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Honor Killing in Turkey
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| 20. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 01:36 pm |
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Uneducated people, brain washed by ancient, out-dated traditions and religious beliefs commit these crimes. It's mind boggling to think stuff like this happens in the 21st century. Just terrible, when will we as human race finally evolve and leave behind STUPID beliefs like these? Tradition and religion only make people go backwards, not forward!!
Erem,
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| 21. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 01:43 pm |
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Quoting Erem: Tradition and religion only make people go backwards, not forward!! |
Tradition I agree, but not religion. It is man's interuptation of religion which is at fault, not religion itself.
I do wonder at the women in these families. Do they have no power to defend their child. Do they not complain, go to the police, do ANYTHING at all to defend their child?
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| 22. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 02:22 pm |
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Well, I would argue the point, but I don't want to start anything unnecessary.  So we'll leave it at that hehe.
Erem,
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| 23. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 02:36 pm |
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As I mentioned the book, Saudi Princess, yes it is about killing but it also indicates what little influence women have on the decision to subject their daughter to an honor killing. It is a compeling read and not all about death.
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| 24. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 02:37 pm |
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Quoting Erem: Uneducated people, brain washed by ancient, out-dated traditions and religious beliefs commit these crimes. It's mind boggling to think stuff like this happens in the 21st century. Just terrible, when will we as human race finally evolve and leave behind STUPID beliefs like these? Tradition and religion only make people go backwards, not forward!!
Erem, |
Divine religions are sent to put humans' lives in an order, not to create caos. Religion is against all evil and it is so obvious for the ones who has comprehension!!Opposite to your idea, these kinds of killers are the ones who are far away from the religion..if u dont want to start anything unnecessary, do not try to defame religion... it will be inevitable 
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| 25. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 04:17 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: Quoting Erem: Tradition and religion only make people go backwards, not forward!! |
Tradition I agree, but not religion. It is man's interuptation of religion which is at fault, not religion itself.
I do wonder at the women in these families. Do they have no power to defend their child. Do they not complain, go to the police, do ANYTHING at all to defend their child? |
It's really sick when a woman is unable to defend her child from these killings, the whole concept of these honor killings is making me sick. I just can't for the life of me understand how their love for the child doesn't overcome this incredibly distorted need to keep a "good" name. I agree with someone else who posted, I can't believe things like this are still going on.
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| 26. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 04:35 pm |
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Quote:
It's really sick when a woman is unable to defend her child from these killings, the whole concept of these honor killings is making me sick. I just can't for the life of me understand how their love for the child doesn't overcome this incredibly distorted need to keep a "good" name. I agree with someone else who posted, I can't believe things like this are still going on. |
There is nothing much to be surprised, these things has happenned before ,(from the beginning and will continue till the doomsday,) this is Satan's work. And he is delayed until a certain time, his time is limited so he has to do the best he can.. havent we seen worse things?? and dont we still see worse??
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| 27. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 05:53 pm |
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Quoting alperhkn:
There is nothing much to be surprised, these things has happenned before ,(from the beginning and will continue till the doomsday,) this is Satan's work. And he is delayed until a certain time, his time is limited so he has to do the best he can.. havent we seen worse things?? and dont we still see worse?? |
It would be nice to think that these kind of problems could be solved with education, rather than just accepting them as something that will 'continue till doomsday'! The concept of 'honour killings', stem from devoutly religious uneducated bigoted people, who care too much about what others think about them/their families name (honour). Honour killings cannot be excused as the 'Work of Satan'!, they are the result of narrow minded people who feel under pressure by the beliefs of society, and interpret religion wrong and take it to the extreme.
Also, in a previous post by Alper I read, 'Opposite to your idea, these kinds of killers are the ones who are far away from the religion'... I would be interested to know what their motivation is for killing their children? I thought the whole concept of these killings derive from uneducated people who interpret the Quran too litrally due to uneducation, and the misbeliefs of society.
I read in the Quran - part 5 sürah 4 'women' 15. As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or until Allah appoint for them a new way (through new legislation).
So its easy to see how a very uneducated illiterate person could misinterpret this and take it too far, I think its a mix of both a devoutness to religion, and an old feudal tradition that should have by now been wiped out. I dont think religion is totally to blame for the concept of honour killings, but it certainly seems to influence these peoples ideas.
