No, I never read another translation before translating a poem. There may naturally be parts similarly rendered but then certain phrases must be translated in a certain way.

Presenting the pun in the first verse of the last quartet in English is not as easy as you think. You need to put a note explaining the tradition. You must also provide another note explaining the equivocal use of "Canlar".

Napoleon said, the shortest way is the highway. If we were to present such technically perfect, and elaborate translations, we would prefer to publish them in the book format. I personally don´t have that much knowledge about translation. With that poem, it was just a case of hopelessly trying to improve an amateur translation. For many people here, reading poetry must be an amateur endeavour. I know quite a few things about literature but my knowledge is never complete. My profession couldn´t be more distant from literature, I am designing electronic circuits for a living.

If you have any suggestions, we could use them for coming up with an improved version of that translation. 

Never heard a name like this but the word "kök" which sounds like "kök"=root and "gök" must be common between Kazakh and Turkish. We say, gök mavisi meaning the blue (color) of the sky. Furthermore, count numbers are the same in most Turkic languages. There are just minor differences in pronunciation. When I hear a Kazakh count from 0 to 9, I feel as if he is going to shoot me at the end of the counting. Azeri language is very melodic though it sounds a bit funny to Turkish ears. A while ago I started writing a review on mutual intelligibility between speakers of Turkish and other Turkic languages. I thought no one was paying any attention and discontinued. To sum it up, when I carefully listen to lanuages like Uzbek and Kirghis, I do understand the general context and Azeri is the closest language to Turkish. Kazakh is a bit different but every now and then you hear a common word. I also found Tatar can be understood if listened carefully.

I actually translated that line as : Can and the fellows have tears in their eyes. You have to make a comprimise here between content and style. Is the audience reading this poem with the same political motivation as the poet and his Turkish readers or would they choose style over content? Mine is of course not the best possible translation.

As you may know, Turkish language has only short wovels which form a steady meter. In English however, there are both long and short wovels resulting in more complicated rhyme patterns like iambic pentameter etc. This is quite similar with the MEFAULUN-FAILUN-FAILATUN´s of Aruz verse. It takes a an eminent poet to come up with a translation which is technically and stylisticly excellent. Can Yucel was one such translator. His translation of Sonnet 66 by Shakespeare meets all these requirements. He probably saw that Turkish people would not want to read English sonnets and he turned the famous sonnet into a form you could listen to while drinking raki at some meyhane.

tired with all these restful death i cry;
as to behold desert a beggar born,
and needy nothing trimmed in jollity,
and purest faith unhappily forsworn,
and gilled honour shamefully misplaced,
and maiden virtue rudely sturmpeted,
and right perfection wrongfully disgraced,
and strength by limping sway disabled,
and art made tongue-tied by authority,
and folly, doctor-like, controlling skill,
and simple truth miscalled simplicity,
and captive good attending captain ill;

tired with all these, from these would i be gone,
save that, to die, i leave my love alone.

vazgeçtim bu dünyadan tek ölüm paklar beni,
değmez bu yangın yeri, avuç açmaya değmez.
değil mi ki çiğnenmiş inancın en seçkini,
değil mi ki yoksullar mutluluktan habersiz,
değil mi ki ayaklar altında insan onuru,
o kızoğlan kız erdem dağlara kaldırılmış,
ezilmiş, hor görülmüş el emeği, göz nuru,
ödlekler geçmiş başa, derken mertlik bozulmuş,
değil mi ki korkudan dili bağlı sanatın,
değil mi ki çılgınlık sahip çıkmış düzene,
doğruya doğru derken eğriye çıkmış adın,
değil mi ki kötüler kadı olmuş yemen´ e
vazgeçtim bu dünyadan, dünyamdan geçtim ama,
seni yalnız komak var ya, o koyuyor adama.

LIR. I wouldn´t use "without cease" in a casual conversation, that´s a given but you know it is really hard to find rhyming couples in English. It is actually difficult to write with rhythm and meter in your language. That´s why translated poems are full of forced rhymes.

Not just the genes Barba, there are linguistc and cultural links that hold people together. Frome a linguistic point of view these languages are related to one another this way or  another: Mongolian,Japanese, Korean, Finnish, Turkic Languages. Finnish syntax is so close to Turkish, the syntax is virtually the same, the same agglunative morphology. For example, in Turkish, you would add the word: "mi" or "mu" to turn it into interrogative; in Finnish you do the same thing with "ko". Nouns have cases like Turkish. Yet there is little similarity racially. Arabs and Jews are so close racially that in most case they are practically the same people but they form the opposite poles culturally and politically.

Well, "it rained without cease" sounds quite alright to me. A google search will confirm this.

A geneticist will answer Alameda´s question more accurately. Nevertheless, here is what I know:

* People are like gene soups, they carry cromosoms from diversified sources.

* Russian,Kazakh and Kirgiz people are genetically close to Mongolians.

* Turks in modern Turkey share genes with almost all the neighboring countries. A recent study found that the Asian connection Turks keep talking about has  no genetic evidence. It is indeed one of the least dominant gene groups.

* Mongolian genes are to be found in all of Asia and Most of Europe hence America. Mongolian repeatedly occupied vast lands in Asia and Europe leaving behind their genes.

For 100 Euros you could trace your genetical past down to 11th century. Check out these:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090528000944AApLVBc

http://www.igenea.com/

Peacetrain, do a google search "templates of thought". I did make it up but it seems some other people use it too. I am just tired of hearing these canned thouhts. Ask him about NASA, he will find an anti-panturanist connection.

I often withstand this torment quite nicely. You must give me a break sometimes. I have been hearing this stuff for 30 years and it doesn´t get anywhere.

As for the mod stuff. It is more of a liability. I have never abused this title. I could pass it on anyone who thinks he could make time for it.  

Good thing you have templates stashed somewhere. This way you don´t have to do any research.

Take your clocks 85 years back in time, this would take you to the birth of the new Turkish republic built on the ashes of the Ottoman Empire in the wake of a war of independence that claimed the lives of millions of people on countless front in all directions. This country fought against everyone from Indians to Aussies, from the French to the English. Kemal Ataturk established the new republic within what he called the national territory. His regime was Jacobian in essence but that seemed to be the only way to put into effect the radical changes in his mind. He used his government to introduce democracy, freedom and equality to a society which had long been denied of them amid clashes and quarrels.

Ataturk died in 1939. Hitler, Franco,Mussolini came one generation later. The world witnessed cruelties performed by those "new" leaders. Decades later, the leaders of the democratic world washed Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq in human blood.  

Don´t try to teach me any lessons, I was not raised in a palace. When there were lines I waited on those lines, when there were interruptions in democracy I was there as one of the sufferers. I watched social democrats ruin the country by breaking chairs on each others´ head. 

At the end of the day, I love this country as much as anyone else does his own country.