Quoting thehandsom:

You seem to forget what we have done to Kurds/Armenians/Greeks and what we are still doing to the kurds which seems to the only crowded ethnic group.

Quoting catwoman:

Explain that more please. I'm really curious what you think his 'agenda', other then just saying what he thinks, is.

Quoting Daydreamer:

Guys, you're free to disagree with him and anyone you wish in the forum, but accusing people of having secret agendas is simply ridiculous and weakens the message of your posts.

Quoting Daydreamer:

If Handsom's agenda is to corrupt Turkey's image then yours must be showing how wonderful, non-nationalistic, non-brainwashed, allowing everyone express their opinions in public your country is.

Quoting Daydreamer:

What I gather from discussions like yours is that the fear and hatred towards 'the others' (those who dare to express their thoughts freely) is a proof of your nationalism. You just have to have enemies...How sad...

Quoting thehandsom:

The concept of 'foreign powers, dark forces, foreign elements, pressing of a button, secret agenda, seeds of discord etc' were invented long time ago in 70s and 80s.

*They are the ones trying to divide Turkey
*They are the ones made us lost the WWI when Germany lost
*They are the ones made Turks and Kurds enemy of each other while we were living peacefully.
*They caused the entire ermenian thing
*They are the ones who are trying to enter the unis with their turbans
*They are trying to convert our people to cristianity with those missionaries.
*They placed the entire left/right problem into Turkey years ago
*They are the people having a button somewhere in EU and USA and pressing on when Turkey does well.
*They have budgets and pay the enemy of Turks in other countries.
*They killed Ugur Mumcu, Hrant Dink etc
*They are behind the energy problem of Turkey and the death of labours in Tuzla Dockyard-It is a recent invention btw-

Quoting thehandsom:

I am still expecting, somebody will come up with the idea that 'farting problem after eating too much kuru fasulye' is the result of 'dark forces' as well.

Quoting cynicmystic:

I love it when people like you register in these forums to bash Turks.

Your double-standards are lovely.

Quoting catwoman:

This fear of someone having an agenda is pretty funny actually . What can thehandsom do with his 'agenda'? Bring down the Turkish republic? Start a terrorist organization?

Quoting cynicmystic:

Because I am under the impression that handsom starts these rather "charged" topics with a bit of an "agenda",

Quoting cynicmystic:

I think your thread is insincere my friend.

Quoting thehandsom:

Since you accept those incursions are not solving the problem, why on earth we keep entering northern iraq with the promises from army such as 'this is it..we will finish them this time' and then killing 200-300-500 and get our soldiers killed?

Quoting thehandsom:

See, even you realize that it is not the solution!!
Then, why are we NOT pursuing REAL solutions then?

Quoting thehandsom:

we going there, killing some young people, they come back, killing our soldiers

Quoting thehandsom:

We (Turks and Kurds) have to live together. It is the real objective!!
Now tell me! did 'going into northern iraq' (more than 25 times) bring us closer to that objective or not?

Quoting thehandsom:

There are not very many deep states(or deep state descriptions) in Turkey!! Demirel, Ecevit (he never said publicly such as 'Deep state is the Army' but many insinuations) and many politicians publicly explained what deep state is.

Quoting thehandsom:

But this group always worked for the army with the knowledge of army!!

Quoting thehandsom:

Why do you think many times some genarals are coming up and saying 'I know him, he is a nationalist' for the people taken to courts?

Quoting thehandsom:

I dont think I can be kurdish-racist since I am not kurdish. And I will be glad if you show me inconsistencies in my posts

Quoting thehandsom:

Look, nationalism always requires enemies. it requires 'them'..There is always us and them in matches etc but many other citizens of other countries see 'them' as enemies as we (Turks) do.

Quoting thehandsom:

a tiny example here: the mother of the boy who knifed british hooligans to death, was saying on the telly, 'she was very proud of what her son did'. That type of behaviour can only be explained years and years of 'shovenistic brain washing'. She was just proud his son killed some of 'them' when he found the opportunity and he showed how nationalist he was and how much he loved his country.

