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Forum Messages Posted by vineyards

(1954 Messages in 196 pages - View all)
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Thread: Which one do you like better?

781.       vineyards
1954 posts
 02 Jun 2009 Tue 09:09 pm

Tek basina is a famous old song. I can´t remember if it was adapted from a foreign original or whether it was the original song itself. Anyway, two prominent female singers sang this song in the past. Which one do you like better.

This one by Ayten Alpman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNkFxOAFM_M&feature=related

or the other one by Nilüfer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTBi6b4pFt8

 



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

782.       vineyards
1954 posts
 02 Jun 2009 Tue 03:03 am

I unfortunately have to repeat, you have a lot of cliches about Muslims and Turks in your mind. Some of the broadest minded persons I have ever known were Muslims who regard this religion as a covenant between God and themselves. Islam is not a shallow belief system, it is at least as sophisticated as other religions. There is a strong movement of sufizm for example providing for the philosophical openings of the religion. It takes years to come to grasp of the essence of the sufi school. It is not just something you can judge based on a vague definition. In our country, Kemal Ataturk established a secular republic and its first parliament gave suffrage to women earlier than most European countries.  This happened in a muslim country. 

 

If you are unhappy with the Turkish minority in your country, you are welcome to sign up with a radical right wing party and pave the path for ousting those people.  We did not buy their tickets 50 years ago so we don´t care about them today. They are in a different country, striving to become a part of it. They often don´t even speak Turkish (talking about the third generation) and usually waiver from their turkish citizenship since they don´t want to fulfill their military service in a country they only know through their parents. By and large, it is your problem.

 

It is of course, not normal, boasting of your alcohol consumption, support for the gays, and post-modern ways. Just by saying them you prove you don´t know the first thing about life in big cities. Day in day out, we are sharing life with males and females who do all sorts of jobs from truck driving to delivery services. You may regret being entitled to a lesser salary the European style, but in Turkey both sexes are offered the same amount of salaries.  This is also true for the military. We have had a female prime minister again earlier than many European countries. To cut it short, we are happy with our lives. 

 

When there was a war in Iraq our government opened the doors for the Kurdish refugees and if my memory is not fooling me some 300.000 of them flooded into our borders.  No European country is doing this.  Greek and Italian war boats actually drive African refugees back to international waters. 

 

In the 80´s and 90´s, so many political (mostly Kurdish) refugees emigrated to Sweden, Germany and Holland. At that time, the governments in those countries were playing a political game. Now they have a drug traffic problem...  Many of those people were wanted by the Turkish police. For example:

 

"Fehriye Erdal is a female terrorist of Kurdish descent from Turkey. She was one of the three DHKP-C members involved in the assassination of a Turkish businessman, Ozdemir Sabanci and two of his employees on January 9, 1996 in Istanbul, Turkey. In 1999, she was captured in Belgium.[1] At the time of her arrest, she held a fake passport under the name Nese Yildirim. Belgian officials were able to identify her only after her fingerprints were taken. In 2006, a couple of hours before her sentence was announced and in spite of being under 24-hour surveillance of the Belgian Secret Service, she managed to flee.[2] She was to be sentenced to a four-year imprisonment in Belgium for the crimes she had committed in that country.[3] She would later be handed over to Turkey in order to be tried for her involvement in terrorist activities within the borders of the Turkish Republic. Since her escape, Interpol has issued a red bulletin for Fehriye Erdal sending a message to its 186 member countries that she is to be captured and returned to Belgium.[4] Although there have been reports that she has been seen in Cyprus and Jordan, there is no solid information on her whereabouts."

 

Source: Wikipedia.

 

P.S. Turkish government did everything to get this fugitive back from Belgium. The Belgian government came up with excuses all the time. She mysteriously disappeared. Many other people mysteriously disappeared. Kurdish terrorist Apo was arranged passports by the Greek authorities.

Before complaining of the minorities in your country think about this: would your government allow anything that that would not be to their benefit? As a matter of fact, they can clean the country from illegals if they want to. But who knows who is making money from where and through what association. This is alway the reason why simple problems cannot be solved.

 

As for your claim about tolerant Europeans permitting mosques in their countries. Well, in Athens, there are no mosques. All of them have been destroyed or converted. In Bulgaria,many  mosques are being used as stables. All around Europe, there is an unearthly racist awareness. As Alameda explained earlier, there is a similar kind of awareness in the US too. I would not want to offend anyone here but I geniunely think this awareness think is hard coded into your culture. We can talk about a Balkan style ethnic awareness, Italian,  Spain and France form another group, there are central and European countries that make up the third group.

 

 

 

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

Reading is not your best quality, is it? I never said ALL Christians believe Jesus is the son of God. I mentioned a variety in Christianity and I said that millions do believe he is the son. You are - again, as usual - jumping to conclusions.

 

 



Edited (6/2/2009) by vineyards
Edited (6/2/2009) by vineyards
Edited (6/2/2009) by vineyards
Edited (6/2/2009) by vineyards



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

783.       vineyards
1954 posts
 02 Jun 2009 Tue 12:19 am

According to this point of view, Orthodox Christians have now been considered outside of Christian faith.

Go explain this to them. They also don´t believe Jesus is the son of God. For thousands of years and much much earlier than the Dutch, they have been thinking they are the true Christians.

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

What´s the difference? Why should I believe in your prophet? I don´t and I can mock about non-existing persons / things.

 

(About your question of not agreeing: read some more about the various sorts of Christianity and you´ll see for a large number of people he was the son of God. Don´t mistake it by the Trinity of God, Son and Holy Spirit. That´s something different but I don´t want to explain here & now, way to long and I´m not a teacher of religious topics.)

