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Forum Messages Posted by CANLI

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Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2111.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 05:54 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting CANLI:


So ? lol
Anyone can claim anyone to be his wife,or to be her husband ?!!!
Are you kidding ?!!!!

Yes,İslam gives me all the rights,but who said a husband will ?!
We are way to smart to trust you 'men' lol


At least I can take this post as religious/islamic rules ARE NOT ENOUGH for protecting women's right Canli.
Or at least, in THESE DAYS, Qu'ran is not enough to protect women's right.



Yes,making reseaches in İslam and in Qur'an is good thing

İslamic rules is something,and MEN is something else...
İslamic rules protect my rights,yes...but how can it force the man to give them to me ?!
He will go to HELL if he didnt...ok,good,cool...but would i be waiting that long to take my rights ?!
Religious marriage was ok in the past because people numbers were limited,people know who is married to whom,and who is divorced from whom
They go to İmam,marry them and divorce them,and its easily to see into their rights ...

But now,who knows whom ?!
So OF COURSE i need official marriage,official divorce to prove my rights,which im going to take by İslam rules.

Bana anladın mı ?
or its Beni ?!



Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2112.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 05:35 pm

Quoting thehandsom:



But Canli
As a muslim, you dont need an official marriage..
Are you in favor of official marriage?
You should not.
Because, as you said, Islam gives you all the rights in the case of divorce.
You should not need an official one.



So ? lol
Anyone can claim anyone to be his wife,or to be her husband ?!!!
Are you kidding ?!!!!

Yes,İslam gives me all the rights,but who said a husband will ?!
We are way to smart to trust you 'men' lol



Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2113.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 05:30 pm

handsom,you are making me do researches in İslam and Qur'an,which i didnt do in my entire life.
So i owe you thanks lol

But till i ask,let me ask you,do you know something called 'Khol'a'
İts divorce type,know it ?!
By it Rasul SAV gave the right to a woman to divorce her husband who was one of the very good and religious people,because she dont think he was handsom enough
Even she stated he was a VERY good and tender husband,but she cant be still married to him because of his looks.
So,do you think if a woman want divorce because her husband remarry,its not valid ?!



Thread: Hamsi

2114.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 05:20 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:

You don't eat the head anyway, so what's the point of grilling it?


Yes,we open the fish and fill it with some vegitables and spicies,so if you take off the head ,things will go out of it.
We take head off only when we make filet.



Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2115.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 05:18 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:



(What about Islam, sorry, it just got to my head - if you want a divorce, do you have the religious one and it has a legal value or do you go to a court and it has a religious value?)



You know divorce is trouble,its almots same as you have it there some how.
You can get a nice friendly divorce where 2 people make all the finiancial arrangemets,and then they have it civilian with a religious value
You can have the divorce in civilian office
But,if it gets messy,then its in courts but also at the end with religious value.

You cant have religious one alone,how,what do you mean ?!mmmmmm...
İ guess there is something you are messing here
Religious one not seperated than civilian one,you see in the past,people's number was little,they can have religious one only
But now,it cant ...we must have both...actually we just have one,and it have the religious value as well
Both in marriage and divorce.



Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2116.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 05:01 pm

Quote:

Quoting thehandsom:



CANLI
You are simply trying to soften the image of some clear set of rules here.
Can you tell me where it is written that women can divorce the husband for husband having a second wife?

Say that your husband informed you and you rejected..can you divorce him for using his 'right' which is clearly stated as a right FOR MEN in Qu'ran?
and also can you explain this clearly from equality of women and men point of view?
Why dont you accept it as saying that women dont have equal rights comparing to men according to Qu'ran?
Most scholars will accept that..
You are trying to defend indefensible here..


Where it written....i will have to look it up,ask someone who knows,because im not İmam you know

Of course i can have divorce if he marry another women..
İts his right to marry another woman dear,but NOT his right to keep me !
This is MY choice,if i accept it or not!
So,YES,by the book,i can have the divorce.

You want me to accept what i dont feel it,or what i dont live it ?!
For me...if the husband want to marry another woman,then that means he doesnt want his wife,So...why the heck would she want him ?!
So,to me''personally'' talking about having another wife,is not an option, İslam gave me that right and doesnt force me to such marriage so why would i feel not equal ?!
İts same as Non Muslim woman find out about her cheated husband
And ''personally''again i agree with İslam heritage system,for all the reason i've dictated above.
Women dont have any financial responsibilities towards anyone at ALL .
So,if ''these days'' a women accept to be supported by her brother after her father died ,and she is a working woman,her salary goes only to her...no accomodation,no feeding,NOTHİNG...all are provided.
And if she is married,she will have her part of the heritage,her sallary,ALL of it,and STİLL has NO financial responsibilities,her husband will,and MUST provide all.
So...actually,to me,heritage rules also dont provoke that equality

Maybe men should complain

Look handsom,those are women's rights in İslam,women should know them,and use them
İ admit many women dont do this
Many women dont get divorce when husband remarry ''see Gulf countries''
many women help financially in the house expenses,even sometimes their husbands took over their wives salaries

But that is NOT in İslam...
İslam gave us the rights,if we let go of some of them,then its not İslam mistak.
İts ours,and our societies mistake also.