Quoting thehandsom:

I cant understand really, when it comes to other ideas of ataturk we are easy to forget them but when it comes to nationalism it is that hard. An example of them is 'state control'-devletcilik and we easily forgot it because it was not suitable with the free economic model. Ataturk's ideas are not god given. He himself was a revolutionist.

Quoting thehandsom:

Kurdish problem is in our borders..Do not look for the reasons outside..
Reading 'sark islahat plani' thread might be a good start to understand what the real problem is.

Quoting thehandsom:

we have to learn to live together peacefully..what are you going to to do with 15 million kurds then?

Quoting lady in red:

Quoting thehandsom:

I previously mentioned this on several occasions : We entered northern Iraq many times -I lost count to be honest-
They did not solve anything. did they?

Quoting thehandsom:

I am still amazed after zillions of incursions, people -generically speaking- still support these, while shaking with national pride!!
All we end up with deads..
This is very sad, annoying and quite pathetic.

Quoting thehandsom:

I don't think you have much knowledge about the deep state in Turkey. when you say 'SO-called deep-state', you show your 'impeccable' knowledge about it by trying to make them as a trivial matter.

Quoting thehandsom:

So what is deep-state exactly, in a nutshell?
As Demirel (ex PM and the ex president of Turkey) put it: 'Deep state is the Army'. btw..

Quoting thhandsom:

Ugur Mumcu was killed by the deep state..was he not?

Quoting thehandsom:

Well I disagree on that..
We have to live together..

Quoting thehandsom:

But what I am sure that, most of the Turks are unaware of where the borders of those terms.

Quoting thehandsom:

If you think that what you have as nationalism in turkey is the nationalism Ataturk tried to implement, then you have no idea about the transformation of Turkish nationalism during second world war.

Quoting thehandsom:

What you have is the racist nationalism of Nihat Atsiz not nationalism of Ataturk!!
Even if we ignore Nihal Atsiz factor, we are talking about the time which was 100 years ago. It was the rise of nationalism etc.

Quoting the handsom:

Nationalism itself, as an ideolgy, classify people as 'us' and 'them' .

Quoting thehandsom:

That is part of the reason why it is easy to slide into racism from nationalism (same rule applies to religion as well).

Quoting thehandsom:

The Kurdish problem is purely the result of this extremist nationalism for example. And it is so obvious, the extend of nationalism is undermining Ataturk's main objective of westernization for Turkey..

Quoting thehandsom:

As one of our professors(Baskin Oran) put it 'nationalism was the necessary to build a state 100 years ago but now you have to get rid of the nationalism in order to keep your state together'.

Quoting CANLI:

Because they dont get what they want from them anyway !

The İraq war is a good example too
So in return,although USA and UK occupy İraq,and surely protecting the borders is their responsibilities
Or their puppet government 'İf US ordered them of course' but still it didnt stop the PKK and their attacks,by protecting the borders of the country under their authorities
So made a mess and let Türkiye handle it
İt will be gain by all means
- Will keep İraq occupied in a war with Türkiye and save USA and UK some headache
- Will make Türkiye occupied in a war with PKK and may need or ask for USA help ...what a catch
- USA will be against the Turkish operation in the first as a peace maker 'as it happened',then will agree with it,because its looking for its allay interests 'making Türkiye a favor as if turkish will buy it '
- Türkiye will lose its credibility in both the Middle East and the İslamic world for fighting İraq

Türkiye was smart enough not falling in it and the operations were limited as they have said ,and we were smart enough not condemning Türkiye too,so they didnt lose their credibility

İf this is how allaies plays for each other favors,i dont want to think about how will they play against
We have proverb says ' Oh God YOU handle my friends,but my enemies i will handle'

Quoting Daydreamer:

But it's not really why I think it's better they left. I don't mind anyone having whatever ideas. Their eagerness to insult everyone and pose threads is the reason. And, frankly speaking, I find it surprising that you, always being fair and polite, don't mind that.

Quoting Daydreamer:

They got paranoid, looked for terrorist plots and supporters everywhere and that lost them.

Quoting Avalon:

I am not Turkish but of Turkish origin and believe me my family never consider themselves racists although their opinions are so close not to say the same like jan's and lapin's.Strange,perhaps the point of view changes when u emigrate as a Turk abroad and get the grasp of so called reform wind?no idea!