 

 



Edited (6/2/2009) by vineyards



Thread: Survey: Neighborhood pressure is rare in Turkey, but intolerance is not

784.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Jun 2009 Mon 08:01 pm

How nicely you are showing off.  I bet you are also a member of the übermensh.

Sorry to surprize you but there are tons of people here who consider these just the first step.

**********

Well, I am not wanted as a neighbour, that´s for sure: I drink once in a while alcohol, I´m irreligious, I have Christian family members and friends, I wear shorts, I´m a woman, I´m not married, I´m in favour of gay rights etc. lol lol

 

 



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

785.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Jun 2009 Mon 07:53 pm

Today, there was a Turkish day parade in Austrian capital. Turkish people living in the country marched through designated streets with Turkish flags in their hands. Such parades are meant for celebrating friendship between countries. The Austrian people harassed the group by dropping nylon bags full of water, urine and human excrement on the crowd.

 

These people must really have long toes...

Quoting Trudy

 

 

When Muslim/Turkish/Arab people mock about Christians I´ve never heard of groups in western countries demonstrating in the streets, burning flags, attacking embassies etc. People in the ´West´ shrug and think ´they´re mad´. Is it really a question of long toes?

 

 



Edited (6/1/2009) by vineyards



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

786.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Jun 2009 Mon 07:25 pm

Trudy, Catwoman,

... then we need to choose our vocabulary considerately.

Not all Turks are Islamist radicals, as a matter of fact an overwhelming majority or them are not.

Even in Iran, a lot of people are not bigots. True they suffer the consequences of a crippled vision offered to them but there it is the ruling class who are radicals.

We keep hearing this minority problem in Europe. I have confidence, it is very difficult for an illegal emmigrant to survive in Europe with all those measures and restrictions. Europe consciously imported this labor force and wanted to get rid of them after it was too late. This is not our problem; I don´t even consider the third generation of Turks as our own citizens or people. Just like there are Poles, Danes in the US, they have become a marginal community within the countries they are settled.

 

 

 



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

787.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Jun 2009 Mon 04:49 pm

Based on what you wrote we are facing yet another Jewish problem in the heart of Europe and all we need is another Hitler to tame those subhuman critters. 

 

Now that I am wrong and I don´t know those problematic countrymen of mine would you let us know the source of that poll or whatever it is that labeled an entire population and and entire religious community.

 

You never think of those people as humans don´t you? These people are men, women, children and babies just as you are.  Not all of them can be illegal in your country. They were hired by Dutch companies who sought cheap employment for positions looked down upon by your aloof countrymen. People of befitting education and background applied to those jobs and voila, we don´t want to see those toilet cleaners around. You should invest more in the robotic technology to avoid such unwanted consequences.

 

Though it is mainly your problem not ours the 1 in 16 is may look awful to you but it is probably not that way to your entrepreneurs who are playing for high stakes in the international markets. They generate a GNP far exceeding most countries on Earth increasing the standards in the country. These leaves behind some dirty work to be taken care of which could only be offered to those guest arbeiters. Apart from cleaning your toilets they entertain you by enriching your slang vocabulary. In Germany, they call those riff raff as cock roaches or black heads.  God knows how many more words you have in your beloved Dutch.

 

Wherever you look, there is racism undercover...

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

Ah yes. And to avoid the upcoming of that type of Islam and not to disturb those ´friendly´ people all others need to be quiet and shut up? I don´t think so, that would be bowing for dictatorship. Besides, if you think that type of Islam is typical for Iran c.s. you´re wrong and you don´t know your own countrymen. Loads of Islamic immigrants here (we mainly have Turks and Moroccons, around 1,1 million on a population of 16,4) responded ´Iranesque´ with cursing and deathwishes, there are quite some cells here that does not exists of people chatting about the weather and knitting sweaters.... Strange eh, that when silenced (or an attempt to) in ones own country people are suspicious and not very open anymore?

 

 



Edited (6/1/2009) by vineyards
Edited (6/1/2009) by vineyards



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

788.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Jun 2009 Mon 01:49 pm

It surely doesn´t count.  As a matter of fact, we should singularly talk about radical Islamist countries like Iran in this connection. They do not represent the whole Islam. Theirs is more like a politicized religious point of view rather than religion itself. What those artists don´t know is that they are targeting the Iran type of Islam and attacking the whole belief system which is quite ignorant to say the least.

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Stabbed not but threatened though - enough. Or doesn´t that count?

 

 



Thread: Denial versus freedom of speech

789.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Jun 2009 Mon 10:25 am

Did I miss something? Which cartoonist has recently been stabbed by Muslims?

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

I don´t have to imagine, Google graphics has thousands of political cartoons, especially not favourable ones in relation to Palestine, with Jews - somehow I haven´t heard of Jews stabbing cartoonists recently.

 

 

 



Thread: TORTURE

790.       vineyards
1954 posts
 30 May 2009 Sat 02:28 pm

By not being one of US or THEM.

By trying to see matters through others´ eyes too. 

This doesn´t apply to you only, it is true for all of us.

 

You know in the near past, some folks liked some others here just because they felt they were in the same camp. Maybe, it went unnoticed but I tried to stay away from any of these camps both criticizing and praising either side.  

 

Many contributors here see the world as black and white. Unfortunately, there are also many Turkish contributors doing that. They are doing this because they have not had much chance to get exposed to other visions (due to medieval sanction on the freedom of travelling in Europe and US.)  I know this will change in time.



Edited (5/30/2009) by vineyards



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