conventions have been used in other countries..as I pointed out to you in an earlier post. I asked you what you would prefer, no answer. To me it seems you are hung up on the name Turk. Would you prefer Lasland, Kurdistan, Zazalaz? Trakitolia? What do you want, really, other than to sow discontent, that is?

Here it is again: 

Most countries have settled on a name for their country. Many of the names actually are derived from some tribe or another, but we don´t hear the people getting upset and calling the names racist. Here, take a look:

Endonyms and most exonyms for Poles and Poland derive from the name of the West Slavic tribe of the Polans 

The name "England" is derived from the Old English name Englaland, which means "land of the Angles". The Angles were one of the Germanic tribes that settled in Great Britain during the Early Middle Ages. 

The name "France" comes from the Latin Francia, which means "country of the Franks". There are various theories as to the origin of the name Franks: one is that it is derived from the Proto-Germanic word frankon which translates as javelin or lance as the throwing axe of the Franks was known as a francisca.[20] Another proposed etymology is that in an ancient Germanic language, Frank means free as opposed to slave.

Hungary, Atilla the Hun

In the 7th century, Bulgar tribes (likely of central Asian Turkic origin), migrated to the lower courses of the rivers Danube, Dniester and Dniepr under the leadership of Asparukh. After 670 he moved into the Balkan Peninsula with a horde of 50,000 Bulgars across the Danube and in 680 severed Scythia Minor from the Byzantine Empire. A peace treaty with Byzantium in 681 and the establishment of a permanent capital at Pliska south of the Danube marked the beginning of the First Bulgarian Empire. The Bulgars gradually mixed up with the local population, adopting a common language on the basis of Slavonic."

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Alameda, I wonder where you were when we were discussing about ´Turk´ is being the name of a race and apart from a few sentence, it has been used for the race. Obviously, it has been bothering many people.  Because they are not Turkish!! Would you be happy to see your children forced to scream their heads of every morning if you lived in Turkey as an American citizen?

And it really naive to think the entire thing  was not racist.

Can you defend the racist italian or german oaths from 1930s? 

No..

You can not.

It is the same thing.

It was racist and it is gone for good.

 

 

 

82.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 08:32 am

It is easy for some countries to mix terms like patriotism, racism, nationalism.. especially if they never had to share a border with Russia, or laid down accepted their patronage.

Australians did not learn racism from Turks during Gallipoli wars; what they learned were patriotism and nationalism. After the war, they realised that their own  independence was of prime importance and used patriotism and nationalism to get it.

That is why the two nations still respect each other sincerely, despite a fierce war in between, sparked by other well known non-racist (!) nations.

                                          {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}



Edited (11/22/2013) by AlphaF
Edited (11/22/2013) by AlphaF
Edited (11/22/2013) by AlphaF
Edited (11/22/2013) by AlphaF
Edited (11/22/2013) by AlphaF

83.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:33 am

 

Quoting alameda

My comment was quite specific, and has nothing to do with the other countries you mentioned, in an attempt to divert the conversation. I asked specifically it it was Turk you objected to, you did not answer. If so, please give us a link to the post. 

Turk is not a race, it´s the name of a nationality, and the name of an ethnic group....similar naming conventions have been used in other countries..as I pointed out to you in an earlier post. I asked you what you would prefer, no answer. To me it seems you are hung up on the name Turk. Would you prefer Lasland, Kurdistan, Zazalaz? Trakitolia? What do you want, really, other than to sow discontent, that is?

Here it is again: 

Most countries have settled on a name for their country. Many of the names actually are derived from some tribe or another, but we don´t hear the people getting upset and calling the names racist. Here, take a look:

Endonyms and most exonyms for Poles and Poland derive from the name of the West Slavic tribe of the Polans 

The name "England" is derived from the Old English name Englaland, which means "land of the Angles". The Angles were one of the Germanic tribes that settled in Great Britain during the Early Middle Ages. 

The name "France" comes from the Latin Francia, which means "country of the Franks". There are various theories as to the origin of the name Franks: one is that it is derived from the Proto-Germanic word frankon which translates as javelin or lance as the throwing axe of the Franks was known as a francisca.[20] Another proposed etymology is that in an ancient Germanic language, Frank means free as opposed to slave.

Hungary, Atilla the Hun

In the 7th century, Bulgar tribes (likely of central Asian Turkic origin), migrated to the lower courses of the rivers Danube, Dniester and Dniepr under the leadership of Asparukh. After 670 he moved into the Balkan Peninsula with a horde of 50,000 Bulgars across the Danube and in 680 severed Scythia Minor from the Byzantine Empire. A peace treaty with Byzantium in 681 and the establishment of a permanent capital at Pliska south of the Danube marked the beginning of the First Bulgarian Empire. The Bulgars gradually mixed up with the local population, adopting a common language on the basis of Slavonic."

 

 

 

Alameda for the last time:

-The word "Turk" is a name for an ethnicity.  As a word, except a few sentences, it has been used as a name for a  race/ethinicity. What is my ethnicity? I am a Turk? what does a person who comes from the East of Turkey, say about his ethnicity? He/she is a Kurd. Why would you force a Kurd, an Armenian, a Greek child to force to say ´he/she is a Turk?´ can you give a logical answer? NO.

-I dont prefer any other name. Why do you need any name as if  there is no life without screaming an oath .You do NOT need to be NATIONALISTIC. That is not compulsary. Being a good citizen will be enough.

