A 15 years old girl was raped and then killed by his family here is the news in Turkish




15 yaşında tecavüze uğradı, ağabeyi vurdu

DHA

Van’ın Başkale İlçesi’nde Naile Erdaş (15), bir hafta önce baş ağrısı şikáyetiyle ağabeyi ve yengesiyle birlikte hastaneye gitti.


Muayenede 9 aylık hamile olduğu ortaya çıkan Naile Erdaşâ€™ın evli olmadığını öğrenen hastane doktoru, ailenin tepki göstereceğini düşÃ¼nerek genç kızı hastane polisinin gözetiminde müşahede altına aldı. Hastanede 4 gün önce bir erkek bebek dünyaya getiren Erdaş, önceki gün taburcu edilerek evine gönderildi. Naile Erdaş, önceki akşam ağabeyi Bahri Erdaş ile dışarı çıktıktan sonra sokakta vurularak öldürüldü. Kayıplara karışan ağabey aranıyor.



AİLEDEN 3 KİŞİ TUTUKLANDI

Naile Erdaş'ın öldürülmesiyle ilgili gözaltına alınan baba Memet E, amca Sabri E, dayı Kemal E. ile anne S.E., polisteki sorgulamaları tamamlandıktan sonra adliyeye sevkedildi. Nöbetçi mahkemeye çıkarılan aileden baba Memet E, amca Sabri E. ve dayı Kemal E, ‘ölüme sebebiyet vermek’ suçundan tutuklanırken, anne S.E. serbest bırakıldı.
Öldürülen B.E'ye tecavüz ettiği iddia edilen komşusu A.G.'den alınan örnek, Elazığ Adli Tıp Kurumu'na gönderildiği.

CENAZESİNİ BELEDİYE TOPRAĞA VERDİ

Yapılan otopsinin ardından Diyarbakır Adli Tıp Kurumu'ndan dün gece getirilen Naile'nin cenazesine Başakale'deki yakınları sahip çıkmadı. Bunun üzerine belediye ekipleri, cenazeyi gece ilçe mezarlığına defnetti.

BEBEK ERZURUM'DAKİ Ã‡OCUK YUVASINA TESLİM EDİLDİ

Başkale Kaymakamlığı'nca Van'a götürülüp Sosyal Hizmetler İl Müdürlüğü Çocuk Yuvası görevlilerine teslim edilen Naile Erdaş'ın 5 günlük bebeği, buradan 0- 6 yaş arası çocuk bakımı yapılamadığı için Erzurum'a götürüldü. Bebek, Erzurum Sosyal Hizmetler İl Müdürlüğü 0- 6 Yaş Çocuk Yuvası görevlilerine teslim edildi.

sorry but i think you gave the wrong title to your message...it's a shame that these things happen in 2006 and this action is everything but honored...i can't think of any excuse for her family and i suppose turkish justice system will punish him...if actually it can punish such an awful crime..

Oh yes it shoudl be "honor killing" or honor killing(!), right?

Thıs ıs sımply AWFUL but ıt does happen ın 2006 and not just ın Turkey , ıt ıs even worse ın other countrıes , poor girl I felt so sorry for her and her family members are a piece of trash!! there is no other way to call these monsters!!!
Dilara.

Unfortunately in some parts of Turkey (mainly the South East region) 'Honour killings', or 'Töre Cinayet' sadly still occur. These type of murders have been given the term 'honour killings', because some families believe that if their daughter has had a relationship before marriage, that her 'honour' is soiled, and that the only way to clean the families name is to kill the daugter (or sister, etc).

Thats why the title of this thread is 'honour killing',not because he who posted it thinks that its honourable in anyway.

What kind of primitive act is this? And is still goes on? Really? Where in Turkey does this occur?

It happens mainly in South East and Eastern Turkey, although of course it can happen in other areas aswell. I found this article that says that in the past five years over 1,091 people have been killed in 'honour killings' in Turkey - but that doesnt include the cases the officials dont know about, and alot of the murders get passed off as suicide, so the figure may be much higher...


http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Trends&loid=8.0.333700428&par=0

I will never understand the deepness of such an 'honour' that could be stronger than your love of your child or sibling. I can't even discuss it...

honor never can be more valuable then a child love,and really not easy to understand reasons of this wildness.i thinkthats the response of closed society,and i hope negative things could be change in our loving people

Honer killing not only happen in Turkey, but in other countries also. In England some areas have large asian communities and so called honer killing have occurred here.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/4407728.stm.34k-

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nana, this is a terrible story. Parents are there to protect their children.