But NO handsom,i dont feel i dont have equal rights with men.
İm not İmam,but i bought a book,i have read about women's rights in İslam,and women's duties,and about men's right in İslam,and men's duties.
So,as long as İslam giving me those rights,i wont let anyone of them,and i will grab what im not given...because its MY RİGHTS

ALLAH giving them to me,so i wont wait for any man to allow or deny !



Thread: Hamsi

2117.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 04:25 pm

Guys,i was asking who said they were shocked when saw fish served with their heads on...
So,i dont know exactly who to address and which cuisine,
İs it not normal in Western cuisine to serve the fish with head on,even if its grilled ?!



Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2118.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 04:14 pm

Quoting Daydreamer:



Actually,that wasnt exactly what i meant,
First to be fair, let's not say all guys,let's eliminate this with the percentage of men who already doing so,
The Muslim men who are married to more than to 1 woman,and the men who are having double affairs.

İm saying,when it is in İslam marrying another women should be for some reasons and with some conditions,but most men who are marrying a second wife dont even have those excuses,and just using it to marry another woman !
An in the other hand,non muslims doing the same thing but not by marriage 'because its not allowed' but by having another afair,so the result in the end he is having another woman in his life also.
İ wasnt refering to whom is carrying responsibility and wether he is carrying it r not.

Second,you got it wrong,women in İslam have the choice whether to accept her husband marrying another woman or not.
İt wont stop him also of course,but one of the conditions in the second marrige that he must inform his first wife about it BEFORE remarrying,and its her choice,if she accept that he will marry again and she be still his wife,or to have the divorce,and leave him.
So actually,YES she can divorce him if he remarry,its her right to do it by İslam rules.

And normally,women dont have more than 1 relation,i am aware of course that women do cheat too,so that means they do have more than 1 man ,but still its very minor percentage of women who do so
So wehther she is married or in a relationship ,she mostly be faithful to one man.
İts happening with Muslim women,and non Muslim women also

And i didnt say ALL non educated women would live prostitute life,that was the extream of course,or an exaggeration ,still some also did,but surelly you also cant deny life wont be easy for none educated women,even if they work,their income wont provide an easy life for them
But of course knowing that she will always have the financial support,wehther she is working or not,wether she used it or not,would make it lots easier so,as you say she wouldnt have to live under mercy for a husband she is not comfortable with.

İ agree that women in West ''not non Muslims women,because our Christians women in the East are same as Muslims..its Traditions matter also'' have freedom than women in East.

But,as for Muslim women,if they 'Men and women' follow the rules of İslam,women would be free too.
So,she would be free to marry who she wants,and divorce him if she wants ' and society wont be looking bad at her,because its her right by İslam'
And remarry again if she wants.
Women can satisfy their needs also in the concept of marriage.

İts not just İslamic thing,but having affairs out of marriage is a sin in all religions,so we dont see it as freedom.
So i actually cant say that its women right to become prostitutes,it would be like saying its the thief right to be a theif !

But actually,who is not free is the Christian women,you see,in Christianity,its not allowed to get divorce,and who get it is rejected from church ''in my country its this way,we are Orthodocs here'' and if she got the divorce in civilian courts ''asking to be divorced accourding to Muslims rules'' she wont be able to remarry again in church
So,...she is hocked !

Anyway,Muslims or non Muslims,women still have way to gain their rights!



Thread: The lack of powerful liberal Muslim voices

2119.       CANLI
5084 posts
 10 Mar 2008 Mon 01:30 am

To make long post short,
İ was refering to what you said,compairing East and west,and men behaviour.

To me,at the bottem of it,men having more than 1 woman
İn İslam,even there are limitation,and conditions to have more than 1 wife,but they are skipping them to have more 1 woman..'not all men of course'
And in West,they are doing same also,but outside marriage,they dont marry more than 1 but they have afairs,so the result is same,they are having more than 1 woman ''again not all men''

So,my question wasnt actually directing to you personally,it was wondering about the behaviour

Why cant they just be with 1 woman ?!

İf they dont love her,dont want her,leave her...but dont fool her with others!
Loving her,then why looking at others ?!



Thread: Hamsi

2120.       CANLI
5084 posts
 09 Mar 2008 Sun 02:12 am

İts quite interesting,and new info too,i didnt know its abnormal to you to cook the fish with heads on !
So,that means you always take the heads off even when its grilled ?!



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