-Nobody objects the existing of the races or ethnicities.

-BUT GLORIFYING A RACE IS RACISM.

-The past oath was a racist oath.

 

 

 



Edited (11/22/2013) by thehandsom

84.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 12:24 pm

Alameda,

Your discussion friend is very much like a parrot who keeps repeating the few lines he has memorized. The moment you force him out of his area of memorization he is lost and can only repeat himself once again.

Pls bear with him, or better do not waste your time with him at all.

85.       burakk
309 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 12:37 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Alameda for the last time:

-The word "Turk" is a name for an ethnicity.  As a word, except a few sentences, it has been used as a name for a  race/ethinicity. What is my ethnicity? I am a Turk? what does a person who comes from the East of Turkey, say about his ethnicity? He/she is a Kurd. Why would you force a Kurd, an Armenian, a Greek child to force to say ´he/she is a Turk?´ can you give a logical answer? NO.

-I dont prefer any other name. Why do you need any name as if  there is no life without screaming an oath .You do NOT need to be NATIONALISTIC. That is not compulsary. Being a good citizen will be enough.

-Nobody objects the existing of the races or ethnicities.

-BUT GLORIFYING A RACE IS RACISM.

-The past oath was a racist oath.

 

 

 

 

why not? they force people to become dutch/german/french/british in europe. or in russia. you can say you are kalmyk but if you say you want to throw away your russian id and become independent, then they invade you (their own land actually) and nobody says anything. because russia is big, strong, nuclear etc. as i said before, the thing that infuriates me most with the petty anti-racists is that their anti-racism can only touch the politically weak countries. 1.5 million iraqis killed? oh sure! its america! they have to be right! but fuck turks and their racist oath! those pigs who sing their own national anthem! bla ba

86.       burakk
309 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 12:45 pm

and another thing that infuriates me is this new-age trendy anti-"racism" in turkey. when did this trend start? when akp came into govt. then they fucked all nationalist things and you guys real face came out. so your idea of anti-"racism" required nothing but a govt change. before that you guys were all nice and tidy turkish citizens who faked tears in bir başkadır benim memleketim songs. and now someone came and said "ok im the prime minister now i ban all turkish flags" you belly dancers all went along with it. so what will happen when he says "ok im selling this country to america"? you will also go along with it. your whole philosophy and ideology is about syncronising it to the philosophy of the governing party or whomever is in charge. just like the ottoman citizens who sided with the british and french when the ottoman empire has been invaded by british and french.

 

turkey. land of mosaics. on one hand you see a mother who has lost his son a matyr to the firefight and says "i sacrifice him to the country. i have another son. i would sacrifice him as well. as long as the land is intact" and on the other hand you have people who say "turkish flag? man im not turkish. turkish land? please dont be racist". its like mystic.

87.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:00 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

why not? they force people to become dutch/german/french/british in europe. or in russia. you can say you are kalmyk but if you say you want to throw away your russian id and become independent, then they invade you (their own land actually) and nobody says anything. because russia is big, strong, nuclear etc. as i said before, the thing that infuriates me most with the petty anti-racists is that their anti-racism can only touch the politically weak countries. 1.5 million iraqis killed? oh sure! its america! they have to be right! but fuck turks and their racist oath! those pigs who sing their own national anthem! bla ba

 

You have to get a grip on what is hapenning in the world!!

Nobody is forced in civilised world to become dutch/german etc.. That is the halucination and imaginary world you have been forced to live and lies you have been brain washed to believe.

And please.. Stop commenting before searching about your subject!!

 

 

88.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:15 pm

 

Quoting burakk

and another thing that infuriates me is this new-age trendy anti-"racism" in turkey. when did this trend start? when akp came into govt. then they fucked all nationalist things and you guys real face came out. so your idea of anti-"racism" required nothing but a govt change. before that you guys were all nice and tidy turkish citizens who faked tears in bir başkadır benim memleketim songs. and now someone came and said "ok im the prime minister now i ban all turkish flags" you belly dancers all went along with it. so what will happen when he says "ok im selling this country to america"? you will also go along with it. your whole philosophy and ideology is about syncronising it to the philosophy of the governing party or whomever is in charge. just like the ottoman citizens who sided with the british and french when the ottoman empire has been invaded by british and french.

 

turkey. land of mosaics. on one hand you see a mother who has lost his son a matyr to the firefight and says "i sacrifice him to the country. i have another son. i would sacrifice him as well. as long as the land is intact" and on the other hand you have people who say "turkish flag? man im not turkish. turkish land? please dont be racist". its like mystic.

 

I am not going to defend the PM. I dont care what he does or he does NOT.

But I have never seen anybody banning the Turkish flags!! (or selling Turkey to USA. Get a grip with the facts!! No one is banning the flags or no one is seeling the country to anybody!! lol )

But I know many behave like flag fetishists!!

They make flags so big that they can be seen from the space!!

I even remember an incident where 10-11 yo kids dyed a flag by cutting their hands and use their blood.. 

For those parents, yes, I would support banning to use of any flag because they belittle my country´s image!  

 



Edited (11/22/2013) by thehandsom

89.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:51 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

But I know many behave like flag fetishists!!

 

 

 

What else do you know about fetishists, Agop ?

90.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:58 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

What else do you know about fetishists, Agop ?

 

do you need to repeat yourself with the same racism again and again as if to say I dont have any logical  thing to say any more ? lol

 

 

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