I read yesterday.. couldn't understand in turkish but by discussion understood what it is all about. I was very stressed by this.. couldn't continue to work for a while. I didn't think it is possible nowdays. I can't discuss it and even find words for expressing what I think.. does it happened in villages or in cities they follow this custom as well? Justice punish parents-killers or not?

Uneducated people, brain washed by ancient, out-dated traditions and religious beliefs commit these crimes. It's mind boggling to think stuff like this happens in the 21st century. Just terrible, when will we as human race finally evolve and leave behind STUPID beliefs like these? Tradition and religion only make people go backwards, not forward!!

Erem,

Well, I would argue the point, but I don't want to start anything unnecessary. So we'll leave it at that hehe.

Erem,

As I mentioned the book, Saudi Princess, yes it is about killing but it also indicates what little influence women have on the decision to subject their daughter to an honor killing. It is a compeling read and not all about death.

Guys, don't turn this into a religious war thread, other wise the admins will close it. '

Erem,

Alot of things influence murder these days but I do not believe that Religion is one of them!

For example: This was on the news quite a long time ago - A film called Chuckie was wathced by two ten year old boys which then influenced them to snatch a 2 year old boy and beat him to death.
These Deaths are influenced by our own media and films and through many other things in life, and it is too late for people to realise it until something terrible has happened.

On the other hand religion has helped people who were in the wrong to be set straight again.
For example: A boy of 16 was a a serious drug addict and found himself into trouble with the police many of times. He even came close to death and at which point a priest was visiting the ward on the hospital and came into the boys life. The boy from then on did not touch a single drug and became a loyal Christian. He even talked to those who were recovering from such addictions like himself to share how he recovered with 'Gods' help.

i think a lot of it has to do with tradition and the way people have done things in the past.

although most western people view honour killings as barbaric and out-dated, most of the people that do go through with this practice these days are deep-set in their traditions and the old way of life.

what may have been seen as the way of life many centuries ago is still practiced in the present. it doesn't mean it is right or wrong, but that is how these people view it.

you will find that a few of the african and middle eastern countries still practice honour killings.

It's not the religion thats the problem but it's the people and traditions.

We have a serious problem with sex being a taboo in Turkia. If a girl would have sex without marriage and if she is living with her family then many Turkish families would have a huge problem when finding out about this.

For some very traditional families protecting a girls virginity before marriage is a matter of life and dead. You might think that a girl might have sex without losing virginity. This is very true and if it would happen then it wouldn't be a problem as big since it is easy to cover up as long as this information isn't public and on everybodies mouth.

The intellectual and aesthetics level among some locals is not very high unfortunately. They are considering girls as a gift to buy for their sons. Some time ago it was a common practice to pay money for this gift to the selling party. Usually the girl wouldn't even see the boy or the old man she is going marry. In some instances families have sold their girls to married and old men even if the girl was in love with a local boy. This is a common theme and we have many movies where these two run away.

Of course you can imagine what would happen among such mentalities if the gift turned out to be rotten. The buying party would get crazy. In some instance they would return it. I know all this sounds unbelievable but it is true. Again returning the boys gift is a theme of a movie and is well know. Of course this would be the biggest shame for the selling party.

I lived a few years in East Turkia in these small mountain villages far from any town. I know these people. You need to understand their mentality. Once I asked a farmer the number children he has and he said eight. I asked how many of them were girls or boys and he said these were only the boys. I asked about the girls and he said girls don't count but said that he had three girls.

Among some locals a girl is less valuable than a cow. They would not think twice if they have to kill to clear their name. In prison these killers are very welcome and highly respected.

Returning to the previous example of buying a gift and getting it delivered unrotten, after the trade now it becomes the buying parties business to protect the black box. What this means is that the girl might be beaten by her husband but should never run away or divorce since they need to have control over boxes.

Some time ago, there was a woman who got beaten continuously and she run away and wanted to divorce. But they didn't let her. Her husband found her in another city, she was in İstanbul and shoot her in the middle of the street. The woman recovered and told her story to newspapers etc.

