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Proper nouns and vowel harmony
1.       Mikealim
2 posts
 23 Aug 2007 Thu 04:09 pm

Please can someone confirm or correct this.

Is it the case that suffixes appended to a person's name are not subject to the normal rules of vowel harmony?

I see that in the basic grammar lessons on this site, in the section on Noun and Adjective Clauses, in clause 3, the phrases 'Kemal's water' and 'Kemal's daughter' are written with Kemalin/Kemal'in. Normally the letter 'i' would be of the dotless kind as Kemal is a hard word by virtue of the last vowel being an 'a'.

Does this apply to all proper nouns and names?
Also, is there a reason why the apostrophe is not present in both instances?

2.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 23 Aug 2007 Thu 04:19 pm

Quoting Mikealim:

Please can someone confirm or correct this.

Is it the case that suffixes appended to a person's name are not subject to the normal rules of vowel harmony?

I see that in the basic grammar lessons on this site, in the section on Noun and Adjective Clauses, in clause 3, the phrases 'Kemal's water' and 'Kemal's daughter' are written with Kemalin/Kemal'in. Normally the letter 'i' would be of the dotless kind as Kemal is a hard word by virtue of the last vowel being an 'a'.

Does this apply to all proper nouns and names?
Also, is there a reason why the apostrophe is not present in both instances?



1. Vowel harmony applies to all proper names. e.g. Ankara'ya, İzmir'e, İstanbul'a, Süriye'ye

2. You should normally put the ' sign. But often in emails we don't as some email programs make it look like a ?. This may be why the person wrote Kemalin.

3. Kemal is a subtle exception. It really is Kemal with a circumflex (hat) over the a. (sorry, I couldn't type this character: it is a with a ^ on top of it). But we often don't write it like that. That means you say the a as a soft a. And so it takes -in not -ın.

There are a few other words like this: for saat (hour) the second a is a soft a, so it takes -in e.g. saatiniz var mı. zeka (intelligence) is another one. I am sure there are plenty more, but they don't come to mind right now. If you check the Türk Dil Kurumu website they are shown with the correct spelling with a^.

3.       Mikealim
2 posts
 23 Aug 2007 Thu 04:29 pm

Thank you very much for your prompt and thorough reply!!

4.       Astrila
21 posts
 29 Aug 2007 Wed 10:28 pm

so is it also dükkânin kapısı?

5.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 29 Aug 2007 Wed 10:37 pm

Quoting Astrila:

so is it also dükkânin kapısı?



Both can be used sometimes.

Dükkan kapısı - Dükkanın kapısı

Both are correct.

6.       bod
5999 posts
 29 Aug 2007 Wed 10:58 pm

Quoting MarioninTurkey:

3. Kemal is a subtle exception. It really is Kemal with a circumflex (hat) over the a. (sorry, I couldn't type this character: it is a with a ^ on top of it).



If you want an English keyboard with all the Turkish characters
(â ç é ğ ı î ö ş ü û and Â Ç É Ğ İ ÃŽ Ö Ş Ãœ Û)
then I have written one that is freely available from here.

7.       egyptian_tomb
318 posts
 29 Aug 2007 Wed 11:34 pm

Quoting bod:

Quoting MarioninTurkey:

3. Kemal is a subtle exception. It really is Kemal with a circumflex (hat) over the a. (sorry, I couldn't type this character: it is a with a ^ on top of it).



If you want an English keyboard with all the Turkish characters
(â ç é ğ ı î ö ş ü û and Â Ç É Ğ İ ÃŽ Ö Ş Ãœ Û)
then I have written one that is freely available from here.



Is this compatible with Windows VISTA?

8.       bod
5999 posts
 01 Sep 2007 Sat 05:36 am

Quoting egyptian_tomb:

Quoting bod:

If you want an English keyboard with all the Turkish characters
(â ç é ğ ı î ö ş ü û and Â Ç É Ğ İ ÃŽ Ö Ş Ãœ Û)
then I have written one that is freely available from here.



Is this compatible with Windows VISTA?



I've not tested it but it should be......
Why not try it (it can't do any harm - Vista is good at rolling back) and let us all know?

9.       Astrila
21 posts
 25 Oct 2007 Thu 07:48 pm

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting Astrila:

so is it also dükkânin kapısı?



Both can be used sometimes.

Dükkan kapısı - Dükkanın kapısı

Both are correct.



What I mean is dükkan has an a with a roof but it is dükkanın not dükkanin

10.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 25 Oct 2007 Thu 11:27 pm

Quoting Astrila:

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting Astrila:

so is it also dükkânin kapısı?



Both can be used sometimes.

Dükkan kapısı - Dükkanın kapısı

Both are correct.



What I mean is dükkan has an a with a roof but it is dükkanın not dükkanin



dükkan kapısı shop door
dükkanın kapısı the door of the shop

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