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| 28. |
25 Oct 2006 Wed 11:43 pm |
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Quoting Pandora: Quoting alperhkn:
There is nothing much to be surprised, these things has happenned before ,(from the beginning and will continue till the doomsday,) this is Satan's work. And he is delayed until a certain time, his time is limited so he has to do the best he can.. havent we seen worse things?? and dont we still see worse?? |
It would be nice to think that these kind of problems could be solved with education, rather than just accepting them as something that will 'continue till doomsday'! The concept of 'honour killings', stem from devoutly religious uneducated bigoted people, who care too much about what others think about them/their families name (honour). Honour killings cannot be excused as the 'Work of Satan'!, they are the result of narrow minded people who feel under pressure by the beliefs of society, and interpret religion wrong and take it to the extreme.
Also, in a previous post by Alper I read, 'Opposite to your idea, these kinds of killers are the ones who are far away from the religion'... I would be interested to know what their motivation is for killing their children? I thought the whole concept of these killings derive from uneducated people who interpret the Quran too litrally due to uneducation, and the misbeliefs of society.
I read in the Quran - part 5 sürah 4 'women' 15. As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or until Allah appoint for them a new way (through new legislation).
So its easy to see how a very uneducated illiterate person could misinterpret this and take it too far, I think its a mix of both a devoutness to religion, and an old feudal tradition that should have by now been wiped out. I dont think religion is totally to blame for the concept of honour killings, but it certainly seems to influence these peoples ideas. |
Hi Pandora,
Actually, what I have written about Satan's work was not a "solution" nor an "excuse", it is a kind of "defination", "explanation". The best thing Satan does is to make showy packages. By doing so, he shows a bad thing as good and good things as bad. This is what the honor killers are deceived by. Clearing their honor by killing is shown them as a good thing. This is the reason of the events.
I agree with you about the solution. Education might be one of the solutions but the question of the type of education is another matter to be contemplated in another forum topic.
But I dont agree with your thoughts about misinterpretation of Qur'an. In fact you have written a verse to imply that Islam orders to kill sinners, I need to say that if you dont read the whole, it might be misunderstood and that will not be the fault of the religion but the reader's. In fact as you know the verse continues with other verses like that:
4:16 And punish [thus] both of the guilty parties; [13] but IF THEY BOTH REPENT AND MEND THEIR WAYS, LEAVE THEM ALONE: for, behold, God is an acceptor of repentance, a dispenser of grace. [14]
4:17 Verily, God's acceptance of repentance relates only to those who do evil out of ignorance and then repent before their time runs out: [15] and it is they unto whom God will turn again in His mercy - for God is all-knowing, wise;
4:18 whereas repentance shall not be accepted from those who do evil deeds until their dying hour and then say, [16] "Behold, I now repent"; nor from those who die as deniers of the truth: it is these for whom We have readied grievous suffering
and it continues....
and one must read the whole before giving a decision especially in such an important matter which may influence the eternal life.
6:140 Lost, indeed, are they who, in their weak-minded ignorance, slay their children and declare as forbidden that which God has provided for them as sustenance, falsely ascribing [such prohibitions] to God: they have gone astray and have not found the right path.
17:31 Hence, do not kill your children for fear of poverty : [36] it is We who shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily, killing them is a great sin.
There are some other verses which says that killing children cannot be accepted especially in order to show off to other people. But it will be long and I dont want to steal times of people.. I can send to anyone as PM..
So I can say that religion has nothing to do with that wicked, evil act. I can also write some verses from the Bible but I leave it to the Christian friends..
Individual weak-mindedness should not be attributed to religions.
regards,
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| 29. |
26 Oct 2006 Thu 04:52 am |
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Guys, don't turn this into a religious war thread, other wise the admins will close it. '
Erem,
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| 30. |
26 Oct 2006 Thu 07:09 am |
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Alot of things influence murder these days but I do not believe that Religion is one of them!
For example: This was on the news quite a long time ago - A film called Chuckie was wathced by two ten year old boys which then influenced them to snatch a 2 year old boy and beat him to death.
These Deaths are influenced by our own media and films and through many other things in life, and it is too late for people to realise it until something terrible has happened.
On the other hand religion has helped people who were in the wrong to be set straight again.
For example: A boy of 16 was a a serious drug addict and found himself into trouble with the police many of times. He even came close to death and at which point a priest was visiting the ward on the hospital and came into the boys life. The boy from then on did not touch a single drug and became a loyal Christian. He even talked to those who were recovering from such addictions like himself to share how he recovered with 'Gods' help.
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