I remember a man stabbing her wife in the middle of the street and there was a police officer and a lots of people and everybody was just watching. The man was stabbing her, and shout for a while and stabbing her again. The police, altough armed (all police is armed here) was just trying to persuade the man to stop. This continued for a few minutes and at the end there was only blood on the street and a dead woman. Some people thought she deserved.

In other ethnical groups in East Turkia these mentalities are common. Interestingly many foreign women find themselves these type men.

As we can see...it doesn't matter what the religion, it is people's attitudes, thinking, and traditions...

Whether it be Islam, Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, etc...

Pardon me !
Maybe i'm a bit ignorant here,but is it for girls to have sex before marriage is one of the measures of civilized countries ?!

And CANLI, why do you only query the acceptence of sex before marriage for WOMEN? As I said, EQUALITY is the measure of civilised countries..

Sex before marriage is irrelevant here. The point is that women are being abused, beaten or killed for doing something that is acceptable for men to do.

I am curious by your post though - please could you enlighten me as to the laws with which Allah permits people to kill one another?

No, English law (or European law) does not allow ANYONE to kill another, law or not. Thank you for enlightening me CANLI, I didn't know this.

Tell me, is it written anywhere that Allah allows the law to do this?

Ohhh aenigma x,has it been cancelled then in courts ?
A killer doesn't send to death anymore ?
İ know it it still in so many countries,France and USA as well,sometimes using the electric chair too in USA.

The last execution in the UK was in 1964. This followed many years of debate following cases where people had been found to be innocent after their sentences had been carried out.

I didn't realise Turkey had capital punishment.

Ofcourse,it's written in holy books,not only in Qur'an.
İf a man kill another,then the ruler should send him to trial and if he is sure that he is the killer then he send him to death too.
aenigma ,i don't think that i am saying a new thing here,i'm sure you are familiar with is,for it was applying for many centuries there,even if its not applying by the law now,but it was there to a very near date too!

Thank CANLI! You learn something new everyday...

İ don't know if Turkey has capital punishment or not.

And thank you aenigma x as well,you are so right,one learn new things everyday.

Overall what we are basically trying to say is that all over the world peoples rights are being abused left, right and center and it doesn't seem like it has any hope of stopping.

Peoples views on life are all different from one another so there will always be conflict in the world because the human race fail to accept people for who they really are just because they are not the same....whether it be race, religion, sex etc.
e.g. For a women to sleep around with many different men she is seen as a 'slut' or any other name you wish to use, but for a man....well....he gets a pat on the back and a cheer from his friends.
We ask ourselves why is it ok for some people to do things and not others....answer is: because thats how the world is, wheter we like it or not.
Some people are to stubborn to accept people who are different because they fear that they will be 'changed' from what they believe in and who they are...but if what they believe in was so strong they shouldn't have to worry about it in the first place....should they?

People think it's a shock to hear about killings and rapes that are going on in the world....ok I agree it is very disturbing and upsetting...but why shock? I mean Honour killings isn't the worst thing in the world and it isn't exactly rare(though it is very bad indeed)...
I was reading this book (a true story) and it was about people who worship the devil and have children for the purpose of sacrifice and one litle girl (age 6) saw unimaginable things that some of us wouldn't even have nightmares about in our life time.
Cannibalism is even still considered normal in some societies...though extremley rare nowadays.
So what do we call normal?.....for me their isn't a normal...peoples lives are different because of their upbringing...if someone were bought up in society where worshipping the devil was normal, then they would see nothing wrong with it and they would call this normal, where as someone born a Christian would be bought up to respect Jesus etc and see this as normal.

Well said Kai. People do tend to be products of their enviornments, however what about the exceptions. The family that generation after generation has no education on welfare etc.. Then a sibling goes to college, gets a great job, is this person the abnormal?. I guess we can all sit back and think well this is how they were raised. I agree to this at a certain point, but we also have been given the power to learn, educate and make decisions. I tend to think this is just an excuse for people not to evolve. I happen to think there is normalcy, without it my life would be chaotic. Again, it all has to do with how you perceive and define "normal".

No no no! I just cannot agree with you Kai. You think we should all sit back and accept what is wrong because of different cultures and traditions? If we all sat back and did nothing, we would not be enjoying the freedom that we currently have. It is easy for you to say this as you sit in your nice warm home, feeling safe from harm.

People CAN and DO change things for the better. It is the brave ones who are willing to make an effort to protest, to write letters, to discuss these things who make change. If we all did nothing, we would be living like cavemen.

Culture is one thing, tradition is one thing - basic human rights are quite another.

How the hell can you say this...?

every people has their own forbidden apples by their backrounds,traditions ,beliefs etc...and pity thats (honor killing) one of most terrible tradition in a little part of Turkish people,and i think thats only bad education metter,and humans have to know they can not punish others by their strange and silly rules.anyway we have to try understand each people has their different freedom opinion to....so its better trying to understand diffrences then to judge em easly,even if its not true or terrible for us..

OK, so message from Kai and MrX67 is to accept this and do nothing. Thank goodness there are other people in this world who challenge such evil, and do not sit and do nothing...

Scalpel is right about the ethnic background of those traditions. I mentioned the same thing in a more polite way in my post before Scalpel.

People CAN and DO change things for the better. It is the brave ones who are willing to make an effort to protest, to write letters, to discuss these things who make change. If we all did nothing, we would be living like cavemen.

I agree with that idea, coem on my friend, lets talk about the solutions, what can be done for the evil things happening all around?? without an offense or defense, lets just share ideas.. Who knows maybe the talkings may turn into action (which I belive should turn)..

with your permit I will start..
As a religious person I think if the thought, image and comprehend of the life Hereafter is taken from people's minds, if nobody thinks about a punshment or reward for the things s/he do in this life then the life will turn out to be incredibly cruel. Because strongs, powerful ones will try to do anything in order to have control and be pleased. They will never accept any limitations which they will dislike..They will have no moral values which are the basic necessity in societies..and there will be no respect at all.. because the question comes to mind: why the hell should I obey the rules and limit my already limited life with such rules.. why should I work honorably? I dont have much time in this world so I have live how I wish.. They will mos probably never respect anyone's freedoms unless has a virtue given by the Creator...

(I am sorry I need to go now, we will continue..)

in Jordan....such type of killing considered as a crime..and in last year of saddam husseins's regim also was a crime.....
but it is the eastern beliefes..it is seen as washing the honor of the family..
its hard to the family that thier 15 girl had a sexual relationship...but not enough to kill her...
the other side then should be punished..coz he was the one who does the first crime: have sex with 15 years girl...
thats how i think

Hmm... Honor is very important...
But being fair and compassionate is vital too..
I think these events are seen due to the fact that the Turkish justice system has collapsed and the moral values of people have been destroyed...


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A recent development from the so called "honour killings" and if there was ever a misnomer this is it is the spate of suicides amongst young girls in SE Turkey. Young girls are being "encouraged" and forced to end their lives to protect the family.

MERHABA:


I agree with you Aenigma. There no reason in the world to kill your owm daughter, you have to protect her agianst everything... thsoe parent should be kill as well.

These phenomena are remnaints of old customs, and those old customs are remnaints of pure economics. We know that in the most of societies, both western and eastern, there existed (or exists) a tradition that a girl must stay a virgin untill her marriage. If girl spoils her virginity, she cannot find a husband and she becames a burden for her family (similar to a case of widows and suttee in India). Be it killing, a monastery, excomunication or ANY KIND of condemnation, it is the same. We don't have right to kill ANYBODY, be it our meat and flash or not, for each human creature is somebody's meat and flesh. But I find western "sophisticated" ways equally brutal. The girls which are castaway by their families often end in prostitution or drug-dealing as their only way to survive. It's maybe worse than killing, for it's double moral. And one more difference: countries like Turkia talk about such events in public for they want to show their dissaproval. Western countries are enough wise not to mention such events, for they want to keep unimpaired image of their perfect and human societies. And we don't think about one aspect: too much sexual freedom means pushing our children into a world of immorality and diseases like AIDS. We live differently than our grandmas and grandpas, but it means we should make compromises, not to live in hypocrisia.

that is very true duda...but so called 'honour killings' do need to be stopped.like many others on the thread i'm still struggling to grasp the concept that they killed their family member to regain their 'honour' where is the honour in such an act i certainly wouldnt condone this act and if someone tried to do this to my daughter i wuld kill them with my bare hands..and her consent is irrelevant,at such an age she shouldnt be sexually active and if she is then people should be questioning why she was in a position to consent to sex in the first place..why is it that young people want to throw their virginity away anyway?:-S something is going wrong with societies everywhere when people are having sex so young..makes u wonder about their parents...